Current cap space, will we use it?

[dudacek]

In announcing the hiring of Patrick Allvin as his new Canucks GM, Jim Rutherford dropped a nugget about the troubling reality of being out of the playoffs and hard up against the cap.

I listened to Vancouver radio today spend a lot of time on what a team like Vancouver could do to fix that (sell overpaid players at discount prices, or pay other teams to take bad players). Then they went on to talk about how hard that is with Cap space at such a premium around the league.

I have watched the pains Kevyn Adams has taken to put the Sabres in the best possible place in terms of cap space and have been patiently waiting to see if, and how, he will take advantage of it.

15 NHL teams are too tight against the cap right now to add even 1 minimum wage player and 5 others are close enough that they don't really have much flexibility. The majority of those are using LTIR to comply. The cap isn't going to grow next year. Loading up for a playoff run at the deadline for a Vegas or Tampa or St. Louis, or tearing down in order to launch a rebuild next year for a Philly or Vancouver or Montreal will require finding a partner willing to sell you some space.

The Sabres, with $12.6 million in cap space right now and only 11 NHLers under contract for next year are in the best position of any team in the league to take advantage.

They aren't alone. Arizona, Columbus and Detroit have certainly put themselves in a similar position and 6 other teams could play that game if they are so inclined.

I need to see Adams take advantage of this opportunity and add some picks for other teams junk, or a helpful player that another team can no longer afford at a discount price, or anything at all for laundering another team's big trade. Otherwise, it's an opportunity wasted.

What do you think he will, or should, do?

https://www.capfriendly.com/

Edited January 27, 2022 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

The first thing they teach you in law school is that the answer to all questions is it depends.

1) Will TP loosen the purse strings? If TP says he can’t spend money then I doubt we use the cap space.

2) Where does KA want the kids to play? Buffalo or Rochester? If he wants the kids in the NHL after he moves out some of the vets, then again only enough contract’s return to keep us cap compliant.

3) Can he get players who will help next season at the deadline?  Could a goaltender fall in our lap or a RHD with term? 

Best case scenario: TP loosens the purse strings and gives KA the freedom to improve the team in anyway he sees fit.   I don’t think he’ll take any contracts with term  unless he can get a goaltender or a veteran D with tread left on the tire.

[inkman]

Free Agency in the NHL is almost always a failure. 

[dudacek]

Just now, inkman said:

Free Agency in the NHL is almost always a failure. 

Free agency would be the last thing I would like to see done with this cap space.

[Brawndo]

They could be a third party broker for teams looking to make trades at the deadline. 
 

For example Claude Giroux, in the last year of His Deal at 8.3 Million. Colorado is interested in Him but cannot absorb the cap hit. 
Philly retains 50% and trades Him to Colorado through Buffalo, with the Sabres retaining an additional 50% for a cap pick or prospect. This gets Colorado down to a more manageable cap hit of around 2 million. 
 

The actual outlay in terms of dollars would be around a million for the Sabres, so maybe ownership approves.

Lance Lysowski mentioned a potential one year target for the Sabres in Matt Dumba as a Summer Minnesota Wild Cap Dump at Six Million. He does have a 10 team no trade list, but a chance to play with Dahlin or Power for half a season might be enticing to him. His caveat would probably be he would be moved at the TDL for probably a First with the Sabres retaining salary. 

[PerreaultForever]

Third party broker would be a good option. A bad contract or two (as long as they weren't long) to add some prospects also good. Trading for a good, but perhaps overpaid player. There are a multitude of possibilities. I think it will tell us a little about the time line though. If they do not use it, and/or do not add in free agency anything significant, then we pretty much know Terry has tightened the purse strings and this is a long term build.

