JujuFish Posted March 25, 2022 Report Posted March 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: Losing Bates would be a low-key big event this offseason. Saffold has his warts and they have nobody to trust with the protection of their 250mil QB behind him at G. I'll be surprised if we let him go. Is there word on how much Chicago offered?
Randall Flagg Posted March 25, 2022 Report Posted March 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, JujuFish said: I'll be surprised if we let him go. Is there word on how much Chicago offered? I haven't looked, I only saw that they gave him an offer.
Buffalonill Posted March 26, 2022 Report Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) Its been a crazy offseason with star WR getting moved including my team .. could your guy be planning a carr like reunion ? Edited March 26, 2022 by Buffalonill
WildCard Posted March 26, 2022 Report Posted March 26, 2022 He wants a contract extension. I seriously doubt he goes and plays second fiddle to Lamb, or that Dallas can afford him with paying Zeke because Jerry thinks it's 1992 and Emmit Smith is wearing the star
LGR4GM Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 24 minutes ago, Brawndo said: What could 850million fund in Erie County? Probably after school programs and education to help urban kids but nahhhhh let's buy rich people a pleasure palace they can show off to other rich ppl. Bread and circuses. I'm over it. Was always going to go down this way. 1
inkman Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: What could 850million fund in Erie County? Probably after school programs and education to help urban kids but nahhhhh let's buy rich people a pleasure palace they can show off to other rich ppl. Bread and circuses. I'm over it. Was always going to go down this way. As Bobby Knight told Connie Chung, just sit back and enjoy it.
Buffalonill Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 On 3/26/2022 at 3:40 PM, WildCard said: He wants a contract extension. I seriously doubt he goes and plays second fiddle to Lamb, or that Dallas can afford him with paying Zeke because Jerry thinks it's 1992 and Emmit Smith is wearing the star I don't think its smart signing him to a contract extension buffalo should trade him Next year after you guys win the Super Bowl
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 1 hour ago, LGR4GM said: What could 850million fund in Erie County? Probably after school programs and education to help urban kids but nahhhhh let's buy rich people a pleasure palace they can show off to other rich ppl. Bread and circuses. I'm over it. Was always going to go down this way. Not a single $ is going to be taken away from your coveted social programs. The county will float $850 in muni bonds. These bonds will be sold primarily to insurance companies, mutual funds and pension funds. The interest on the bonds will come from the Bills and stadium revenue. Using the county’s ability to access the muni bond market just makes the project more efficient and cost effective. It is much harder for PGE to raise the money on it’s own. 1
nfreeman Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Not a single $ is going to be taken away from your coveted social programs. The county will float $850 in muni bonds. These bonds will be sold primarily to insurance companies, mutual funds and pension funds. The interest on the bonds will come from the Bills and stadium revenue. Using the county’s ability to access the muni bond market just makes the project more efficient and cost effective. It is much harder for PGE to raise the money on it’s own. Well, regardless of how the county is raising the money, the fact remains that in selling the bonds they are taking out a huge amount of debt and using the proceeds of the debt to fund the stadium -- as opposed to funding other things, or even not borrowing and spending the money at all. 5
tom webster Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Well, regardless of how the county is raising the money, the fact remains that in selling the bonds they are taking out a huge amount of debt and using the proceeds of the debt to fund the stadium -- as opposed to funding other things, or even not borrowing and spending the money at all. Again, I understand the numbers and wish no public money went to fund any private industry but the fact remains there is tangible financial benefit to having a team here and there are obviously intangible benefits as well. Whether it’s worth $850M, that is a matter of opinion and like most opinions and most people, nothing is going to change said person’s original opinion.
MattPie Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 20 minutes ago, tom webster said: Again, I understand the numbers and wish no public money went to fund any private industry but the fact remains there is tangible financial benefit to having a team here and there are obviously intangible benefits as well. Whether it’s worth $850M, that is a matter of opinion and like most opinions and most people, nothing is going to change said person’s original opinion. Well put. There is a benefit to having the team here. I definitely don't think it's worth putting $850M into a stadium across the street from the existing field. At the end of all this, it'll just be status quo. I could almost see it if they put it downtown as a revitalization project to bring more people there.
