GDT Islanders at Sabres, Feb. 15, 2022, 7pm, MSG, WGR.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

3 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

While I won't argue that the goal was on him, he also led the team in points last night (3 assists).  Yes I want him to backcheck like crazy and he messed up.  He made up for it.

He was out for that goal and still +2 on the night.

The Sabres won the game 6 - 3, so it really doesn't matter what mistakes where made and by whom.  That play was a learning experience for Dylan.  Like you said, he had a great game with one brain fart that did not affect the outcome.  I consider myself fortunate if I have only one brain fart in a given day.

If they had lost by one goal then maybe he would be ripped a bit more, but still not by me.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

While I won't argue that the goal was on him, he also led the team in points last night (3 assists).  Yes I want him to backcheck like crazy and he messed up.  He made up for it.

He had an empty net assist so meh on that. His assist on the shorthanded goal was him shooting and the rebound going to Tage so good on him for that. 

There is scoring error on the first Olofsson goal. Cozens should have a 2nd assist not the first assist as the pass comes straight from Krebs for that goal. Actually Cozens did very little on it other than getting it in the zone. He chips it ahead, Olofsson passes it to Krebs, Krebs passes it back to Olofsson. 

Idk, I just need a little more from Cozens at this point then I am seeing on the ice. I want him generating more as we close out the season. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

It amazes how often Cozens gets a pass considering he is only 1 year younger than Dahlin. On the NYI first goal last night, that was all on Cozens being completely unaware coming off the bench and allowing Palmieri to go straight past because he was flat footed. 

Also Bjork has no place on the team. He was also partly responsible for the goal when instead of dumping the pass into space (where Dahlin was heading to) he tried to use his limited skills to force a pass through 2 players and it was an immediate counter attack, catching Dahlin in a bad spot while Bjork didn't recover and then Cozens comes off the bench and doesn't help cover the guy who was behind Dahlin because of Bjorks terrible pass. Just an awful sequence. 

 

Don't disagree about Cozens getting a bit of a pass here.  But claiming he was "completely unaware" on the Palmiere goal seems a bit harsh as Thompson was not expected to be coming off the ice early due to needing oral repairs.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Actually Cozens did very little on it other than getting it in the zone. He chips it ahead

I think you undervalue "getting it into the zone".  The play doesn't even happen if Cozens doesn't put it in a spot where Ollie can get it.  Any of our fourth liners, for instance, would have rimmed it around the boards hard and it would have went right out at the opposite point.  It's like volleyball:  The set and spike are dramatic but without the dig to get it to the setter you never get to that point.

He might not be making the precision pass to Ollie for the shot, but he's pushing play up ice.  If Olofsson starts to find his shot, I can see this being a very, very effective line, with Cozens pushing it up ice, pressuring the defenders and working the boards, Krebs finding the seams and Olofsson shooting and Cozens cleaning up any rebounds.

As for the shorthanded goal, look at Cozens reading Tage as Tage works it along the boards, and how he found a little dead spot among the Isles that gave him room to shoot.  It was a good shot, too hot to handle, producing a juicy rebound.  But that wasn't much in your eyes, eh?

Edited February 16, 2022 by The Ghost of Yuri

[LGR4GM]

47 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I think you undervalue "getting it into the zone".  The play doesn't even happen if Cozens doesn't put it in a spot where Ollie can get it.  Any of our fourth liners, for instance, would have rimmed it around the boards hard and it would have went right out at the opposite point.  It's like volleyball:  The set and spike are dramatic but without the dig to get it to the setter you never get to that point.

He might not be making the precision pass to Ollie for the shot, but he's pushing play up ice.  If Olofsson starts to find his shot, I can see this being a very, very effective line, with Cozens pushing it up ice, pressuring the defenders and working the boards, Krebs finding the seams and Olofsson shooting and Cozens cleaning up any rebounds.

