Jack vs Tuch/Krebs - Has this hockey trade improved either team?

[Doohicksie]

19 hours ago, JohnC said:

Assuming Jack returns to pre-injury form Vegas will benefit more from the trade.

IF is a big two-letter word.

[nfreeman]

Wow.  So if Vegas misses the playoffs, the Sabres could end up with, say, the 14th pick from them, plus their own pick at, say, #4 or thereabouts?

I'm not going to advocate for a Sabres tank, but I sho 'nuff will root for Vegas to keep losing. 

[dudacek]

21 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Wow.  So if Vegas misses the playoffs, the Sabres could end up with, say, the 14th pick from them, plus their own pick at, say, #4 or thereabouts?

I'm not going to advocate for a Sabres tank, but I sho 'nuff will root for Vegas to keep losing. 

I can’t get my hopes up. This smacks too much of the Vanek trade and the top 5 pick that became #21.

Because Buffalo knows it will be a Vegas/Florida final this year.

[French Collection]

25 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I can’t get my hopes up. This smacks too much of the Vanek trade and the top 5 pick that became #21.

Because Buffalo knows it will be a Vegas/Florida final this year.

Ouch!

Glass 3/4 empty I see.
Jack and Sam head to head with Sam winning the Conn Smythe?

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, French Collection said:

Ouch!

Glass 3/4 empty I see.
Jack and Sam head to head with Sam winning the Conn Smythe?

Remember that year when we had the Blues 1st, and they were like last in the league at Christmas?

Good times.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Remember that year when we had the Blues 1st, and they were like last in the league at Christmas?

Good times.

Unlike the Blues trade, the 1st here is secondary to the assets already playing in Buffalo.  Tuch has become a fan favorite and Krebs has the potential to be our best playmaker. 

Thompson’s ascension to top 6 center is going a long way to rescuing the ROR trade from complete disaster to only a partial one.

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Unlike the Blues trade, the 1st here is secondary to the assets already playing in Buffalo.  Tuch has become a fan favorite and Krebs has the potential to be our best playmaker. 

Thompson’s ascension to top 6 center is going a long way to rescuing the ROR trade from complete disaster to only a partial one.

Until that first is cashed in it is definitely secondary. Really hoping for a first round exit from Vegas. 

[Flashsabre]

24 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Unlike the Blues trade, the 1st here is secondary to the assets already playing in Buffalo.  Tuch has become a fan favorite and Krebs has the potential to be our best playmaker. 

Thompson’s ascension to top 6 center is going a long way to rescuing the ROR trade from complete disaster to only a partial one.

Wait til Ryan Johnson plays. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Wait til Ryan Johnson plays. 

He isn’t here and he really doesn’t have an easy road to PT in Buffalo.  Dahlin, Power and Samuelsson are all standing in his way.  On right, Jokiharju is locked up, Bryson seems to be finding his way on his off side and Fitz adds a feistiness that this team needs and DG likes.  Johnson’s best bet is to move to his offside in Rochester and try to beat out Fitz or Bryson in a season or two.

Edited March 4, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[GASabresIUFAN]

16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Until that first is cashed in it is definitely secondary. Really hoping for a first round exit from Vegas. 

That would be great.  I also wouldn’t mind them barely missing the playoffs and having the 15th or 16th pick.  Given our luck, their pick will be 29th and the Florida pick 30th.  KA also better not pull a TM and trade away two of these picks.  

[North Buffalo]

Is it a bad thing if that pick slides to next year given depth of next year's draft?

[LGR4GM]

33 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Is it a bad thing if that pick slides to next year given depth of next year's draft?

Nope. Would love it. 

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He isn’t here and he really doesn’t have an easy road to PT in Buffalo.  Dahlin, Power and Samuelsson are all standing in his way.  On right, Jokiharju is locked up, Bryson seems to be finding his way on his off side and Fitz adds a feistiness that this team needs and DG likes.  Johnson’s best bet is to move to his offside in Rochester and try to beat out Fitz or Bryson in a season or two.

He plays the right side regularly for Minnesota and is a better dman than either Bryson or Fitz.

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, French Collection said:

Ouch!

Glass 3/4 empty I see.
Jack and Sam head to head with Sam winning the Conn Smythe?

We are Sabres fans after the past decade.  A glass half full looks 3/4 empty to us.

[Doohicksie]

On 3/4/2022 at 10:28 AM, French Collection said:

Jack and Sam head to head with Sam winning the Conn Smythe?

I would actually enjoy this.

Could you imagine Sam dropping the gloves with Eichel???

[pi2000]

On 3/4/2022 at 10:23 AM, Flashsabre said:

He plays the right side regularly for Minnesota and is a better dman than either Bryson or Fitz.

Until he plays in the NHL we don't this to be true.

