Be the GM and get us to the cap floor next year

[ddaryl]

25 minutes ago, Cage said:

All I can say is thank God we paid Skinner $9m/year

JBot was just planning ahead.... 

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, Cage said:

All I can say is thank God we paid Skinner $9m/year

All GM’s screw up along the way. Some more than others. Skinner was definitely JB’s biggest contract blunder. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

All GM’s screw up along the way. Some more than others. Skinner was definitely JB’s biggest contract blunder. 

Would definitely say it was his more glaring one.

Still believe not offering Reinhart a LT deal when he gave Eichel his was a bigger mistake.  Considering how that decision cascaded, IMHO a case can be made to that effect.

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

All GM’s screw up along the way. Some more than others. Skinner was definitely JB’s biggest contract blunder. 

Hadn’t heard about Jeff’s contract being an issue before. Interesting. 
 

[thewookie1]

If that NBA player hadn’t touched all the mics in his post game before being said to have COVID; and the Sabres beat Montreal that night, Eichel and Reinhart are still here and we no longer have a long playoff drought. After all, Botts wouldn’t of been fired when we went into COVID break and with this Reinhart likely gets a legitimate extension and Eichel doesn’t bail. 
 

Perhaps in 3 years Reinhart will triumphantly return to Buffalo as a vet to help put us into legitimate Cup Contention

Edited February 22, 2022 by thewookie1

[Weave]

6 minutes ago, inkman said:

Hadn’t heard about Jeff’s contract being an issue before. Interesting. 
 

 

Yeah, I don’t know how you can be upset at Skinner’s contract when it has harmed us in absolutely no way.  The only one harmed is Pegula’s wallet and I certainly don’t give a damn about that.

[Huckleberry]

One city in huge cap trouble next year.  Vegas, we can easily get 2 vets and relieve them from 10 million they need.

The Eichel trade will be a gift that keeps on giving for us.

[Brawndo]

42 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Would definitely say it was his more glaring one.

Still believe not offering Reinhart a LT deal when he gave Eichel his was a bigger mistake.  Considering how that decision cascaded, IMHO a case can be made to that effect.

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

One city in huge cap trouble next year.  Vegas, we can easily get 2 vets and relieve them from 10 million they need.

The Eichel trade will be a gift that keeps on giving for us.

Who do you want?

[Huckleberry]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Who do you want?

Theodore + the other one will be a cap dump bringing his price down.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Huckleberry

[Thorner]

On 2/22/2022 at 8:08 AM, Flashsabre said:

That is $22 million just to get to the floor. How do you spend the money?

Goalie has got to be number one priority. An NHL proven solid starter. I don’t mind term if it is a great fit. I’m not convinced UPL is the heir apparent and Levi and Portillo will need time before we know where they stand at the NHL level.

A RHD that can play top 4 is second. Either signing or trade but someone reliable that can play at a high level and be a mentor for Power.

Many people won’t like this but I wonder if a perfect storm is brewing if Chicago and Patrick Kane decide to part ways. If he wants to finally come home to end his career. He will have 2 years left at $10.5 per, money the Sabres could use for the cap.  The deal would only work for me if we take all the cap in exchange for not giving up any of our core young pieces for a 33 year old winger. We would have to add the goalie and dman first to show Kane we could be competitive. Not likely to happen but food for thought.

How would you spend the money?

A “nice development year” 

lol

[Thorner]

On 2/22/2022 at 12:33 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

I couldn't agree more with the bolded, but I just don't see KA being aggressive.  I see him being patient to let the kids development determine what he needs to do.  His patience was rewarded on the Eichel deal, but has failed us in goal. He let the Eichel situation drag on until he got what he wanted, but wasn't wise enough to get adequate insure for the failed Ullmark deal and the fact UPL wasn't ready.  Tuch, Krebs and a 1st is a core creating decision, while the goaltending fail has lead to the corrosive losing culture.  

I believe KA wants next season to be evaluation of the kids year 2.  I think he'll stick with the status quo until forced to do otherwise.  I'm not sure I disagree with the general approach at this point.  I want to see what a Skinner, Mitts, Cozens, Thompson, Krebs, Quinn, Tuch, JJP, Dahlin, Samuelsson and Power core do before making anyone big moves.   Subtle to the watch word for me this off-season.