As for the shorthanded goal, look at Cozens reading Tage as Tage works it along the boards, and how he found a little dead spot among the Isles that gave him room to shoot.  It was a good shot, too hot to handle, producing a juicy rebound.  But that wasn't much in your eyes, eh?

I said "was him shooting and the rebound going to Tage so good on him for that" giving Cozens credit for the shot and rebound. 

As to the other play, Cozens doesn't enter the zone with possession and is fortunate that Olofsson gets it. So sure he had a 3 point day, 1 is good, 1 is okayish, 1 is an empty net assist. I just want more out of cozens. 

[Weave]

His 3 point game doesn’t meet my standards for 3 point games!  Lol

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, Weave said:

His 3 point game doesn’t meet my standards for 3 point games!  Lol

Why even bother to respond if you don't want to engage with the conversation?

You know what, I'm don't want to do this today. I gave my opinion that Cozens needs to be better and his secondary assist and empty net assist didn't impress me, if others don't like it, that's fine. 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I won't be there but I'd boo.  He rejected the team.  He didn't want a rebuild.  The team is better for the build they're doing.  He signed a contract and then didn't want to play here.  I have a problem with that.

 

Boo.

What you left out is that Eichel and the organization were at an impasse in regards to the surgery he should have. The Sabres would not permit him to have the surgery he wanted, and thus couldn't play at all. Vegas who traded for him allowed the preferred surgery. He is now back on the ice. If he were still with the Sabres he would not be playing. Jack already lost a year because of the surgery issue. It was time for him to go and for the organization to move on. 

If you were at the game and wanted to boo that would be your prerogative. If I were at the game I would act differently. As the saying goes: To each their own. 

[Taro T]

29 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What you left out is that Eichel and the organization were at an impasse in regards to the surgery he should have. The Sabres would not permit him to have the surgery he wanted, and thus couldn't play at all. Vegas who traded for him allowed the preferred surgery. He is now back on the ice. If he were still with the Sabres he would not be playing. Jack already lost a year because of the surgery issue. It was time for him to go and for the organization to move on. 

If you were at the game and wanted to boo that would be your prerogative. If I were at the game I would act differently. As the saying goes: To each their own. 

Had the Sabres not wanted to trade him away, not convinced they wouldn't have let him get the surgery he wanted.  (Not convinced they would've either, but the rationales change tremendously minus that caveat so they might have.)  So, were he still a Sabre, it's probably better than 50/50 he'd be playing already.

Water under the bridge.  Still painful as the ice chunks bounce off those of us standing under that bridge, but still, water under the bridge.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Had the Sabres not wanted to trade him away, not convinced they wouldn't have let him get the surgery he wanted.  (Not convinced they would've either, but the rationales change tremendously minus that caveat so they might have.)  So, were he still a Sabre, it's probably better than 50/50 he'd be playing already.

Water under the bridge.  Still painful as the ice chunks bounce off those of us standing under that bridge, but still, water under the bridge.

As you put it the water is under the bridge. My sense is that the organization was taking a hard stance with Jack. There was clearly bad blood between the parties involved. I just think that it eventually worked out well for Jack and the organization. I have no animosity toward Jack. I wish him well and the organization well. Irreconcilable differences happen in sports and in life. A change of scenery was required by all in order to move on. I'm more than happy with the return. 

[Doohicksie]

48 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What you left out is that Eichel and the organization were at an impasse in regards to the surgery he should have.

They were at an impasse because he was already done with the team.  He didn't want to be part of a rebuild so we was gone either way.  So no, I wouldn't authorize experimental (in the context of professional hockey) surgery either. 

[dudacek]

Just thinking about last night:

Thompson's goal was absolutely a play where he forced his will on the other team: that was 1st-line play by any measure.

Tuch's goal game with 0.6 seconds left and was pure clutch

Olofsson's goal was a game winner in the last few minutes buried off fantastic set-up, with the added bonus of being a slump-buster and seeing the joy of his teammates.

