Nylander traded to the Pens

[GASabresIUFAN]

https://theahl.com/penguins-acquire-nylander-from-blackhawks

.... and the journey continues.  Worst pick by TM and best trade by JBot?

[Digger]

I don't have much interest in Nylander anymore since we traded him but I do always look at talented players and wonder what it is that they are missing.  He had (has) a great deal of raw talent (skating, shooting).  Is it Lack of Character?  Poor Work Ethic?  Arrogance?  To me he should have had the talent to play in the NHL but he looks like he will not.

Don't get me wrong.  I hated it when we picked him.  I was convinced we were taking Chychrun or Sergachyov because we really needed more D-men.  Why did he fail?

[Huckleberry]

Didn't mind the pick at the time, but in back of my mind I was wondering when buffalo ever had the better brother.

Just now, Digger said:

I don't have much interest in Nylander anymore since we traded him but I do always look at talented players and wonder what it is that they are missing.  He had (has) a great deal of raw talent (skating, shooting).  Is it Lack of Character?  Poor Work Ethic?  Arrogance?  To me he should have had the talent to play in the NHL but he looks like he will not.

Don't get me wrong.  I hated it when we picked him.  I was convinced we were taking Chychrun or Sergachyov because we really needed more D-men.  Why did he fail?

Oh yeah, and we needed LHD at the time as well.  Sergachev was a huge miss from the start.   That being said he had a knee injury all of last year, I think he was injured twice in Buffalo.   Two long injuries in Chicago, and if he can't break into a top 6 spot...

Now with the pens they have 3 capable veteran centers to guide him.  

[Doohicksie]

43 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Now with the pens they have 3 capable veteran centers to guide him.  

Yeah but he got assigned to the A

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Didn't mind the pick at the time, but in back of my mind I was wondering when buffalo ever had the better brother.

Oh yeah, and we needed LHD at the time as well.  Sergachev was a huge miss from the start.   That being said he had a knee injury all of last year, I think he was injured twice in Buffalo.   Two long injuries in Chicago, and if he can't break into a top 6 spot...

Now with the pens they have 3 capable veteran centers to guide him.  

I used to think this.  We have had so many brothers over the years.  Ultimately that scales are somewhat in our favor.

We certainly had the better Miller brother.   We also drafted the better Turgeon, Playfair, McKegney, Biron, and Reinhart and so far the best Mittelstadt.  We also acquired the better Stanfield, Drury and Thompson brother.  DR acquired the better Pyatt (Taylor) in the Peca deal and Jbot acquired the better Gionta brother Brian. 

We drafted 3 glaring "lesser" brothers in Nylander, Primeau, and Gretzky, but Wayne Primeau had a very solid career.  Did you know that Wayne and Keith actually had an in game fight when Wayne played for the Sabres? We probably also drafted the lesser Seiling but it's close.  We drafted the lesser Foligno, but Marcus was still an excellent player for us.  Truthfully we should have also drafted Nick instead of Persson.  We also acquired the lesser Dryden.  I also don't think Gilles Hamel was a good as his brother Jean. We also now have the lesser Subban.  In all likelihood we drafted the lesser Guhle brother.

We drafted the lesser Moller and the lesser Patrick, but in both cases the better brother also played for the Sabres (James and Randy).  We also had both Sauve brothers (Bob drafted by us and JF signed as an UDFA) and both O'Reilly brothers. 

In the brief time in Buffalo category we have the following.  I'm not sure what to call Eric Staal's visit to Buffalo.  I do think Marc is the best of the Staal brothers, but all  3 brothers have had noteworthy careers.  We also briefly had the better Paiement, Nolan, and Regehr brother but the lesser Niedermayer.  The shortest stint for a brother is Colin Stuart's 5 games in Buffalo, which I don't even remember.  I need to mention him in the Obscure Thread.  His brother Mark was a solid D for Boston and WPG.  EDIT:  I forgot the great John Gould, whose 92 games for the Sabres were more then brother Larry's 2 total NHL games.

The crazy thing is that I remember most of these players.  I didn't remember Colin Stuart or that Jean Hamel was Gilles' brother.  Did I miss anyone?

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thwomp!]

Cal (little bro) O'Reilly ruined him.

[GASabresIUFAN]

We also should mention our 3 coaches whose brothers played in the NHL.  Ron Rolston is All-star Brian Rolston's older brother.  Current HC Don Granato is All-star Tony Granato's younger brother.  Neither Ron or Don played in the NHL.  Lastly, the great Marcel Pronovost, who was the Sabres coach for a season and a half in the late 1970s, was the best of the 3 NHL playing Pronovost brothers.  