I continue to be struck by how much this team is reminding me of the Drury/Briere teams.  I see Tuch as the Drury type leader who instilled that losing is no longer acceptable.  I see Okposo as the Grier type lockerroom leader and Krebs as Tim Connolly.   I see a huge influx of kids coming up from the minors (Quinn, Samuelsson, JJP and UPL) to assume huge roles in one season like Roy, Vanek, Pommers and Milller did. What I'm looking for now is the Teppo Numminen type D leader that helps all the kids on D become their best selves.  (I also wouldn't mind finding a undervalued player like Toni Lydman).

 

We are in the bottom 10 of the league for goals scored. The regular season and the other NHL teams in this league provided the evaluation for us. He should feel “forced to do otherwise”. It doesn’t need to be big moves, but acting like the forwards are an appropriate status quo is laughable

I actually am somewhat dumbfounded all indications are we’re all ready to settle in for another evaluation year. 

I get it, not needing to be disappointed by losing feels nice. 

- - - 

The Briere and Drury team finished out the season played prior to 05/06 winning games. We aren’t winning games - the comparison falls flat. We were winning games before the Rochester kids were added. Quinn and JJ are going to be Vanek and Pominville? Who’s Briere? Briere was a top 10 scorer. Who’s Roy? 

Once we start winning games, maybe then we can start making comparisons to....one of the greatest Sabres team of all time. Yeesh.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Thorny

[Thorner]

In 03-04 before the Rochester influx, the Sabres were 18-9-5 in their final 32 games. 

That’s a 105 point pace

The Sabres aren’t going to continue stinking up the joint for the rest of the season, add Jack Quinn JJ Peterka and Owen Power and magically become one of the best Sabres team of all time in a year or two. It does not work like that.

You know where the 03-04 Sabres finished for goal scoring league wide? 10th. Right now we are 24th.

On a strict draft development approach, if every prospect maxes out, the process is YEARS further away from potential success than people realize. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Thorny

[Thorner]

20 hours ago, Taro T said:

Would definitely say it was his more glaring one.

Still believe not offering Reinhart a LT deal when he gave Eichel his was a bigger mistake.  Considering how that decision cascaded, IMHO a case can be made to that effect.

Skinner’s deal is probably worse IMO because the bridge to Reinhart could have been remedied by the next GM, but Skinner was locked in

Edited February 23, 2022 by Thorny

[dudacek]

I think next year Adams is kinda committed to 10 forwards:

• Thompson, Mittelstadt, Cozens and Krebs as his top 6 centre hopefuls
• the odd men out of the above, plus Skinner, Tuch and Quinn in his top 9.
• Asplund, Girgensons and Okposo in the bottom 6

So I’m really interested in how he plans on filling the the last few spots, and how Olofsson and Peterka fit.

Skinner Thompson Tuch

Cozens Mitts Okposo Krebs Quinn ???

Cozens Mitts Okposo Krebs Quinn ???

Asplund Girgenson Okposo ???

I wonder if they aren’t best off giving Olofson’s role to Quinn and spending a big chunk on bringing in a warrior/matchup type to the middle-six, kinda an approximation to Chris Drury.

Edited February 23, 2022 by dudacek

[Taro T]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Skinner’s deal is probably worse IMO because the bridge to Reinhart could have been remedied by the next GM, but Skinner was locked in

And Skinner's deal actually is bizarrely beneficial this season as it and the Boychuk deal get the Sabres to the cap floor.  It'll almost definitely help in that regard the next 2 years and possibly even the next 3 years.  The last seasons are likely the only ones where it caused a tangible effect on the lineup.  And it won't likely cause any tangible effects until at least the summer of '24.  And even that might be mitigated if the cap is rising again.

Plus, Botterill walked 1 of the bridges right into the Summer of COVID.  Literally just dumb bad luck, but not as sure that Adams could do a proper extension w/ Sam that summer with all the uncertainty about the owners' cash flows.  Maybe it could've gotten done, but a LT deal that summer would've been tough for ownership to swallow MHO.

