Be the GM and get us to the cap floor next year

[Flashsabre]

That is $22 million just to get to the floor. How do you spend the money?

Goalie has got to be number one priority. An NHL proven solid starter. I don’t mind term if it is a great fit. I’m not convinced UPL is the heir apparent and Levi and Portillo will need time before we know where they stand at the NHL level.

A RHD that can play top 4 is second. Either signing or trade but someone reliable that can play at a high level and be a mentor for Power.

Many people won’t like this but I wonder if a perfect storm is brewing if Chicago and Patrick Kane decide to part ways. If he wants to finally come home to end his career. He will have 2 years left at $10.5 per, money the Sabres could use for the cap.  The deal would only work for me if we take all the cap in exchange for not giving up any of our core young pieces for a 33 year old winger. We would have to add the goalie and dman first to show Kane we could be competitive. Not likely to happen but food for thought.

How would you spend the money?

[JoeSchmoe]

13 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

The deal would only work for me if we take all the cap in exchange for not giving up any of our core young pieces for a 33 year old winger.

Is there any reason why Chicago does this deal, especially since we have nothing but core young pieces to offer? 

Given we don't want to give up core young pieces, and teams don't give away good players for nothing, this is probably just pie in the sky.

I get it though... seeing another good home town guy like Tuch would be pretty cool. The only way Kane would ever make sense would be after he's a UFA, and only if he takes a major home town discount.

Edited February 22, 2022 by JoeSchmoe

[Flashsabre]

35 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Is there any reason why Chicago does this deal, especially since we have nothing but core young pieces to offer? 

Given we don't want to give up core young pieces, and teams don't give away good players for nothing, this is probably just pie in the sky.

I get it though... seeing another good home town guy like Tuch would be pretty cool. The only way Kane would ever make sense would be after he's a UFA, and only if he takes a major home town discount.

My thought was only if Chicago wants to blow it up and Kane says he wants out the Hawks want his salary off the books. Something like some combination of: Rosen, Vegas 1st, Florida 1st, Laaksonen, Polpatov. I could live with a package including a couple of those type pieces but not our high end guys which would probably be a non starter for Chicago.

I don’t think it is likely, and it is not our biggest need at all. It would be a fun big ticket cap hit that would probably want to come here if the Hawks and Kane decided to divorce. I mean it makes more sense to wait 2 years and sign him as a ufa but he will be 35 at that point and may not fit at all or be at his productive level by that point.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Flashsabre

[Marvin]

Where is Girgensons?  He's still signed.

You obviously get some veteran RHD, who can be pricey.

You can get a good top-6 RW, which is in the Tuch range of pricing.

You get a good defencive bottom-6 centre and roll the newest iteration of the LOG line.  This pushes Asplund to the 13th forward.

If you are not sure Peterka's ready, you get a good top-LW too, again in the Tuch range.

You can get a good goaltender, which can be very pricey.

[thewookie1]

38 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

My thought was only if Chicago wants to blow it up and Kane says he wants out the Hawks want his salary off the books. Something like some combination of: Rosen, Vegas 1st, Florida 1st, Laaksonen, Polpatov. I could live with a package including a couple of those type pieces but not our high end guys which would probably be a non starter for Chicago.

I don’t think it is likely, and it is not our biggest need at all. It would be a fun big ticket cap hit that would probably want to come here if the Hawks and Kane decided to divorce. I mean it makes more sense to wait 2 years and sign him as a ufa but he will be 35 at that point and may not fit at all or be at his productive level by that point.

Kane only has 1 more year after this year finishes

[Flashsabre]

4 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Kane only has 1 more year after this year finishes

You are right. That changes everything.😀 I wouldn’t give up a package for 1 year of Kane.

[thewookie1]

This is what I came up with the other day.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/3071328

[JoeSchmoe]

51 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Rosen, Vegas 1st, Florida 1st, Laaksonen, Polpatov

I'm not a South Buffalo guy, so I'll say no way I'm giving up any prospects... not even my much maligned Rosen to rent Patrick Kane for a year.

I think if you separate the emotional Kane/Buffalo factor no deal makes sense.

[Flashsabre]

17 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

This is what I came up with the other day.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/3071328

Husso might be the top option but I would be scared of signing another goalie from St. Louis  coming off one good year.😛😁 That is where you really need your pro scouts to come through for you.

If Letang is just looking for a payday then he would be a good mentor for Power but that might be a tough sell.

