Isak Rosen News, Allsvenskan Eligible

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

The point is I don't want to hear about TOI....it's not tweet or post worthy. If the kid starts scoring good... But let's not celebrate TOI like he did something special.

Everything about this post is bad, from the "I don't wanna hear" all the way down to the straight up random "let's not celebrate". If you don't wanna hear don't read the thread, ppl don't only post here for your personal sabres fulfillment. Literally no one is celebrating or even excited, someone posted 1 tweet with no commentary that his toi was up, maybe take a step back. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by LGR4GM

[JoeSchmoe]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If you don't wanna hear don't read the thread

I opened the thread hoping for good news on the new tier 2 Swedish team.

[LGR4GM]

56 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I opened the thread hoping for good news on the new tier 2 Swedish team.

It's really odd that you think 18yr olds should be in the shl. It would be like if you expected all the chl draft picks to immediately go to the AHL and hated them when they didn't. 

[Two or less]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It's really odd that you think 18yr olds should be in the shl. It would be like if you expected all the chl draft picks to immediately go to the AHL and hated them when they didn't. 

I liked the pick at the time, but it is rare for a player to be drafted in the first round and just be totally over matched in the SHL like Rosen has been. He has 2 goals and 3 assists in 50 SHL games. I'm not expecting Alexander Holtz or Elias Petterson type numbers, but i surely didn't think he'd return to the SHL after the draft and put up nothing.

[LGR4GM]

45 minutes ago, Two or less said:

I liked the pick at the time, but it is rare for a player to be drafted in the first round and just be totally over matched in the SHL like Rosen has been. He has 2 goals and 3 assists in 50 SHL games. I'm not expecting Alexander Holtz or Elias Petterson type numbers, but i surely didn't think he'd return to the SHL after the draft and put up nothing.

Wasn't physically ready, like Luke Hughes in the NHL as a rookie

[Two or less]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Wasn't physically ready, like Luke Hughes in the NHL as a rookie

Yeah i get it. If you meant Jack, he still managed 7 goals and 14 assists in his first 60 NHL games. The best league in the world.

Again, not saying we shouldve expected 7g,14a from Rosen, but i think more then 2 goals and 2 assists wasn't much of a ask imo. We'll see how he does in the lower division and again next season.

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, Two or less said:

Yeah i get it. If you meant Jack, he still managed 7 goals and 14 assists in his first 60 NHL games. The best league in the world.

Again, not saying we shouldve expected 7g,14a from Rosen, but i think more then 2 goals and 2 assists wasn't much of a ask imo. We'll see how he does in the lower division and again next season.

Yes, sorry. Meant Jack Hughes

Jack Hughes probably got more toi but the point is about being able to physically compete at that level. Rosen isn't there and that's a problem, no idea if it's one he can correct or if that's the only issue. 

[Curt]

10 hours ago, Two or less said:

I liked the pick at the time, but it is rare for a player to be drafted in the first round and just be totally over matched in the SHL like Rosen has been. He has 2 goals and 3 assists in 50 SHL games. I'm not expecting Alexander Holtz or Elias Petterson type numbers, but i surely didn't think he'd return to the SHL after the draft and put up nothing.

Regarding the bolded:  Are you sure?  I feel like that is incorrect.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Regarding the bolded:  Are you sure?  I feel like that is incorrect.

Not sure of the big picture but recent D1 SHL seasons for 1st rounders:

• Eklund 9 points 14 games played
• Rosen 4/28
• Raymond 18/34
• Holtz 18/40
• Lundestrom 9/17
• Bokk 23/47
• Pettersen 56/44
• Anderson 19/42

So he’s definitely behind statistically.

It’s interesting that other recent 1st-round “tweeners” - Lysell, Olousson Holmstrom - left Sweden rather than be in Rosen’s situation.

Edited February 7, 2022 by dudacek

[Curt]

35 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not sure of the big picture but recent D1 SHL seasons for 1st rounders:

• Eklund 9 points 14 games played
• Rosen 4/28
• Raymond 18/34
• Holtz 18/40
• Lundestrom 9/17
• Bokk 23/47
• Pettersen 56/44
• Anderson 19/42

So he’s definitely behind statistically.

It’s interesting that other recent 1st-round “tweeners” - Lysell, Olousson Holmstrom - left Sweden rather than be in Rosen’s situation.

Hmm, seems that staying in Sweden may have been a strategic miscalculation.  Did Rosen predict that he would get more run in SHL?  Maybe he should come over to the CHL?

[LGR4GM]

55 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not sure of the big picture but recent D1 SHL seasons for 1st rounders:

• Eklund 9 points 14 games played
• Rosen 4/28
• Raymond 18/34
• Holtz 18/40
• Lundestrom 9/17
• Bokk 23/47
• Pettersen 56/44
• Anderson 19/42

So he’s definitely behind statistically.

It’s interesting that other recent 1st-round “tweeners” - Lysell, Olousson Holmstrom - left Sweden rather than be in Rosen’s situation.

You'd have to find TOI. The SHL is a pro league, they aren't out their to develop Rosen's but to win games. Sadly, I think he needed development and wasn't getting enough. 