I would like to see some aggressive moves to fill the holes and speed this thing up myself. I don't want to wait 3-4 more years to compete. Levi and UPL might be our long term future, but we need a goalie now. Even somebody average, but consistent, for the next 2-3 years, but we need a goalie. (among other things)

Creativity is needed. Speaking of Vancouver, Bruins seriously interested in Miller but have no space so maybe we take DeBrusk and somebody for cheap so they can do that. Not that I really want DeBrusk, but he might fit in with the style we are supposedly planning on and if the steal deal can be made for economic reasons, why not? I'm sure there are other similar possibilities among the contenders. 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Philly retains 50% and trades Him to Colorado through Buffalo, with the Sabres retaining an additional 50% for a cap pick or prospect. This gets Colorado down to a more manageable cap hit of around 2 million. 

You realize the most salary that can be retained on a player is 50% total, right?  If Philly retains 50%, Buffalo cannot retain any.  The percentage retained cannot exceed 50% of the player’s salary (including all bonuses) and Salary Cap Hit.

[dudacek]

Not really interested in Debrusk per se, but a player of his age and contract status that fits long-term like Tuch, sure.

Also,  more than happy to take on a guy one year away from UFA as a cap dump who can fill a role next year like Hagg did this year. Payment to take a Hagg on a bad salary, or I’ll pay you for a discount better player.

 

[Brawndo]

5 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

You realize the most salary that can be retained on a player is 50% total, right?  If Philly retains 50%, Buffalo cannot retain any.  The percentage retained cannot exceed 50% of the player’s salary (including all bonuses) and Salary Cap Hit.

This is incorrect, the maximum each club can retain is 50%. 
As you can see from last years TDL, both Detroit and San Jose retained 50% of Contracts and the original team Columbus  also retained 50%, this is from CapFriendly. 

[steveoath]

I would like to see Adams involved in cap laundering for picks/prospects. Nothing that hampers the team with a potential Sobotka-like anchor, but short term cap circumvention for a contender to gain extra asset(s).

[French Collection]

I am definitely wanting them to use this space.

If they move out Miller, Butcher, Hinestroza or others, they will probably need to take on salary to stay above the cap floor.

The Giroux move is a great example. The Sabres retain a million as a third party team allowing the Avs to get an impact player. This could be worth a third round pick. The Sabres could add a 2nd to the Avs and get a prospect like Barron back instead of the 3rd. He was a 2020 1st rounder, RHD.

[Weave]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

In announcing the hiring of Patrick Allvin as his new Canucks GM, Jim Rutherford dropped a nugget about the troubling reality of being out of the playoffs and hard up against the cap.

I listened to Vancouver radio today spend a lot of time on what a team like Vancouver could do to fix that (sell overpaid players at discount prices, or pay other teams to take bad players). Then they went on to talk about how hard that is with Cap space at such a premium around the league.

I have watched the pains Kevyn Adams has taken to put the Sabres in the best possible place in terms of cap space and have been patiently waiting to see if, and how, he will take advantage of it.

15 NHL teams are too tight against the cap right now to add even 1 minimum wage player and 5 others are close enough that they don't really have much flexibility. The majority of those are using LTIR to comply. The cap isn't going to grow next year. Loading up for a playoff run at the deadline for a Vegas or Tampa or St. Louis, or tearing down in order to launch a rebuild next year for a Philly or Vancouver or Montreal will require finding a partner willing to sell you some space.

The Sabres, with $12.6 million in cap space right now and only 11 NHLers under contract for next year are in the best position of any team in the league to take advantage.

They aren't alone. Arizona, Columbus and Detroit have certainly put themselves in a similar position and 6 other teams could play that game if they are so inclined.

I need to see Adams take advantage of this opportunity and add some picks for other teams junk, or a helpful player that another team can no longer afford at a discount price, or anything at all for laundering another team's big trade. Otherwise, it's an opportunity wasted.

What do you think he will, or should, do?

https://www.capfriendly.com/

My preference is definitely for a helpful player that another team can no longer afford.  I’ll take an overpriced but still good player as long as the remaining term isn’t hurtful.

But I am open to a 1yr cap dump for a pick/prospect.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

This is incorrect, the maximum each club can retain is 50%. 
As you can see from last years TDL, both Detroit and San Jose retained 50% of Contracts and the original team Columbus  also retained 50%, this is from CapFriendly. 