[Weave]

This gets real tricky if you can’t convince these vets that we are *this close* to being competitive.  I think it hinges on obtaining a goalie with real cred.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I'm not sure the guy quoted in the OP numbers are accurate.  I've discussed this issue before 

The Forwards:

Signed (11) Skinner, Tuch, KO, Mitts,  Cozens, Thompson, Asplund, Bjork, Krebs, Quinn, and Girgensons.  Cost: $30,926,500

Key RFA: VO - qualifying offer $3.25. Has arbitration rights.  Likely 4.5 to 5 mill to retain over 3-5 years.

Other RFAs Murray (787.5), R2 (874), Biro (874)

UFA Jankowski:  Probably 750K to retain or a small raise.  Maybe a two year 825 per season deal if KA likes him.

Signed in the AHL: JJP $886,667

The Defense

Signed (4) Dahlin, Jokiharju, Samuelsson and Fitzgerald.  Cost: 10,750,000

Un-signed draft pick: Power - cost $925K plus bonuses 

RFAs: Bryson: Q offer $874K. Has arbitration rights. 2 years for 1,000,000 max per season

UFAs: Pysyk, probably cost $1 to 1.25 to keep him.

Signed in the AHL: Laaksonen $853,333

The Goaltending

RFA: UPL Q offer $787,500

Dead Money

CoHo's $791,667

 

The Math:  

I'm going to assume KA sticks with the "plan" and stays with as many kids as reasonably possible. 

He probably re-signs Jankowski to be the 4th line center and retains VO for 4.5 for 3 years. Also JJP makes the team.  He therefore carries 14 forwards for a cost of $37,138,167.

On defense he goes with 7 D, Bryson and Fitz return but in the 6th and 7th spots.  Samuelsson, Power, Dahlin and Jokiharju are a given in the top 5 leaving a slot open for a veteran D.  I don't think they bring Pysyk back.  Cost for the 6 D 14,675,000 with one slot open

I think we have to assume UPL will be in Buffalo next season.  I can see KA locking him up for 2-3 years.  Maybe a contract like Thompsons?  3 years at 1.4 per season.

Add these three figures with CoHo's dead money and we are at $53,000,834 with a D slot and goaltending slot open.  This gives KA $10 mill to acquire veterans to fill roles on the team.  I'd try to get Quick ($5.8) from LA and Orlov ($5.1) from Washington, but after looking at both teams cap situation, neither maybe available, but guys like those should be KA's targets to get some playoff experience and more real vet leadership on this roster.

I maybe in the minority, but if KA adds two really solid vets in goal and on D, I think this team would have a real chance to surprise next season.

Edited February 22, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Sabres Fan in NS]

53 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

This is what I came up with the other day.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/3071328

I like it Wook, but it will never work ... I see only 3 $750K guys on your team.

[triumph_communes]

Our position is to trade third round picks for cap dumps that aren’t bad players around the league. Not many guys are going to just sign here, but I do believe giving Tuch the C will make some heads sway. 
 

Honestly all this lineup needs after goalies is some over paid role players. The talent is there, just all young.  Need the 4th line full of bruisers. Those are usually the first cap casualties from other teams anyway. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

The real question is how much roster flexibility does KA want.  I have assumed  KA will want most of the current guys back except the JAGs and give spots to the kids like JJP and UPL.  However what if he decides that they aren't ready?  What if he doesn't believe that Bryson and or Fitz are part of the solution in the next few years?  What he wants to move on from VO and Bjork?

In theory that would open up significantly more roster spots.

Take VO, Jankowski, Bjork out of the roster and keep JJP in Rochester and now you only have 10 forwards.  Move on from Bryson, Fitz and Pysyk and keep UPL in Rochester, and your are down to 4 D and no goalies.   These moves leave 9 roster spots open to outside players and over $21 mill to spend on them just to get to the floor.  This scenario would be very un KA like.  Still it's interesting to ponder as I don't think UPL is ready for full time NHL duty, and I'm worried that JJP isn't enough defensively aware to not have significant growing pains if placed in the NHL.  I also have advised trading VO, but think this has a less then 30% chance of happening. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'm not sure the guy quoted in the OP numbers are accurate.  I've discussed this issue before 

The Forwards:

Signed (11) Skinner, Tuch, KO, Mitts,  Cozens, Thompson, Asplund, Bjork, Krebs, Quinn, and Girgensons.  Cost: $30,926,500

Key RFA: VO - qualifying offer $3.25. Has arbitration rights.  Likely 4.5 to 5 mill to retain over 3-5 years.

