GDT - Sabres @ Blue Jackets - Feb 20, 2022 - 6:00 PM (EST) - MSG-B, WGR, BSOH

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

People felt the hot stove of the Murray accelerated rebuild and have now turned the heat off completely, retreating to the equally extreme (but on the opposite end) desire to hoard picks and prospects.  The suggestion of even a single upgrade or two for now is met with “that’s not draft and develop.”

In reality, there’s a healthy middle ground, like you have been alluding to 

The middle ground is the same ground that ever team in the league uses to get better. Rigidity in a world of constant change is a strategy that leaves you behind in the real world. When an argument is forcibly made that doing something to work a deal to bring in a good player or two is detrimental because there is too much risk in doing so, then it is time to get out of the business where every transaction that includes drafting, trades, salary contracts, free agency signings is inherently risky. It makes no sense to me. 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

The middle ground is the same ground that ever team in the league uses to get better. Rigidity in a world of constant change is a strategy that leaves you behind in the real world. When an argument is forcibly made that doing something to work a deal to bring in a good player or two is detrimental because there is too much risk in doing so, then it is time to get out of the business where every transaction that includes drafting, trades, salary contracts, free agency signings is inherently risky. It makes no sense to me. 

The riskiness of all transactions is the Bear. Adams doesn’t need to outrun the bear, he just needs to be a little quicker than the other GMs trying to outrun that same risk. 

Given what we know of the league’s GM’s, is that really too much to ask? 

[Believer]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

In the macro you are probably exactly right but given the option to cast aside the playoff berth, after all this time..I don’t think I could do it. “The Ring is mine.”

Our young core need to learn how to finish on strong nights… how to win on weak nights… and to get some playoff experience… Preferably all three starting next season with the addition of a goaltender and a forward from a winning program… It’s about expectations… Pegula, KA, Granato, the players, and the Buffalo community need to rachet up expectations… Tuch gets it… 

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Another good point you touch on here is what I’d call a surplus of LHD prospects. Of course it’s a little different when dealing with prospects rather than fully developed players, but we saw what happened to the right side of our D when Botterill hoarded RHD - it worked to the detriment of the overall pool. He torpedoed the value of the players within the surplus and now the surplus is a deficit. It’s tough to swap an area of strength for need when the players making up said Strength aren’t being given the proper runway. 

To me, one of our young LHD prospects is a prime trade chip in the now term due to their “mystery box” attribute being in full effect. 

What you, others and I are basically saying is that the organizations has to consider all options to improve and better balance the roster. Some people consider that to be a radical notion. I'm speechless. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by JohnC

[dudacek]

11 minutes ago, Believer said:

Our young core need to learn how to finish on strong nights… how to win on weak nights… and to get some playoff experience… Preferably all three starting next season with the addition of a goaltender and a forward from a winning program… It’s about expectations… Pegula, KA, Granato, the players, and the Buffalo community need to rachet up expectations… Tuch gets it… 

To me, Granato is starting to shift in that direction in his pressers.

[Thorner]

29 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What you, others and I are basically saying is that the organizations has to consider all options to improve and better balance the roster. Some people consider that to be a radical notion. I'm speechless. 

I agree with everything you’ve said up until the bolded, John, which is where I draw the line. 

The evidence simply doesn’t support it. 

*insert wink emoji*

Edited February 22, 2022 by Thorny

[Johnny Utah]

So if you look at our last draft and the handful of players outside of Quinn, Krebs and Peterka who would garner some interest in a bundle? I thought that most of the Russians are a good 3-4 years out at best (if ever). I hate to throw 1st and 2nd round future picks away as we want to build our Team around them. Having said that if we try to sell Miller, Pysyk, Hagg, Hino or any grouping of them to get another 1st rounder, I think we will have to offer up a young prospect too. What is in the cupboard that would garner interest to make this happen?

[LGR4GM]

11 hours ago, JohnC said:

You are distorting by exaggerating what I am advocating for. Our top prospects such as JJ and Quinn will be on our roster next season. One of our lower first picks included with taking on salary could be parlayed into a good young player or high end prospect who could be projected to be a top two line player. Could our defenseman prospect in Johnson be included in a deal that could help this team? There are options and opportunities to be had with a little creativity and initiative. How about using a second round pick in a deal to acquire a solid goalie? Even if UPL is ready next year we could use another goalie. 

Repeating what I and others have stated: The Sabres have draft capital and a large cap availability to work with. Using some of the chips on hand doesn't translate into deviating from a rebuild strategy as you suggest. 