Me trying to understand the CBA:

[sabresparaavida]

2 hours ago, French Collection said:

I am definitely wanting them to use this space.

If they move out Miller, Butcher, Hinestroza or others, they will probably need to take on salary to stay above the cap floor.

The Giroux move is a great example. The Sabres retain a million as a third party team allowing the Avs to get an impact player. This could be worth a third round pick. The Sabres could add a 2nd to the Avs and get a prospect like Barron back instead of the 3rd. He was a 2020 1st rounder, RHD.

If they are retaining salary on those, I think we wouldn’t really need to add cap. I think the Boychuck trade gave us some flexibility to lose a bit of salary and being alright.

[mjd1001]

11 hours ago, inkman said:

Free Agency in the NHL is almost always a failure. 

Agreed.

Free agency should be used only in 2 cases:

-You have a MAJOR hole in you can get a 2nd or 3rd tier free agent to fill that MAJOR hole that you know will be an improvement, but only if that 2nd/3rd tier guy comes at an affordable price.

-You are a cup contender, not a playoff contender but a CUP CONTENDER, and you can over pay for that #1 free agent guy that you think has a chance of turning you from a cup contender to a cup winner.

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Yes.

He will clearly sign 16 more goalies at $750,000 each and save the $600,000 left over for a real rainy day.

[Broken Ankles]

2 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Me trying to understand the CBA:

From Puckpedia - 50% max, per team but also two teams can retain that contract. 

When teams trade a player, they can retain, or keep, some of the players' salary and cap hit.  The team keeps a % of both the cap hit and salary for the remainder of the contract. 

Therefore, if a Player with a Salary of $2.0M and a Cap Hit/AAV of $3.0M is traded with 20% retention, the trading team would continue to pay 20% of the $2.0M Salary and would continue to have a cap hit of 20% of the $3.0M Cap Hit.

The maximum retention % is 50%.

Teams can only carry a maximum of 3 Retained Salaries at a time.  

An individual contract can only have a maximum of 2 teams retaining salary on it.

The maximum amount of retained salary by a team is 15% of the Salary Cap for the current year.

If a team retains salary on a traded player and that player is later sent to the minors, there is no change to the cap hit for the retaining team. 

If a team retains salary on a trade, they cannot reacquire that player for one year from the date of the transaction, unless the contract ends prior to one year. 

[msw2112]

If they want to use cap space to overpay a veteran player for the short term (1-2 years), I am OK with that.  We need quality veterans on the roster while the kids develop.  A goalie would be particularly helpful.  What they should not do is take on long-term contracts for overpaid players.  I'm glad that Skinner and Okposo are playing well this year and are assets to the team, but their contracts are brutal and we don't need more of those.

I'm also OK with some of the cap/money laundering ideas mentioned above to gain some future assets.  I don't have the brain power right now to read and understand how it all works, but I get the general idea and think it would be beneficial to the team.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Broken Ankles said:

The maximum retention % is 50%.

Teams can only carry a maximum of 3 Retained Salaries at a time.  

An individual contract can only have a maximum of 2 teams retaining salary on it.

Yep, I saw that and another explanation from a different site.  The maximum retention % is 50%.  I read that as the most that can collectively be retained on a player is 50% (like 25% by one team, 25% by another).  @Brawndo demonstrated with examples that my reading comprehension is lacking.

[Brawndo]

21 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Yep, I saw that and another explanation from a different site.  The maximum retention % is 50%.  I read that as the most that can collectively be retained on a player is 50% (like 25% by one team, 25% by another).  @Brawndo demonstrated with examples that my reading comprehension is lacking.

I remember Detroit and San Jose doing this last year and had hoped the Sabres would jump in as well. They are  one of the few teams that can do it this year. 

[pi2000]

Use it to fill out the roster and upgrade the goaltender position, but don't spend to the cap.   

They won't be contenders next season so they need to continue to grow from within, draft , develop, and use money to keep guys they like.

Don't be tempted to jumpstart the rebuild by signing one or two big name UFAs.... now is not the time.