[Pimlach]

On 3/4/2022 at 11:17 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

He isn’t here and he really doesn’t have an easy road to PT in Buffalo.  Dahlin, Power and Samuelsson are all standing in his way.  On right, Jokiharju is locked up, Bryson seems to be finding his way on his off side and Fitz adds a feistiness that this team needs and DG likes.  Johnson’s best bet is to move to his offside in Rochester and try to beat out Fitz or Bryson in a season or two.

This is the right way which is not the easy way.  Johnson should play a full year in Rochester, maybe a bit more.  He is definitely a good prospect to play in the NHL and it would not be a surprise to see him pass Bryson or Fitz at some point   

[dudacek]

Expectations are a funny thing.

His play this winter has changed things, but lack of hype over Power last summer and fall seemed unprecedented for a 1st overall pick. I think it can be explained by a fan base tired of being falsely told some kid was going to save them.

I wonder if the same thing is a factor with Ryan Johnson and Isak Rosen. I can’t recall a pair of 1st rounders being less talked up. Compare them to a young Mark Pysyk or Drew Stafford, who were very similar-level prospects.

[Thorner]

29 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Expectations are a funny thing.

His play this winter has changed things, but lack of hype over Power last summer and fall seemed unprecedented for a 1st overall pick. I think it can be explained by a fan base tired of being falsely told some kid was going to save them.

I wonder if the same thing is a factor with Ryan Johnson and Isak Rosen. I can’t recall a pair of 1st rounders being less talked up. Compare them to a young Mark Pysyk or Drew Stafford, who were very similar-level prospects.

It also comes down to raw, flashy, statistical totals. There are 10 times the posts about guys like Josh Bloom, Tyson Kozak, guys like that (inferior prospects to Rosen) because the leagues they are playing in right now lend themselves to point totals and posting material. 

While I think you explain the Power phenomenon accurately, I think the Rosen stuff also comes down to the league he’s playing in 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Thorny

[Curt]

On 3/4/2022 at 1:23 PM, Flashsabre said:

He plays the right side regularly for Minnesota and is a better dman than either Bryson or Fitz.

 

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

Until he plays in the NHL we don't this to be true.

Yeah, I have to agree.  You are entitled to your own predictions, but this is no where near proven.  We’ll see how he does in the AHL next season and go from there.

[fiftyone]

Bit of a change of subject here but didn't want to start a new thread re: Jack.

When do we think it'll be fair to decide whether or not the Sabres were "right" or "wrong" with their medical stance on Jack's surgery? Are they already wrong because he got his surgery and is playing now? Will it take some time to determine if this surgery does indeed cause him problems down the line?

I'm not all that familiar with the differences of the two surgeries, but curious on thoughts here.

Edited March 9, 2022 by fiftyone

[MattPie]

7 minutes ago, fiftyone said:

Bit of a change of subject here but didn't want to start a new thread re: Jack.

When do we think it'll be fair to decide whether or not the Sabres were "right" or "wrong" with their medical stance on Jack's surgery? Are they already wrong because he got his surgery and is playing now? Will it take some time to determine if this surgery does indeed cause him problems down the line?

I'm not all that familiar with the differences of the two surgeries, but curious on thoughts here.

Interesting question. I think any retirement before 37-38 years old and/or long LITR periods, the Sabres may have been right (for neck-related injuries). If Jack never hits 20 goals / 60 points again maybe. Otherwise, the risk was still too great and it's nice that Jack found someone that would gamble on it. I don't really blame the Sabres for their position, nor do a really blame Jack since it's his body and career. Just a crap situation all around.

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, fiftyone said:

Bit of a change of subject here but didn't want to start a new thread re: Jack.

When do we think it'll be fair to decide whether or not the Sabres were "right" or "wrong" with their medical stance on Jack's surgery? Are they already wrong because he got his surgery and is playing now? Will it take some time to determine if this surgery does indeed cause him problems down the line?

I'm not all that familiar with the differences of the two surgeries, but curious on thoughts here.

This is an issue where it isn't so much about being right or wrong as it is about making judgments about the data you have on hand. Each side sought medical opinions from a variety of sources. And both sides used respective medical sources. And another issue is that the perspective of this particular player differed from the perspective of an organization. This medical conflict also had the additional complication that the player desperately wanted out. What it came down to is that the parties had different interests in a complicated medical situation. In the end each of the parties got a result that they can live with.  

[Porous Five Hole]

I would use hindsight at the conclusion of his current contract, so the conclusion of the 25-26 season.  He was under team control until that point. 

[fiftyone]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

This is an issue where it isn't so much about being right or wrong as it is about making judgments about the data you have on hand. Each side sought medical opinions from a variety of sources. And both sides used respective medical sources. And another issue is that the perspective of this particular player differed from the perspective of an organization. This medical conflict also had the additional complication that the player desperately wanted out. What it came down to is that the parties had different interests in a complicated medical situation. In the end each of the parties got a result that they can live with.  

Agree that you can make the "correct" decision and still end up being wrong (hitting on 15 in blackjack vs a 10, for example). 

Still, my question is around when it would be fair to litigate that decision from the Sabres perspective. Agree on everything else.