No I am not and I stopped reading there. I am trying to illustrate what the cost could be if we want to get aggressive this offseason to improve things. 

As others have noted there can be good cheaper options pop open but it will really depend. 

11 hours ago, JohnC said:

What you, others and I are basically saying is that the organizations has to consider all options to improve and better balance the roster. Some people consider that to be a radical notion. I'm speechless. 

If we want to talk about distorting and exaggerating... let's start here. 

 

11 hours ago, Thorny said:

Another good point you touch on here is what I’d call a surplus of LHD prospects. Of course it’s a little different when dealing with prospects rather than fully developed players, but we saw what happened to the right side of our D when Botterill hoarded RHD - it worked to the detriment of the overall pool. He torpedoed the value of the players within the surplus and now the surplus is a deficit. It’s tough to swap an area of strength for need when the players making up said Strength aren’t being given the proper runway. 

To me, one of our young LHD prospects is a prime trade chip in the now term due to their “mystery box” attribute being in full effect. 

Again, you have to be careful because we don't know if Johnson is better than Samuelsson. It's just a more delicate and nuanced conversation than "Kevyn Adams has to do something more aggressive this offseason" because he actually does not depending on the market. 

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

What did it take the Sabres to Acquire ROR, Kane, and Bogo (so two top 9 forwards and 1 top 6 defender)? 

ROR: Zadorov, Grigorenko, Compher, 2nd round pick

2022 equivalent: Samuelsson, Poltapov, Quinn? Nadeau maybe instead, 2nd

Kane + BOGO: Lemieux, Armia, Stafford, Myers, and a 1st

2022 equivalent: Rosen, Peterka, Olofsson, Jokiharju? Ryan Johnson?, and a 1st

Do I think it is worth doing that even if we get players without all the baggage... not at this time. Next year maybe and we could get lucky and Adams could find a Skinner like deal this summer and that is what he should look for. I don't have a problem with getting better but with the cost that ppl seem to not be discussing when you trade for an impact player in todays NHL. 

Agree this is not the time for big trades. I prefer to keep and develop the players in your list.
 

I am talking about two moves.  A vet RHD that can help a very young defense.  A reliable NHL goalie for backup or 1B.  It’s time to win more games and move up in the standings.  

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Agree this is not the time for big trades. I prefer to keep and develop the players in your list.
 

I am talking about two moves.  A vet RHD that can help a very young defense.  A reliable NHL goalie for backup or 1B.  It’s time to win more games and move up in the standings.  

Would bump the GTer up to a 1B/ starter to cover the very real possibility that UPL nor either of the other kids are up to being a 1A/ starter.  But other than that, spot on.

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Agree this is not the time for big trades. I prefer to keep and develop the players in your list.
 

I am talking about two moves.  A vet RHD that can help a very young defense.  A reliable NHL goalie for backup or 1B.  It’s time to win more games and move up in the standings.  

I’d really like a little more jam in the lineup.  Less Hiney Stroka and Olofsson more Cozens and Samuelsson types.  Get your RHD that hits and sticks up for teammates, get a vet forward or two that play hard.  Asplund can go as well. Let’s get rid of the waify small middle of the road skill guys and replace them with bigger aggressive hard to play against guys.  I’m not advocating trading Jack Quinn for Cal Clutterbuck but any of the aforementioned guys need to be replaced by some guys that hit and fight and have a modicum of skill.  

[thewookie1]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

To me, Granato is starting to shift in that direction in his pressers.

He definitely seems to be slowly edging that way. He’s begun putting the onus on players to step up and take command of their own team. He’s willing to guide and help them but his post games have changed from a tune of their young and learning to their growing and need to keep the pedal on the floor.

1 minute ago, inkman said:

I’d really like a little more jam in the lineup.  Less Hiney Stroka and Olofsson more Cozens and Samuelsson types.  Get your RHD that hits and sticks up for teammates, get a vet forward or two that play hard.  Asplund can go as well. Let’s get rid of the waify small middle of the road skill guys and replace them with bigger aggressive hard to play against guys.  I’m not advocating trading Jack Quinn for Cal Clutterbuck but any of the aforementioned guys need to be replaced by some guys that hit and fight and have a modicum of skill.  

I’d see if Hornquist is available this offseason. Still a handy net front presence with a mean disposition.

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, Thorny said:

I agree with everything you’ve said up until the bolded, John, which is where I draw the line. 

The evidence simply doesn’t support it. 

*insert wink emoji*

I can't respond because I am tongue tied! 😃

[inkman]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

I can't respond because I am tongue tied! 😃