[Flashsabre]

Did anyone draft him in the CHL draft? Would probably be best for his development to come over and player junior next year.

[Doohicksie]

17 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

But he’s an Olofsson.

Then why wasn't he drafted in the 7th round?  (Serious question.)

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Did anyone draft him in the CHL draft? Would probably be best for his development to come over and player junior next year.

Nah, leave him in the Allsven. I don't want him coming to Juniors as a 19yr old who can just rely on his skating to beat 17yr olds. I want him to face faster and stronger players so he has to work on other parts of his game. The SHL was simply too big a jump with not enough playing time. 

[Two or less]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You'd have to find TOI. The SHL is a pro league, they aren't out their to develop Rosen's but to win games. Sadly, I think he needed development and wasn't getting enough. 

His team is 8th in the league, in a 14 team league. Second best scoring team though. TOI won't really be that helpful either because majority of his time on ice has been on the PP. It's not like he's plugged on the 4th line like a Andrew Peters and plays limited minutes. They don't trust him on EV and use him on the PP and he still can't get points.

[inkman]

Make this thread die already.  My god. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Two or less said:

His team is 8th in the league, in a 14 team league. Second best scoring team though. TOI won't really be that helpful either because majority of his time on ice has been on the PP. It's not like he's plugged on the 4th line like a Andrew Peters and plays limited minutes. They don't trust him on EV and use him on the PP and he still can't get points.

From what I am seeing the majority of his TOI was at even strength. He was at a whopping 8.37min a night. 

His scoring profile compares to Zion Nybeck. It is significantly below someone like Holtz or Raymond in their D1 year but they were getting more minutes of ev toi and yes pp. Still we should be somewhat concerned about Rosen, I think the biggest issue is his lack of strength and that keeps him from succeeding. Zion Nybeck is another smaller forward that did much better once assigned to the Allsvenskan. Nybeck had 7pts in 39SHL games and then put up 16 points in the 25 Allsvenskan games he has played since. 

Rosen's issue isn't skill but strength, if he doesn't build any he will fail. However if he somehow adds 30lbs in the next 3 years, that is a player I would love to see. He will be 19 in March, I urge some patience while recognizing he has some flags. 

 

Oh and before someone says it, I am well aware of where Nybeck was drafted but that is irrelevant now. As I have stated I liked a couple players above Rosen but Rosen is who we have so let's see what he does. 

[DarthEbriate]

8 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Then why wasn't he drafted in the 7th round?  (Serious question.)

The consensus was that Rosen was being drafted in the 1st round. His overall skills, vision, etc. was very well regarded. He may have been a reach by a few picks, but he wasn't out of nowhere. It's just a matter of reaching the potential.

My mention of Olofsson is that he might need years of development time in game and strength. Olofsson always had the cannon shot but he needed years to develop into a player. Next thing we knew he was leading the SHL in goals. Then an Amerk. And up until he got hurt this season he was arguably our best forward (and really had dismissed the notion he was only a PP specialist). So my thoughts on Rosen are that he might just be the "high upside" who we don't see for 3 or 4 years and then...  wham, he just arrives ready to go.

[bob_sauve28]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

Make this thread die already.  My god. 

Maybe the Sabres will actually play a hockey game sometime soon so we won't have to obsess over a 98 pound weakling playing somewhere over in Europe 🗣️

[Doohicksie]

11 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

up until he got hurt this season he was arguably our best forward

This I agree with.

[LGR4GM]

Rosen was ranked as the Sabres 6th best prospect behind Power, Krebs, Quinn, Levi, and JJ.

[woods-racer]

This will be mostly personal opinion as I have no idea the truth behind it but....

Do scouts look at the parents and try to determine future growth of a 17 year old?

I believe the answer is a big YES. They look at the player now and then the parents to get a glimpse of the future body build of their prospect. 

Who here knows the stats on mom and dad? 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Rosen was ranked as the Sabres 6th best prospect behind Power, Krebs, Quinn, Levi, and JJ.

Wheeler also promising a deeper dive into Rosen’s game soon.

[Flashsabre]

53 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

This will be mostly personal opinion as I have no idea the truth behind it but....

Do scouts look at the parents and try to determine future growth of a 17 year old?

I believe the answer is a big YES. They look at the player now and then the parents to get a glimpse of the future body build of their prospect. 

Who here knows the stats on mom and dad? 

Yes, this has been mentioned many times by GMs and scouts. They look at the family to get an idea on both mental and physical makeup.

If a kid is 5’6 and his parents are 5’2 and 5’5 then they have a good idea on growth. If a kid is 5’9 but his dad and brother are 6’2 then there is chance for growth. They look at frame and body types too.

It is not a perfect strategy but I know they do lol at it for indicators.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, woods-racer said:

This will be mostly personal opinion as I have no idea the truth behind it but....

Do scouts look at the parents and try to determine future growth of a 17 year old?

I believe the answer is a big YES. They look at the player now and then the parents to get a glimpse of the future body build of their prospect. 

Who here knows the stats on mom and dad? 

His father is 6' 198lbs at 47 years old

His uncle is 6'3" 214lbs at 54 years old