Other RFAs Murray (787.5), R2 (874), Biro (874)

UFA Jankowski:  Probably 750K to retain or a small raise.  Maybe a two year 825 per season deal if KA likes him.

Signed in the AHL: JJP $886,667

The Defense

Signed (4) Dahlin, Jokiharju, Samuelsson and Fitzgerald.  Cost: 10,750,000

Un-signed draft pick: Power - cost $925K plus bonuses 

RFAs: Bryson: Q offer $874K. Has arbitration rights. 2 years for 1,000,000 max per season

UFAs: Pysyk, probably cost $1 to 1.25 to keep him.

Signed in the AHL: Laaksonen $853,333

The Goaltending

RFA: UPL Q offer $787,500

Dead Money

CoHo's $791,667

 

The Math:  

I'm going to assume KA sticks with the "plan" and stays with as many kids as reasonably possible. 

He probably re-signs Jankowski to be the 4th line center and retains VO for 4.5 for 3 years. Also JJP makes the team.  He therefore carries 14 forwards for a cost of $37,138,167.

On defense he goes with 7 D, Bryson and Fitz return but in the 6th and 7th spots.  Samuelsson, Power, Dahlin and Jokiharju are a given in the top 5 leaving a slot open for a veteran D.  I don't think they bring Pysyk back.  Cost for the 6 D 14,675,000 with one slot open

I think we have to assume UPL will be in Buffalo next season.  I can see KA locking him up for 2-3 years.  Maybe a contract like Thompsons?  3 years at 1.4 per season.

Add these three figures with CoHo's dead money and we are at $53,000,834 with a D slot and goaltending slot open.  This gives KA $10 mill to acquire veterans to fill roles on the team.  I'd try to get Quick ($5.8) from LA and Orlov ($5.1) from Washington, but after looking at both teams cap situation, neither maybe available, but guys like those should be KA's targets to get some playoff experience and more real vet leadership on this roster.

I maybe in the minority, but if KA adds two really solid vets in goal and on D, I think this team would have a real chance to surprise next season.

I don't believe that you are in the minority by suggesting that by making a few judicious moves this team could be a pleasant surprise next year. There are good debates as to what the best options should be taken. But what shouldn't be dismissed is a more creative and aggressive pursuit to get better that still falls within the rebuild strategy. And I would also argue that by up-grading the roster in addition to moving up some prospects to the NHL roster you are putting the younger players in a position to succeed. Systemic losing is corrosive!

[Buffalonill]

Trade for jamie benn he be the new brian gionta

[Marvin]

11 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Trade for jamie benn he be the new brian gionta

Just don't find a Kane and Bogosian to undermine him.

[Taro T]

20 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I don't believe that you are in the minority by suggesting that by making a few judicious moves this team could be a pleasant surprise next year. There are good debates as to what the best options should be taken. But what shouldn't be dismissed is a more creative and aggressive pursuit to get better that still falls within the rebuild strategy. And I would also argue that by up-grading the roster in addition to moving up some prospects to the NHL roster you are putting the younger players in a position to succeed. Systemic losing is corrosive!

Also, though we don't really want to be throwing away 2nd round picks & prospects to get a guy or 2 w/ some experience that can help, this team currently has prospects that aren't going to fit in LT in anything above a 3rd line role nor likely even a 4th line role that some other GM might see as a fit for his team.  So, including them in a trade wouldn't necessarily be throwing them away.  The prospect going out doesn't necessarily need to be Quinn nor Peterka.  A guy like Routsalainen or Biro or even Murray or Asplund might not really have a future here w/ such a glut of guys their own age w/ higher upsides, but maybe they fit in on a team w/ a more balanced age distribution that is looking to get younger & cheaper.

Nobody saw the Aisles completely getting their D on the right track a few years ago at a total cost of 2 2nd rounders, yet Boychuk & Leddy were that cheap & fixed a lot of issues.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Taro T

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 2/22/2022 at 12:54 PM, JohnC said:

I don't believe that you are in the minority by suggesting that by making a few judicious moves this team could be a pleasant surprise next year. There are good debates as to what the best options should be taken. But what shouldn't be dismissed is a more creative and aggressive pursuit to get better that still falls within the rebuild strategy. And I would also argue that by up-grading the roster in addition to moving up some prospects to the NHL roster you are putting the younger players in a position to succeed. Systemic losing is corrosive!