[Digger]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I used to think this.  We have had so many brothers over the years.  Ultimately that scales are somewhat in our favor.

We certainly had the better Miller brother.   We also drafted the better Turgeon, Playfair, McKegney, Biron, and Reinhart and so far the best Mittelstadt.  We also acquired the better Stanfield, Drury and Thompson brother.  DR acquired the better Pyatt (Taylor) in the Peca deal and Jbot acquired the better Gionta brother Brian. 

We drafted 3 glaring "lesser" brothers in Nylander, Primeau, and Gretzky, but Wayne Primeau had a very solid career.  Did you know that Wayne and Keith actually had an in game fight when Wayne played for the Sabres? We probably also drafted the lesser Seiling but it's close.  We drafted the lesser Foligno, but Marcus was still an excellent player for us.  Truthfully we should have also drafted Nick instead of Persson.  We also acquired the lesser Dryden.  I also don't think Gilles Hamel was a good as his brother Jean. We also now have the lesser Subban.  In all likelihood we drafted the lesser Guhle brother.

We drafted the lesser Moller and the lesser Patrick, but in both cases the better brother also played for the Sabres (James and Randy).  We also had both Sauve brothers (Bob drafted by us and JF signed as an UDFA) and both O'Reilly brothers. 

In the brief time in Buffalo category we have the following.  I'm not sure what to call Eric Staal's visit to Buffalo.  I do think Marc is the best of the Staal brothers, but all  3 brothers have had noteworthy careers.  We also briefly had the better Paiement, Nolan, and Regehr brother but the lesser Niedermayer.  The shortest stint for a brother is Colin Stuart's 5 games in Buffalo, which I don't even remember.  I need to mention him in the Obscure Thread.  His brother Mark was a solid D for Boston and WPG.  EDIT:  I forgot the great John Gould, whose 92 games for the Sabres were more then brother Larry's 2 total NHL games.

The crazy thing is that I remember most of these players.  I didn't remember Colin Stuart or that Jean Hamel was Gilles' brother.  Did I miss anyone?

 

well done on the brother research. 

[Flashsabre]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I used to think this.  We have had so many brothers over the years.  Ultimately that scales are somewhat in our favor.

We certainly had the better Miller brother.   We also drafted the better Turgeon, Playfair, McKegney, Biron, and Reinhart and so far the best Mittelstadt.  We also acquired the better Stanfield, Drury and Thompson brother.  DR acquired the better Pyatt (Taylor) in the Peca deal and Jbot acquired the better Gionta brother Brian. 

We drafted 3 glaring "lesser" brothers in Nylander, Primeau, and Gretzky, but Wayne Primeau had a very solid career.  Did you know that Wayne and Keith actually had an in game fight when Wayne played for the Sabres? We probably also drafted the lesser Seiling but it's close.  We drafted the lesser Foligno, but Marcus was still an excellent player for us.  Truthfully we should have also drafted Nick instead of Persson.  We also acquired the lesser Dryden.  I also don't think Gilles Hamel was a good as his brother Jean. We also now have the lesser Subban.  In all likelihood we drafted the lesser Guhle brother.

We drafted the lesser Moller and the lesser Patrick, but in both cases the better brother also played for the Sabres (James and Randy).  We also had both Sauve brothers (Bob drafted by us and JF signed as an UDFA) and both O'Reilly brothers. 

In the brief time in Buffalo category we have the following.  I'm not sure what to call Eric Staal's visit to Buffalo.  I do think Marc is the best of the Staal brothers, but all  3 brothers have had noteworthy careers.  We also briefly had the better Paiement, Nolan, and Regehr brother but the lesser Niedermayer.  The shortest stint for a brother is Colin Stuart's 5 games in Buffalo, which I don't even remember.  I need to mention him in the Obscure Thread.  His brother Mark was a solid D for Boston and WPG.  EDIT:  I forgot the great John Gould, whose 92 games for the Sabres were more then brother Larry's 2 total NHL games.

The crazy thing is that I remember most of these players.  I didn't remember Colin Stuart or that Jean Hamel was Gilles' brother.  Did I miss anyone?

 

I think the lesser Gretzky is debatable.😜😁

[Pimlach]

12 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I used to think this.  We have had so many brothers over the years.  Ultimately that scales are somewhat in our favor.

We certainly had the better Miller brother.   We also drafted the better Turgeon, Playfair, McKegney, Biron, and Reinhart and so far the best Mittelstadt.  We also acquired the better Stanfield, Drury and Thompson brother.  DR acquired the better Pyatt (Taylor) in the Peca deal and Jbot acquired the better Gionta brother Brian. 