3 great Sabres plays from 3 separate scorers in the same game? Have not seen very much of that over the past 10 years, have we? Hockey can be fun.

[Doohicksie]

If he had Tuch's enthusiasm for the team and wanted to be here, he would have had his surgery in the offseason.  But he wanted out so the team wanted no part of that surgery.

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

They were at an impasse because he was already done with the team.  He didn't want to be part of a rebuild so we was gone either way.  So no, I wouldn't authorize experimental (in the context of professional hockey) surgery either. 

They were at an impasse because management didn't really want to build around him & he didn't want to go through another rebuild.

They both wanted the divorce.  And the kids (fans) are the ones caught in the middle.

And, it's possible when all is said and done that this will be one of those truly rare trades like Nieuwendyk for Iginla where both teams can honestly say they believe they won the trade and nobody will say it's purely posturing.  In order for that to happen IMHO is Eichel needs to play as that 1.2 PPG player we saw prior to injuries 2 seasons ago & play at least 70 gpy & Tuch needs to stay at a 0.85-0.9 PPG player (he's ahead of that now), Krebs needs to hit close to his ceiling, & that 1st rounder needs to be useful (not great but useful).

[woods-racer]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Why even bother to respond if you don't want to engage with the conversation?

You know what, I'm don't want to do this today. I gave my opinion that Cozens needs to be better and his secondary assist and empty net assist didn't impress me, if others don't like it, that's fine. 

I don't believe he had one of his better games on the offensive side of the puck, that is where as a TV viewer we can see the forwards and get a sense of how they are playing. Defensively he's usually not in the camera, so I can't say. He did look like he's clutching his stick in the offensive zone trying to  create something. I would say he was personally feeling the pressure and thought he was part of the problem in not getting  VO's 1000# gorilla off his back.

 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

They were at an impasse because management didn't really want to build around him & he didn't want to go through another rebuild.

They both wanted the divorce.

The difference is that he was their employee.  Personally I don't care if he didn't want to go through another rebuild.  What does that even mean:  Build around him?  Build the team, it doesn't revolve around one player.  The way I see it, the Sabres were more accommodating than they needed to be:

1. When Jack said he didn't want another rebuild, they tried bringing in players to make the team competitive immediately with Staal, Hall, et al.
2. When that crashed and burned (in no small part because Jack couldn't perform), they started looking for a trade partner.

He had signed a contract, a promise to play for the Sabres for eight years.  So he didn't want a rebuild?  Be a professional and live up to the contract and don't be a whiny bitch.

I don't always like what my company does either, but I show up every day and do what's asked of me.  I'm heading into my 3rd corporate re-org in 4 years.  It's a pain but that's what they pay me for so I do what they want with a smile on my face.

Edited February 16, 2022 by The Ghost of Yuri

[Indabuff]

20 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

 

I cannot stop watching this.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

The difference is that he was there employee.  Personally I don't care if he didn't want to go through another rebuild.  What does that even mean:  Build around him?  Build the team, it doesn't revolve around one player.  The way I see it, the Sabres were more accommodating than they needed to be:

1. When Jack said he didn't want another rebuild, they tried bringing in players to make the team competitive immediately with Staal, Hall, et al.
2. When that crashed and burned, they started looking for a trade partner.

He had signed a contract, a promise to play for the Sabres for eight years.  So he didn't want a rebuild?  Be a professional and live up to the contract and don't be a whiny bitch.

I don't always like what my company does either, but I show up every day and do what's asked of me.  I'm heading into my 3rd corporate re-org in 4 years.  It's a pain but that's what they pay me for so I do what they want with a smile on my face.

You keep focusing on one half of the dynamic while ignoring the other 1/2 of it.  Adams would've gladly traded Eichel on his 1st day on the job but HIS boss didn't want that to happen.  You try to make it out to be one sided and all due to Jack not wanting to go through a rebuild.  That is only 1/2 of the picture.  Adams didn't want him.  