BUT if Reinhart were signed for the same term as Eichel, does Jack bring his concerns to Adams/ownership upon Kevyn's hiring?  Likely not because he knows they aren't going to willingly walk away from both Tankfruits coming out of COVID.  Adams' calculus might change as well knowing that if he does trade Eichel, now Sam needs to go as well.  It definitely changes the dynamics at a minimum.  And that's just looking at differences under Adams.  Likely things are different under Botterill as well.

[dudacek]

Effectively, trading Olofsson, cap space and futures for a guy who adds some of the elements the top 9 most lacks - experience, battle, 2-way play - Andrew Copp, maybe?

Edited February 23, 2022 by dudacek

[Thorner]

43 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And Skinner's deal actually is bizarrely beneficial this season as it and the Boychuk deal get the Sabres to the cap floor.  It'll almost definitely help in that regard the next 2 years and possibly even the next 3 years.  The last seasons are likely the only ones where it caused a tangible effect on the lineup.  And it won't likely cause any tangible effects until at least the summer of '24.  And even that might be mitigated if the cap is rising again.

Plus, Botterill walked 1 of the bridges right into the Summer of COVID.  Literally just dumb bad luck, but not as sure that Adams could do a proper extension w/ Sam that summer with all the uncertainty about the owners' cash flows.  Maybe it could've gotten done, but a LT deal that summer would've been tough for ownership to swallow MHO.

BUT if Reinhart were signed for the same term as Eichel, does Jack bring his concerns to Adams/ownership upon Kevyn's hiring?  Likely not because he knows they aren't going to willingly walk away from both Tankfruits coming out of COVID.  Adams' calculus might change as well knowing that if he does trade Eichel, now Sam needs to go as well.  It definitely changes the dynamics at a minimum.  And that's just looking at differences under Adams.  Likely things are different under Botterill as well.

Because the team is so bad / chose for the current and coming seasons to not be about winning doesn’t change the fact the deal itself was objectively terrible. And this is coming from probably Skinner’s only backer last season.

 

The hypotheticals here are vast. 

If Reino gets a fat deal before he earned it, does he become the same player he is? 

Reinhart was a full two years out from UFA. I have a hard time believing he couldn’t have been locked up (with something he’d deem fair - he said as much that he was open to a LT deal) if they’d have offered him something reasonable beyond the 1 year bridge they did.

Adams bridged him because he wanted his rebuild. He wanted his rebuild from when he first came aboard. Adams didn’t think that Hall year would work, even as he was assembling the pieces to get it together - he didn’t want the long term Reinhart deal on the books 

It’s a big miss 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

We are in the bottom 10 of the league for goals scored. The regular season and the other NHL teams in this league provided the evaluation for us. He should feel “forced to do otherwise”. It doesn’t need to be big moves, but acting like the forwards are an appropriate status quo is laughable

I actually am somewhat dumbfounded all indications are we’re all ready to settle in for another evaluation year. 

I get it, not needing to be disappointed by losing feels nice. 

- - - 

The Briere and Drury team finished out the season played prior to 05/06 winning games. We aren’t winning games - the comparison falls flat. We were winning games before the Rochester kids were added. Quinn and JJ are going to be Vanek and Pominville? Who’s Briere? Briere was a top 10 scorer. Who’s Roy? 

Once we start winning games, maybe then we can start making comparisons to....one of the greatest Sabres team of all time. Yeesh.

 

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

In 03-04 before the Rochester influx, the Sabres were 18-9-5 in their final 32 games. 

That’s a 105 point pace

The Sabres aren’t going to continue stinking up the joint for the rest of the season, add Jack Quinn JJ Peterka and Owen Power and magically become one of the best Sabres team of all time in a year or two. It does not work like that.

You know where the 03-04 Sabres finished for goal scoring league wide? 10th. Right now we are 24th.

On a strict draft development approach, if every prospect maxes out, the process is YEARS further away from potential success than people realize. 

Dude, take a breath.  I agree that the 03/04 team took a major step forward at the end of that year.  I already posted in another thread that I wanted KA to be a buyer at the deadline to improve the D and goaltending to help the team turn a similar corner this season.  

