What do you want to see from the Sabres in last 37 games?

[Stoner]

 

[Stoner]

Our cold and timid franchise knows neither victory nor defeat.

[nfreeman]

The Edmund Morris bio of Teddy Roosevelt was really good, btw.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

3 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Our cold and timid franchise knows neither victory nor defeat.

What ?????

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

What ?????

@PASabreFan has become a DarthRoosevelt and is quoting Teddy. I believe next he'll be posting gifs of Arsenic and Old Lace into the GDTs.

[postseasonblues]

I say...  "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."

[dudacek]

I’d like to see some cohesiveness with a lineup that seems to have been constantly patched together, and some identity in terms of players carving (the younger prospects, Mitts) or continuing to carve (Tuch, Tage, Dahlin) go-to roles.

[Doohicksie]

The Hockey Guy takes a gander at the Sabres, fwiw.  He's missed a couple things, namely injuries (but frankly it's hard to keep up with the Sabres injury report, innit?)

 

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

The Hockey Guy takes a gander at the Sabres, fwiw.  He's missed a couple things, namely injuries (but frankly it's hard to keep up with the Sabres injury report, innit?)

 

Skipped over a major piece in Krebs but over all a good analysis 

major difference to me from 2014-15 to this season -   Is that they didn’t have a huge core of youth that is about to step into lineup

In 15/16 they had Eichel,  Reinhart  and girgs  as young players with Risto on D 

once you got past the 4 young players and  Kane / O’Reilly the team had little else  

next years team SHOULD be able to put out quality / skilled 4 lines and 3 defensive pairs  

it will be interesting to see if they can outperform the 15/16 team  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Skipped over a major piece in Krebs but over all a good analysis 

major difference to me from 2014-15 to this season -   Is that they didn’t have a huge core of youth that is about to step into lineup

In 15/16 they had Eichel,  Reinhart  and girgs  as young players with Risto on D 

once you got past the 4 young players and  Kane / O’Reilly the team had little else  

next years team SHOULD be able to put out quality / skilled 4 lines and 3 defensive pairs  

it will be interesting to see if they can outperform the 15/16 team 

Sabres roster has been "dynamic" this year to say the least.  Yeah Krebs projects to be a big part of the future but I can't blame him for missing one or two of the new faces.

[gilbert11]

On 2/6/2022 at 12:30 PM, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I don't care.  This season is about next season.  Next season I want to see them bucking for a playoff spot, ahead of (at the very least) the Red Wings, Sens and Habs (the other rebuilding teams in the division) and preferably ahead of Boston or TO.

Next season I want to see the young talent putting JAGs on unemployment and for good reasons.  I want to see goaltending.  Whether it's acquired or home grown, I want to see two quality goalkeepers on the roster at all times.

And next season I want to see how Shane Wright looks in the Blue and Gold.  😉

The details of how we get there don't concern me.  I'm not a hockey professional.  I just want to see it happen.

It’s Bill Murray and Groundhog Day all over again.   Next year, next year….

[OrangeSeatVertigo]

Play the young talent.  Murray, Quinn, etc.  Get them out there at the earliest opportunity.   

[jsb]

1. See Mitts and Quinn get healthy and get 30+ games from Mitts and 25+ from Quinn
2. See continued progress from Samuelsson and see Joker become more consistent
3. See Dahlin, Krebs and Cozens take another step up in progress
4. See Girgs and Okposo stay healthy to give the young guys someone to depend on
5. See Skinner and Tuch continue to play well together with either Thompson or Cozens
6. See UPL stay healthy to see if he'll be 1 of the GKs next year
7. See VO return to form and Asplund make a play for a bottom 6 role next year
8. See a better team defensive structure going forward
9. See Power at the end of the year to see what's in store from him and Johnson as well

Edited February 9, 2022 by jsb

[Thorner]

20 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Skipped over a major piece in Krebs but over all a good analysis 

major difference to me from 2014-15 to this season -   Is that they didn’t have a huge core of youth that is about to step into lineup

In 15/16 they had Eichel,  Reinhart  and girgs  as young players with Risto on D 

once you got past the 4 young players and  Kane / O’Reilly the team had little else  

next years team SHOULD be able to put out quality / skilled 4 lines and 3 defensive pairs  

it will be interesting to see if they can outperform the 15/16 team  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We aren’t thinking of all the young players (Bailey?) we *thought* would be helping at the time because the memory of our optimistic hopes have been swept away with the sands of time. If we look back, we were indeed placing at the very top of prospect lists then, too, and there WAS a perceived wave about to “step in”. 

I like the 15-16 comp. That’s where the rebuilds align more less, right? The expectation with Jack coming aboard that year was that we’d be improving/winning/on the up and up, I’d imagine as this was Adams “not about winning” year that next year is when the expectation/focus should be on more wins, too.

Going out at eclipsing 81 points is the base level bar of expectation imo. It’s fair, it’s NHL .500.

Do that and I think it’s on a reasonable track

[dudacek]

I remember the board being high on Fasching, Baptiste and Bailey. But in terms of where those prospects are compared to the current Rochester trio, is night and day. 

1st year Rochester pro projected over 82 AHL games:

• Bailey 23/29/52
• Baptiste 17/20/37
• Fasching 18/9/27
• Quinn 61/58/119
• Krebs 18/50/68
• Peterka 24/58/82

Quinn is as productive on his own as the 2016 three combined.

 

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I remember the board being high on Fasching, Baptiste and Bailey. But in terms of where those prospects are compared to the current Rochester trio, is night and day. 