[Taro T]

Should Adams weaponize his cap space?  Absolutely.  Expect he will to a minor degree but am hoping to see him use up to $6MM (if the additional return is worth it) this current season & next season to bring in more legit assets.  Would be OK w/ $2-3MM of that extending 1 additional year but nothing beyond that.

Preferences are: 1 as a 3rd party retaining salary this year;

2 bringing in a vet w/ at most 1 additional year on his deal for a legit prospect; and

3 bringing in a vet w/ at most 1 additional year on his deal for at least a 2nd round pick & preferably a 1st.

[Thorner]

16 hours ago, dudacek said:

In announcing the hiring of Patrick Allvin as his new Canucks GM, Jim Rutherford dropped a nugget about the troubling reality of being out of the playoffs and hard up against the cap.

I listened to Vancouver radio today spend a lot of time on what a team like Vancouver could do to fix that (sell overpaid players at discount prices, or pay other teams to take bad players). Then they went on to talk about how hard that is with Cap space at such a premium around the league.

I have watched the pains Kevyn Adams has taken to put the Sabres in the best possible place in terms of cap space and have been patiently waiting to see if, and how, he will take advantage of it.

15 NHL teams are too tight against the cap right now to add even 1 minimum wage player and 5 others are close enough that they don't really have much flexibility. The majority of those are using LTIR to comply. The cap isn't going to grow next year. Loading up for a playoff run at the deadline for a Vegas or Tampa or St. Louis, or tearing down in order to launch a rebuild next year for a Philly or Vancouver or Montreal will require finding a partner willing to sell you some space.

The Sabres, with $12.6 million in cap space right now and only 11 NHLers under contract for next year are in the best position of any team in the league to take advantage.

They aren't alone. Arizona, Columbus and Detroit have certainly put themselves in a similar position and 6 other teams could play that game if they are so inclined.

I need to see Adams take advantage of this opportunity and add some picks for other teams junk, or a helpful player that another team can no longer afford at a discount price, or anything at all for laundering another team's big trade. Otherwise, it's an opportunity wasted.

What do you think he will, or should, do?

https://www.capfriendly.com/

Agree they should definitely utilize it, good post.

I feel like we’ve contemplated this scenario before without it coming home to roost for us, though, so hopefully this time is different 

[mjd1001]

Don't 'use' your cap space just to 'use it', don't use it until you need to.

Plan how you are going to sign long term deals to what you identify as your core.  If that means you are under the cap for the next few years then fine. Don't force anything.

The only thing I'd like to see this year and next year is if...some team that is tight against the cap at the deadline or offseason needs to utilize 'your' cap space.  A team needs to dump high, expiring contract someplace....then take that player for a year...as long as that other team is going to give a quality young asset with it...or maybe flip their 2nd rounder to you for a 5th or 6th rounder for you doing so.

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Don't 'use' your cap space just to 'use it', don't use it until you need to.

Plan how you are going to sign long term deals to what you identify as your core.  If that means you are under the cap for the next few years then fine. Don't force anything.

The only thing I'd like to see this year and next year is if...some team that is tight against the cap at the deadline or offseason needs to utilize 'your' cap space.  A team needs to dump high, expiring contract someplace....then take that player for a year...as long as that other team is going to give a quality young asset with it...or maybe flip their 2nd rounder to you for a 5th or 6th rounder for you doing so.

Which is why they shouldn't be taking on multi-year bad contracts.  But cap space is an expiring asset - when the season ends, that unused cap space expires and has $0 value.  

There are teams that want to add to their roster THIS season.  Use some of that ridiculous cap space available to them to let a team exceed the cap this year & collect a rent that will improve the team moving forward.  Pretty sure Adams retained salary on both Hall & Staal, so he & ownership aren't opposed to it if it makes sense.

The more thought that goes into this, the more interesting the trade deadline becomes.  Was pretty sure it would be completely uneventful for the Sabres this year, but we might see them end up w/ some useful pieces for essentially nothing but the owners' money.  (Not expecting any awesome deals, but if they add another couple of 2nds or a 2nd & a 3rd maybe they can use those to get into a spot they want to be in the upcoming or the next draft.