I was posting earlier how I think things will play out in KA land.  I also admit that there aren't perfect parallels with the Briere/Drury teams, I think we are headed in a very similar direction.  Obviously we don't have a Teppo, Lydman, Miller or even a Biron.  However this new group with Power and Dahlin are considerably more talented then Campbell and Kalinin and I think the forwards project similarly.

Max -JJP - Similar style player. Obviously Max was already proven by 2005, but was a 30-40 pt player in 7 of his 9 years in Buffalo

Drury - Tuch - Drury was mostly a 25gt 35a guy.  Tuch is outpacing those numbers with a bigger role here then in LV, but brings similar leadership

Kotalik - VO - I think VO is a better player, but Kotalik at his best was a 20g 22 assist kind of guy.

Briere - Thompson - Briere was awesome in 06/07 w 95 points but otherwise  in his prime was a 30 goal 40 to 50 assist guy.  Danny was 25 when he broke out in 2003.  Thompson is on pace for 30 goals and 30 assists at 24. 

Connolly - Krebs  - Tim was 20 when he came to the Sabres in 2001  and for his career was a near 1 to 3 goals to assists scoring about 45-55 pts per season.  His peak was as a nearly pt a game player at 27.  I think Krebs is a very similar player with 6a and 9 pts in 17 NHL games with the Sabres as a 20 year old rookie.

Roy - Mittelstadt  - In his prime Roy was a 25-30g, 40-45 assist guy.  Mitts clearly has similar potential if he can stay health.

Vanek - Skinner - g/gp career - Vanek .36; Skinner .35

Hecht - Girgensons - Hecht is obviously the better player, but Hecht was a hard nosed player who could play up and down the lineup and all 3 forward positions.  Z is the same but his hands aren't nearly as good.

Gaustad - ???

Pominville - Quinn - Obviously Quinn is completely unproven.  However Pommers made the NHL full time at 22 and once there was a consistent 65 to 80 pts player for us with 20-30 goals per season.  Pommers in his last full AHL season put up 30g 38a in 78 games.  Quinn ytd at 19 has 18g 35pts in only 24 games with 2 pts in 2 NHL games.  Just imagine how good this kid will be at 22.  

Grier - Okposo - KO is the better player.

Mair - Murray?

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

Dude, take a breath.  I agree that the 03/04 team took a major step forward at the end of that year.  I already posted in another thread that I wanted KA to be a buyer at the deadline to improve the D and goaltending to help the team turn a similar corner this season.  

I was posting earlier how I think things will play out in KA land.  I also admit that there aren't perfect parallels with the Briere/Drury teams, I think we are headed in a very similar direction.  Obviously we don't have a Teppo, Lydman, Miller or even a Biron.  However this new group with Power and Dahlin are considerably more talented then Campbell and Kalinin and I think the forwards project similarly.

Max -JJP - Similar style player. Obviously Max was already proven by 2005, but was a 30-40 pt player in 7 of his 9 years in Buffalo

Drury - Tuch - Drury was mostly a 25gt 35a guy.  Tuch is outpacing those numbers with a bigger role here then in LV, but brings similar leadership

Kotalik - VO - I think VO is a better player, but Kotalik at his best was a 20g 22 assist kind of guy.

Briere - Thompson - Briere was awesome in 06/07 w 95 points but otherwise  in his prime was a 30 goal 40 to 50 assist guy.  Danny was 25 when he broke out in 2003.  Thompson is on pace for 30 goals and 30 assists at 24. 

Connolly - Krebs  - Tim was 20 when he came to the Sabres in 2001  and for his career was a near 1 to 3 goals to assists scoring about 45-55 pts per season.  His peak was as a nearly pt a game player at 27.  I think Krebs is a very similar player.

Roy - Mittelstadt  - In his prime Roy was a 25-30g, 40-45 assist guy.  Mitts clearly has similar potential if he can stay health.

Vanek - Skinner - g/gp career - Vanek .36; Skinner .35

Hecht - Girgensons - Hecht is obviously the better player, but Hecht was a hard nosed player who could play up and down the lineup and all 3 forward positions.  Z is the same but his hands aren't nearly as good.

Gaustad - ???