If in this current reorg your boss makes it obvious you aren't wanted, you going to stick around hoping for another reorg or are you going to take the hint?  And that wasn't meant to say that Adams came out and told Eichel he didn't want him there which led to the "if you're going to go through another rebuild & you think it'll make it easier to accomplish by trading me, then by all means do so" nor was it meant to say only management wanted the divorce.  They both mutually wanted Jack to move on.  Not sure what the difficult to fathom part is in this matter.  Adams preference was to start the rebuild coming out of COVID, not to start it this year.

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Build the team, it doesn't revolve around one player. 

This may be the fundamental difference between the current reset and the previous.

To a man, the Sabres Blinding Light Brigade speaks with conviction about being part of a “group of young players that together will grow to do great things.”

Which is markedly different approach to “we are going to squander two entire seasons in order to get Conner McDavid, or at least Jack Eichel, because he will lead us to the promised land.”

This is not pointed at Jack. It is pointed at Tim Murray and the culture and expectation that his tank created.

Edited February 16, 2022 by dudacek

[Doohicksie]

38 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Adams didn't want him. 

Adams was around the team long enough before he took the GM slot to make an informed decision on Eichel.

[Taro T]

11 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Adams was around the team long enough before he took the GM slot to make an informed decision on Eichel.

So, maybe it was the chicken & not the egg that came 1st.  Or is that the other way round?  😉

 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

This may be the fundamental difference between the current reset and the previous.

To a man, the Sabres Blinding Light Brigade speaks with conviction about being part of a “group of young players that together will grow to do great things.”

Which is markedly different approach to “we are going to squander two entire seasons in order to get Conner McDavid, or at least Jack Eichel, because he will lead us to the promised land.”

This is not pointed at Jack. It is pointed at Tim Murray and the culture and expectation that his tank created.

You'd have to convince me it was Murray's tank.  It started before Murray was hired.  It was Terry's tank.  Murray was the Field General under orders.

 

 

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, Weave said:

You'd have to convince me it was Murray's tank.  It started before Murray was hired.  It was Terry's tank.  Murray was the Field General under orders.

 

 

Not really trying to make a point about who initiated the tank.

More about how Murray executed it with no seeming thought or concern about the human elements; the messages sent to his golden boys and to those who weren’t afforded that status.

[Huckleberry]

What I do notice is this team is way more excited and happy for their teammates.   The way VO got jumped, the way the bench reacted, they were truly happy for him.  

The attitude of this team changed 180 degrees versus last year.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

You keep focusing on one half of the dynamic while ignoring the other 1/2 of it.  Adams would've gladly traded Eichel on his 1st day on the job but HIS boss didn't want that to happen.  You try to make it out to be one sided and all due to Jack not wanting to go through a rebuild.  That is only 1/2 of the picture.  Adams didn't want him.  

If in this current reorg your boss makes it obvious you aren't wanted, you going to stick around hoping for another reorg or are you going to take the hint?  And that wasn't meant to say that Adams came out and told Eichel he didn't want him there which led to the "if you're going to go through another rebuild & you think it'll make it easier to accomplish by trading me, then by all means do so" nor was it meant to say only management wanted the divorce.  They both mutually wanted Jack to move on.  Not sure what the difficult to fathom part is in this matter.  Adams preference was to start the rebuild coming out of COVID, not to start it this year.

As you accurately describe the situation both parties wanted out. There was no secret about either sides desire. The end result is both parties basically got what they wanted. It's not an issue who is the good guy  and who is the bad guy in this conflict. In many respects it was a business decision where both sides came to the same conclusion. The issue for the GM was whether he was going to get a reasonable return on his asset. And the GM had to contend with the complicating feature of Jack's health and desired surgery procedure.  Considering the circumstances, I believe the GM got a fair return.