This team's problem is not a lack of talent

[Pimlach]

More and better talent should lead to more consistent play, assuming the coaching is good and player effort is there. 

More consistent play shows what talent we really have. Right now the overall talent looks quite limited  

I lean toward believing the bigger problem is talent.  That Tampa game showed us a lot.  There are playoff contending teams and then there are the real Cup contenders.  We are still not playoff contending.  How far are we from Detroit?  Not very far I say.  Get better goaltending, some better veteran support on the blue line, and allow the young forwards develop. 
 

Let’s not forget goaltending.  We are in the games when the goaltending is good, even when the rest of the team is not consistent, great goaltending can make a big difference.  

Edited January 14, 2022 by Pimlach

[Hawerchuk]

5 hours ago, Slack_in_MA said:

With regard to Covid, is there a statistic somewhere out there that would demonstrate that Buffalo has been affected more adversely than most teams? Isn't everyone dealing with it to some degree?

Good call. Kind of like "MAN GAMES LOST" stat.

[mjd1001]

No, the problem is lack of talent.

[PromoTheRobot]

5 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

No, the problem is lack of talent.

Half the current roster won't be here next season.

[Mustache of God]

The Sabres aren't the only team dealing with COVID. The problem is 100% talent related.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Slack_in_MA said:

Is there a good recent analogy of another team that has successfully navigated a very similar strategy to the one we believe Adams is undertaking? How long did it take until they were a playoff contender? 
 

If  there’s another thread where this has already been discussed, let me know and I’ll read through it.

It's a well-worn path. A lot of Stanley Cup winners since I've been watching hockey started out bad, then accumulated and developed a core of talented youngsters that grew up together, then added to it as needed, following this path.

Certainly the Islanders, Oilers, two editions of the Penguins, Red Wings, Blackhawks, Kings and Lightning. The last good Sabres team did the same thing.

And a lot of teams also try it and fail, like the Murray Sabres.

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

It will be nice to have a consistent roster play more than 2 games in a row.

That's my point. 

13 hours ago, pi2000 said:

One or two solid vets is enough.    Right now that's Okposo and probably Pysyk on the back-end, although I'd prefer bring in a higher quality veteran to mentor Power moving forward.   A former All-Star type who's won a Cup or at least has ample playoff experience.

Do you consider Tuch a quality veteran?

[Carmel Corn]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Half the current roster won't be here next season.

To me, this seems to be the sentiment we've been hearing every year for the past several.  We've been a revolving door of journeymen who have come and gone every year or so.  This may not be factually true, but just seems that way.

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, Slack_in_MA said:

With regard to Covid, is there a statistic somewhere out there that would demonstrate that Buffalo has been affected more adversely than most teams? Isn't everyone dealing with it to some degree?

I think all teams have been affected, but the impact of a given number of missing players has a bigger impact on a young, building team with a developing system and culture. The Sabres simply don't have the "organizational momentum" of a Pittsburgh or a Washington to keep them going in the absence of key players.

[PromoTheRobot]

9 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

That's my point. 

Do you consider Tuch a quality veteran?

He's the best Sabre right now.

[Doohicksie]

6 hours ago, nucci said:

better talent would mean more consistency...if your players are not that good lack of consistency is inevitable

Look at ERod in Pitt. Average talent, right? But he steps into the top line and puts up career numbers. Part of that is being in a playoff race and expectations, part of that organizational momentum I mentioned. 

3 hours ago, Dreams Burn Down said:

I love your new avatar. LOL!

Good "catch"!  😄

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

To me, this seems to be the sentiment we've been hearing every year for the past several.  We've been a revolving door of journeymen who have come and gone every year or so.  This may not be factually true, but just seems that way.

No it isn't. We weren't roster rebuilding under while Eichel was here. Not since Tim Murray flushed away our assets/prospects for Evander Kane and Robin Lehner. This is the first year we are embarking on a rebuild.

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

he needs to acquire good goaltending.

He has. It just isn't ripe yet.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, The Ghost of Yuri said:

He has. It just isn't ripe yet.

He needs to acquire current real NHL goaltending.

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, Slack_in_MA said:

Is there a good recent analogy of another team that has successfully navigated a very similar strategy to the one we believe Adams is undertaking? How long did it take until they were a playoff contender? 
 

If  there’s another thread where this has already been discussed, let me know and I’ll read through it.