1st year Rochester pro projected over 82 AHL games:

• Bailey 23/29/52
• Baptiste 17/20/37
• Fasching 18/9/27
• Quinn 61/58/119
• Krebs 18/50/68
• Peterka 24/58/82

Quinn is as productive on his own as the 2016 three combined.

 

But Quinn and Krebs would be matched up with Eichel and Reinhart. 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

But Quinn and Krebs would be matched up with Eichel and Reinhart. 

And McCabe and Risto with Power and Dahlin?

And where does Cozens fit?

[Thorner]

Just now, dudacek said:

And McCabe and Risto with Power and Dahlin?

And where does Cozens fit?

He’d be giving up ground to ROR

[DarthEbriate]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I remember the board being high on Fasching, Baptiste and Bailey. But in terms of where those prospects are compared to the current Rochester trio, is night and day. 

Definitely high on hopium way back then. They were the first supplemental wave of kids to join the tank's new center spine of Eichel/ROR/Reinhart. We we on our way up!

I readily admit I liked Baptiste and Fasching as the potential to become middle six if they peaked in their development. The complimentary guys who work hard/grind (Fasching) or win the puck races (Baptiste) but are not the most skilled guys on their line and rely on the overall chemistry of the trio. Bailey could become a bottom six guy with size/speed. The new trio's potential is significantly higher and that's reflected in where they were drafted.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

He’d be giving up ground to ROR

This is a long way from where this started.

Are we comparing prospects or teams?

[Thorner]

If we compared player for player maybe it ends up kinda close? I think it could be argued either way tbh. My contention is with the idea we have some sort of, I believe the word used was “huge” influx of talent relative to 15-16.

We can break it down several ways but I don’t think it’s even close to our overall talent being relatively “huge” in comparison to that year 

What’s happening is the mental write off of the talent we had in Eichel and Reinhart that I predicted because people literally were posting about them being “write offs”. 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This is a long way from where this started.

Are we comparing prospects or teams?

That’s kind of my point, which I explained above. The argument seems to be that we have a huge influx of talent coming unlike back then, and I can only assume the connotation there is that our overall talent level looks to be in significantly better shape as no mention is being made to the further behind starting point re: what the roster needs and/or the overall picture 

[Thorner]

@dudacekif you look back to the post I initially responded to, it was talking about the overall makeup of the team

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This is a long way from where this started.

Are we comparing prospects or teams?

For me the convo I joined into indeed started with a team for team comparison with the point being the team would compare favourably to 15-16, *overall*

Edited February 9, 2022 by Thorny

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

That’s kind of my point, which I explained above. The argument seems to be that we have a huge influx of talent coming unlike back then, and I can only assume the connotation there is that our overall talent level looks to be in significantly better shape as no mention is being made to the further behind starting point re: what the roster needs and/or the overall picture 

This is absolutely correct.

On paper, Murray’s team followed a contender template and should have worked.

• Playmaking 1C Eichel
• Elite 2way C ROR
• 2 top-6 power forwards in Okposo and Kane
• Smart versatile top-6 playmaker in Reinhart
• Young, rugged, talented horses on D in Bogo, McCabe and Risto
• Massive emerging goalie stud in Lehner
• Veteran leadership in Gorges, Gionta and Moulson
• And a group of big, strong youngsters on the way for depth in Foligno, Girgensons, Fasching, Bailey, Baptiste, Deslauriers and Guhle.

It had a potential identity and all the potential in the world to be a big, tough, skilled handful to play against.

But it was also a poorly managed, poorly coached group of entitled athletes, most of whom failed to live up to their billings or gel as a team.

I’d say that group had better perceived talent. Let’s hope this one is better at the rest.

 

[dudacek]

7 hours ago, Thorny said:

@dudacekif you look back to the post I initially responded to, it was talking about the overall makeup of the team

For me the convo I joined into indeed started with a team for team comparison with the point being the team would compare favourably to 15-16, *overall*

Here’s another way of looking at this:

In the spring of 2013, Darcy Regier hit the reset button and began selling off vets for picks and prospects. He and Tim Murray combined to develop and assemble a trove of “futures” assets with which to build a contender. Kevyn Adams did a similar thing 8 years later with several pieces inherited from Botterill.

Here’s what they had/have to work with in terms of 1st and 2nd round pick value:

• 2) Eichel 1) Power
• 2) Reinhart 1) Dahlin 
• 8. Nylander 4) TBD 2022*
• 8. Ristolainen 7) Cozens
• 10) Hodgson 8. Quinn
• 12) Myers 8.Mittelstadt
• 12) Grigorenko 14) Rosen
• 14) Girgensons 16) TBD 2023*
• 16) Armia 17) Krebs
• 16) Zadorov 20) TBD Vegas*
• 21) Colin White 26) Thompson
• 23) Pysyk 29) Jokiharju
• 24) Ennis 30) TBD Florida*
• 25) Jack Roslovic 31) Johnson 
• 31) Jeremy Roy 32) Samuelsson
• 31) Lemieux 33) Poltapov
• 33) Asplund 33) Asplund
• 35) Compher 34) Peterka
• 38) Hurley 36) TBD 2022*
• 44) Cornel 37) Davidsson
• 44) Adam 48) TBD 2023*
• 44) McCabe 48) TBD Philly*
• 45) Chad Krys 48) TBD Vegas*
• 49) Karabacek 53) Kisakov
• 51) Guhle 54) Luukkonen
• 52) Bailey
• 56) Larsson
• 57) Carrier

 Murray also acquired Fasching and Adams Levi as targeted prospects who weren’t high picks. 2016 shows up twice as Adams oldest prospects and Murray’s furthest-away futures. 2022 picks are where they stand today, 2023 right dead centre of the round.

Its very interesting how similar the asset capital is.

Edited February 10, 2022 by dudacek