LGR4GM Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 54 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Not a single $ is going to be taken away from your coveted social programs. The county will float $850 in muni bonds. These bonds will be sold primarily to insurance companies, mutual funds and pension funds. The interest on the bonds will come from the Bills and stadium revenue. Using the county’s ability to access the muni bond market just makes the project more efficient and cost effective. It is much harder for PGE to raise the money on it’s own. Man, calling education and after school programs "your coveted social programs" is a hell of a statement. 41 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Well, regardless of how the county is raising the money, the fact remains that in selling the bonds they are taking out a huge amount of debt and using the proceeds of the debt to fund the stadium -- as opposed to funding other things, or even not borrowing and spending the money at all. Feels odd to agree with you but here we are. 27 minutes ago, tom webster said: Again, I understand the numbers and wish no public money went to fund any private industry but the fact remains there is tangible financial benefit to having a team here and there are obviously intangible benefits as well. Whether it’s worth $850M, that is a matter of opinion and like most opinions and most people, nothing is going to change said person’s original opinion. There's almost no tangible financial benefit and multiple studies over the years show that. Last one I think was in 2014. Sure, there's assuredly an intangible benefit and yes I'm glad the Bills will be here going forward. Just commenting on the reality is all. 2
That Aud Smell Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Sure, there's assuredly an intangible benefit and yes I'm glad the Bills will be here going forward. Just commenting on the reality is all. it is odious, at best.
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Man, calling education and after school programs "your coveted social programs" is a hell of a statement. Feels odd to agree with you but here we are. There's almost no tangible financial benefit and multiple studies over the years show that. Last one I think was in 2014. Sure, there's assuredly an intangible benefit and yes I'm glad the Bills will be here going forward. Just commenting on the reality is all. 47 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Well, regardless of how the county is raising the money, the fact remains that in selling the bonds they are taking out a huge amount of debt and using the proceeds of the debt to fund the stadium -- as opposed to funding other things, or even not borrowing and spending the money at all. Whether to have the Bills or not or to build them a stadium or not is a question for the people of Erie County. It doesn’t change the fact that this is a non-issue to the taxpayers as they will not bear this burden. Counties also generally don’t issue debt to fund programming. They are mostly funded with sales tax revenue and RE taxes. Most county debt is revenue type bonds issued to build schools, hospitals, water systems etc…. and these stadium bonds will not limit Erie’s ability to do these projects as well. Saying that this $850 mill could be diverted to other things is simply untrue. This money is only being raised for the stadium and if they weren’t building the stadium the bonds wouldn’t be issued at all.
WildCard Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 So same parking lot, same stadium, just with upgraded amenities? 1
MattPie Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Not a single $ is going to be taken away from your coveted social programs. The county will float $850 in muni bonds. These bonds will be sold primarily to insurance companies, mutual funds and pension funds. The interest on the bonds will come from the Bills and stadium revenue. 53 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: (SNIP Funding for local stuff with sales tax, etc) Saying that this $850 mill could be diverted to other things is simply untrue. This money is only being raised for the stadium and if they weren’t building the stadium the bonds wouldn’t be issued at all. So what you're saying is if the stadium was privately funded, the revenue from the Bills and related stadium events wouldn't have to go towards paying back interest and loans and could be used to other priorities? It's not like the revenue would go away if the public didn't fund the stadium and it got built using loans or whatever other other means the private entities have. Edited March 28, 2022 by MattPie Keep the bolded in above the fold
That Aud Smell Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, WildCard said: So same parking lot, same stadium, just with upgraded amenities? Certainly not the same (or even a similar) stadium. It's interesting that the $1.4B cost is the upfront number, and the state/county share of that is $850M. It's been reported that the State has ongoing capital improvement and maintenance costs that take the public share north of $1B, over time.
WildCard Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 Just now, That Aud Smell said: Certainly not the same (or even a similar) stadium. Well that's what I'm asking: Is the new stadium essentially the same (appearance, functionality, location) with just upgrades or is there something different/unique about it compared to the Ralph (bowl design, window features, bleacher seats, etc)
WildCard Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 60-62k seats compared to the ~72k the Ralph currently holds. That's a travesty.
MattPie Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, WildCard said: 60-62k seats compared to the ~72k the Ralph currently holds. That's a travesty. 10-15k fewer people driving out to OP and generating revenue. Which I'm not even sure that happens with The Bills as much as other places. Baltimore, Philadelphia, etc. play in the city, so people have an opportunity to do something else before or after the game. There's *nothing* around the Ralph last I checked, and I'm not sure this is going to change that.
Randall Flagg Posted March 28, 2022 Report Posted March 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, WildCard said: 60-62k seats compared to the ~72k the Ralph currently holds. That's a travesty. Didn't they have trouble selling out the Pats playoff game? I know it was cold, but as the season gets longer, a higher percentage of games are going to be cold winter games. Vegas also has a smaller number of seats than you might expect. I think this is the general trend, because people enjoy watching football on tv with their family & friends. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about the sport, and have a much tougher time watching live and telling what's going on than at home - I often can't tell if a run was 0 yards or 5, forget about judging first downs. The atmosphere makes it worth one trip a year, but on TV my buddies and I can break stuff down and argue strategy etc. in real time, the football aspect of the experience is far deeper this way. The only improvement live IMO is being able to see entire route concepts develop
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