Detroit seems comparable. I've read hockey pundits who say they're a year ahead of us. 

[LGR4GM]

26 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

To me, this seems to be the sentiment we've been hearing every year for the past several.  We've been a revolving door of journeymen who have come and gone every year or so.  This may not be factually true, but just seems that way.

It's the potential quality of what you are adding in Power, Quinn, Krebs, JJ, and Samuelsson 

Versus Hagg, Hayden, Caggiula, Bjork, and Butcher

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

It's a well-worn path. A lot of Stanley Cup winners since I've been watching hockey started out bad, then accumulated and developed a core of talented youngsters that grew up together, then added to it as needed, following this path.

Certainly the Islanders, Oilers, two editions of the Penguins, Red Wings, Blackhawks, Kings and Lightning. The last good Sabres team did the same thing.

And a lot of teams also try it and fail, like the Murray Sabres.

At the draft a couple of years ago when Yzerman returned to Detroit to take over their hockey operation he was asked by a reporter how was he going to get the Red Wings back to the level of the glory days. He succinctly said: Draft and develop. He then walked away. 

[French Collection]

37 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

He's the best Sabre right now.

I think Dahlin is the best Sabre.

[dudacek]

16 minutes ago, French Collection said:

I think Dahlin is the best Sabre.

Absolutely. Not even close, IMO.

@PromoTheRobot unless, things have seriously changed in the past month or so, does not even think Dahlin is good, let alone best.

[Dreams Burn Down]

28 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Absolutely. Not even close, IMO.

@PromoTheRobot unless, things have seriously changed in the past month or so, does not even think Dahlin is good, let alone best.

I agree.  I'll go further and say that Dahlin is only scratching the surface of his potential.  RK really set the kid back. As this season has progressed, what I'm seeing is him relearning how to trust his instincts, again.

[Thorner]

I agree with the OP, it’s definitely talent. (I assume the title was a typo)

- - -

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

No it isn't. We weren't roster rebuilding under while Eichel was here. Not since Tim Murray flushed away our assets/prospects for Evander Kane and Robin Lehner. This is the first year we are embarking on a rebuild.

Not to the extent Adams is, but Botterill has his “tear it down to the studs” period, complete with bottoming out for Dahlin.

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Absolutely. Not even close, IMO.

@PromoTheRobot unless, things have seriously changed in the past month or so, does not even think Dahlin is good, let alone best.

Dahlin of course, I’m not sure I’d have Tuch as one of our top 3 forwards.

He’s more of a mid-6 wing, looks like 

I’d say Cozens and Skinner have both been more effective, Thompson too 

[thewookie1]

Tuch is a Mid6 winger who is an incredible asset because he steps up his play in the playoffs. He’s the type of player you pretty much require in order to win a Stanley Cup, a Mid 6 winger who becomes a Top 6 winger in playoff competition.

Edited January 14, 2022 by thewookie1

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

Tuch is a Mid6 winger who is an incredible asset because he steps up his play in the playoffs. He’s the type of player you pretty much require in order to win a Stanley Cup, a Mid 6 winger who becomes a Top 6 winger in playoff competition.

I’ve made that same mistake. In Tuch’s prorated NHL seasons:

• 15/23/38
• 22/35/57
• 16/18/34
• 27/25/52

In the last full NHL season 57 points ranked 15th among right wings and 34 points ranked 44th. 27 goals ranked 12th and 16 goals ranked 41st.

On stats alone, Tuch is a clear top 6 winger. And stats certainly aren’t all he brings.

[DarthEbriate]

Tuch and Okposo returning to the lineup settled down the entire operation in Nashville.
 
As to the thread... Talent and consistency are linked. You have a talent when you consistently do something well. 
This team needs talented and consistent goaltending. And it needs it soon so that the skaters have something to show for their efforts. 

[Digger]

I hear the talent argument and agree but I think it's more.  We need our younger players that have talent and potential to reach their peak talent levels as quickly as possible.  We have not seen the peak for Cozens or Dahlin yet, hopefully we haven't seen the peak for Mittelstadt or Tage yet.  Quinn, Krebs, JJP, Power, Levi, etc. will take time to reach their peak years.

And then there's upgrading the talent for checking and penalty kill.  Filling out the D core with complementary support and mentoring with the young talent.  +++

It's talent but it's overall team mix.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Digger