Pominville - Quinn - Obviously Quinn is completely unproven.  However Pommers made the NHL full time at 22 and once there was a consistent 65 to 80 pts player for us with 20-30 goals per season.  Pommers in his last full AHL season put up 30g 38a in 78 games.  Quinn ytd at 19 has 18g 35pts in only 24 games with 2 pts in 2 NHL games.  Just imagine how good this kid will be at 22.  

Grier - Okposo - KO is the better player.

Mair - Murray?

 

Dude - it rankles my feathers when we are comparing a roster that’s so far amounted to Jack sh*t Jack Eichel or not to one of the greatest if not THE greatest Sabres team we’ve ever seen.  Can we at least win 3 games in a row first? Win at all? Settle down. 

You posted a “Fire Kevyn Adams” thread within a month or two of a “this team is giving me 05-06 vibes” post. 

Make it make sense.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

50 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Dude - it rankles my feathers when we are comparing a roster that’s so far amounted to Jack sh*t Jack Eichel or not to one of the greatest if not THE greatest Sabres team we’ve ever seen.  Can we at least win 3 games in a row first? Win at all? Settle down. 

You posted a “Fire Kevyn Adams” thread within a month or two of a “this team is giving me 05-06 vibes” post. 

Make it make sense.

KA's failure to address the goaltending has been the biggest issue with this club.  I believe had we had adequate goaltending this team would have already turned the corner.  The stats support this conclusion.  For the last two years in games they received good goaltending, they play at a playoff level pace.  That is where the comparison to 2005/06 has the biggest hole.  That team had Miller and Biron.  We have nothing.  Even in 2003/4 the combo of Biron and Noronen had a gaa of 2.54.  Our goaltending mess this season is allowing 3.55 ga/gp for 28th in the NHL. 

What made the 2005/06 team so good  on offense was balanced scoring where 10 forwards have 16-30 goals including 6 with 20 plus for a 3.37 gf/gp.  Our current squad's goals for per game of 2.67 (23rd in the NHL) looks anemic, but is nearly identical to the 2003/4 2.68.

When you dig deeper the offense's potential become clearer.  Mitts and Tuch missed most of the season so far with injuries and we have been forced to play Hayden, Bjork, Caggiula, Eakin and Jankowski consistently which has severely limited the offense. On the positive's, Skinner and Thompson are on pace for 30 goals each, Cozens and KO for 20 each with Tuch on a 25 goal pace.  Now add full years of Mitts, Krebs, Quinn and possible a healthy VO and you have 9 guys who have the talent to score 20 or more (including 5 guys who have already scored at that level or better) in the NHL. 

Unless we fixed the goaltending and get better defensively, a blooming offense won't make a difference except for in entertainment value.  However if KA manages to fix those issues, this team will turn around and quickly just like we did late in 2003/4.

Edited February 23, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[sweetlou]

my take on TDL and off season

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/3081594

[Buffalonill]

14 hours ago, sweetlou said:

my take on TDL and off season

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/3081594

Those players would never wave for buffalo 🙁

 

[nfreeman]

19 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think next year Adams is kinda committed to 10 forwards:

• Thompson, Mittelstadt, Cozens and Krebs as his top 6 centre hopefuls
• the odd men out of the above, plus Skinner, Tuch and Quinn in his top 9.
• Asplund, Girgensons and Okposo in the bottom 6

So I’m really interested in how he plans on filling the the last few spots, and how Olofsson and Peterka fit.

Skinner Thompson Tuch

Cozens Mitts Okposo Krebs Quinn ???

Cozens Mitts Okposo Krebs Quinn ???

Asplund Girgenson Okposo ???

I wonder if they aren’t best off giving Olofson’s role to Quinn and spending a big chunk on bringing in a warrior/matchup type to the middle-six, kinda an approximation to Chris Drury.

On paper/screen this is interesting but IRL not likely I'm afraid.  I don't think anyone will give them anything for a clearly injury-diminished VO and I don't think any decent FA will sign here after yet another bottom-5 (and maybe bottom-3) finish.

 

[dudacek]

I wonder if the Canucks would give us Tyler Myers for a 3rd rounder or less?

They are about to launch a rebuild and need to clear cap space.

Cap hit of $6 million for 2 more years, RHD. He’s 32 now and having a decent year.

Setting aside his Buffalo baggage, he’d tick a lot of boxes for us and would be an interesting partner for Power.