I couldn't agree more with the bolded, but I just don't see KA being aggressive.  I see him being patient to let the kids development determine what he needs to do.  His patience was rewarded on the Eichel deal, but has failed us in goal. He let the Eichel situation drag on until he got what he wanted, but wasn't wise enough to get adequate insure for the failed Ullmark deal and the fact UPL wasn't ready.  Tuch, Krebs and a 1st is a core creating decision, while the goaltending fail has lead to the corrosive losing culture.  

I believe KA wants next season to be evaluation of the kids year 2.  I think he'll stick with the status quo until forced to do otherwise.  I'm not sure I disagree with the general approach at this point.  I want to see what a Skinner, Mitts, Cozens, Thompson, Krebs, Quinn, Tuch, JJP, Dahlin, Samuelsson and Power core do before making anyone big moves.   Subtle is the watch word for me this off-season.

I continue to be struck by how much this team is reminding me of the Drury/Briere teams.  I see Tuch as the Drury type leader who instilled that losing is no longer acceptable.  I see Okposo as the Grier type lockerroom leader and Krebs as Tim Connolly.   I see a huge influx of kids coming up from the minors (Quinn, Samuelsson, JJP and UPL) to assume huge roles in one season like Roy, Vanek, Pommers and Milller did. What I'm looking for now is the Teppo Numminen type D leader that helps all the kids on D become their best selves.  (I also wouldn't mind finding a undervalued player like Toni Lydman).

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I couldn't agree more with the bolded, but I just don't see KA being aggressive.  I see him being patient to let the kids development determine what he needs to do.  His patience was rewarded on the Eichel deal, but has failed us in goal. He let the Eichel situation drag on until he got what he wanted, but wasn't wise enough to get adequate insure for the failed Ullmark deal and the fact UPL wasn't ready.  Tuch, Krebs and a 1st is a core creating decision, while the goaltending fail has lead to the corrosive losing culture.  

I believe KA wants next season to be evaluation of the kids year 2.  I think he'll stick with the status quo until forced to do otherwise.  I'm not sure I disagree with the general approach at this point.  I want to see what a Skinner, Mitts, Cozens, Thompson, Krebs, Quinn, Tuch, JJP, Dahlin, Samuelsson and Power core do before making anyone big moves.   Subtle to the watch world for me this off-season.

I continue to be struck by how much this team is reminding me of the Drury/Briere teams.  I see Tuch as the Drury type leader who instilled that losing is no longer acceptable.  I see Okposo as the Grier type lockerroom leader and Krebs as Tim Connolly.   I see a huge influx of kids coming up from the minors (Quinn, Samuelsson, JJP and UPL) to assume huge roles in one season like Roy, Vanek, Pommers and Milller did. What I'm looking for now is the Teppo Numminen type D leader that helps all the kids on D become their best selves.  (I also wouldn't mind finding a undervalued player like Toni Lydman).

 

OK, we give.  Wtf does the bolded mean?

[GASabresIUFAN]

"Subtle is the watch word"  "world" was a spelling error.

Basically it means that KA is only going to make decisions that get us to the cap floor.  No major changes just subtle ones.  

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

"Subtle is the watch word"  "world" was a spelling error.

Basically it means that KA is only going to make decisions that get us to the cap floor.  No major changes just subtle ones.  

"Subtle IS" ... makes a #### ton more sense than "subtle TO" ... 

Combined w/ the other typo had no ####ing clue what you were actually trying to say.

[Crusader1969]

4 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

My thought was only if Chicago wants to blow it up and Kane says he wants out the Hawks want his salary off the books. Something like some combination of: Rosen, Vegas 1st, Florida 1st, Laaksonen, Polpatov. I could live with a package including a couple of those type pieces but not our high end guys which would probably be a non starter for Chicago.

I don’t think it is likely, and it is not our biggest need at all. It would be a fun big ticket cap hit that would probably want to come here if the Hawks and Kane decided to divorce. I mean it makes more sense to wait 2 years and sign him as a ufa but he will be 35 at that point and may not fit at all or be at his productive level by that point.

Way to high a price to pay for a guy with 1 year left on his contract and 34 in November 

I don’t mind the idea but I’d rather wait another year and get him for free 

 

 

[Crusader1969]

3 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

You are right. That changes everything.😀 I wouldn’t give up a package for 1 year of Kane.

Sorry, I see you updated your position

[Cage]

All I can say is thank God we paid Skinner $9m/year