We drafted 3 glaring "lesser" brothers in Nylander, Primeau, and Gretzky, but Wayne Primeau had a very solid career.  Did you know that Wayne and Keith actually had an in game fight when Wayne played for the Sabres? We probably also drafted the lesser Seiling but it's close.  We drafted the lesser Foligno, but Marcus was still an excellent player for us.  Truthfully we should have also drafted Nick instead of Persson.  We also acquired the lesser Dryden.  I also don't think Gilles Hamel was a good as his brother Jean. We also now have the lesser Subban.  In all likelihood we drafted the lesser Guhle brother.

We drafted the lesser Moller and the lesser Patrick, but in both cases the better brother also played for the Sabres (James and Randy).  We also had both Sauve brothers (Bob drafted by us and JF signed as an UDFA) and both O'Reilly brothers. 

In the brief time in Buffalo category we have the following.  I'm not sure what to call Eric Staal's visit to Buffalo.  I do think Marc is the best of the Staal brothers, but all  3 brothers have had noteworthy careers.  We also briefly had the better Paiement, Nolan, and Regehr brother but the lesser Niedermayer.  The shortest stint for a brother is Colin Stuart's 5 games in Buffalo, which I don't even remember.  I need to mention him in the Obscure Thread.  His brother Mark was a solid D for Boston and WPG.  EDIT:  I forgot the great John Gould, whose 92 games for the Sabres were more then brother Larry's 2 total NHL games.

The crazy thing is that I remember most of these players.  I didn't remember Colin Stuart or that Jean Hamel was Gilles' brother.  Did I miss anyone?

 

Cliff Schmautz.  Not as good as brother Bobby. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Cliff Schmautz.  Not as good as brother Bobby. 

A fixture on the AHL Buffalo Bisons back in the day.

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

A fixture on the AHL Buffalo Bisons back in the day.

He played for the Sabres for part of the first  season. 

[LGR4GM]

12 hours ago, Thwomp! said:

Cal (little bro) O'Reilly ruined him.

Yea, I remember hearing stuff about this. What exactly happened btw Cal and Alex in the AHL?

[Doohicksie]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yea, I remember hearing stuff about this. What exactly happened btw Cal and Alex in the AHL?

Rumor was just that Cal was just a hard-ass and rode Alex needlessly.

(as I recall)

[Doohicksie]

13 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We certainly had the better Miller brother. 

It wasn't.

[SwampD]

Just now, The Ghost of Yuri said:

It wasn't.

I guess I meant overlooked by me.😂

[Doohicksie]

Pretty much  😉

[mjd1001]

Is he likely a bust? probably, but I'm not 100% there on him yet.

Last year he was on a 82 game pace for just short of 15 goals and about 30-35 points.  Not an offensive powerhouse, but yet that isn't nothing.

If, IF, he is a late bloomer or just 'gets' the NHL game in the next year or two, he still might turn out to be a somewhat productive player. Do I think that will happen?  No I don't, but I won't rule it out 100% yet.

[Doohicksie]

He could be JAG+.  Enough to get some time around the league but not top six material.  Is that a bust?  Compared to Sabres expectations, yes, but our expectations are always too high  😉

I was watching The Hockey Guy on YouTube last night and he did a video on things he's learned doing the channel.  One thing he commented on (and I have to admit that we see plenty of that around here) is that prospects are projected very high by fan bases of the teams.  They get to the AHL and everyone expects them to develop and mature and turn into stars, so they speak very highly of them.  Then they get to the NHL and for most players it takes a while to adjust to the speed and grit of the higher league so very few players step right in and hit their ceilings, and at that point the fan bases often turn on them and call them busts.  Then a half season or a season later they hit their stride but they already have the reputation of failure with the fans. 

This is almost exactly my arc on Cozens.  Although he made the jump directly from the WHL to the NHL and bypassed the A, I will admit that I was kind of underwhelmed when he got here.  It was only that stretch where he took on the top lines from Edmonton, TO and Pittsburgh and looked good doing it, that I've started to see him unlock his potential.

Edited January 6, 2022 by The Ghost of Yuri

[stinky finger]

4 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

I think the lesser Gretzky is debatable.😜😁

Agree - numbers don’t always tell the whole story. 

[Doohicksie]

I hear Keith Gretzky is the better cook.

[Hawerchuk]

Nylander never went to the hard areas to score and he seemed to never battled for pucks much. A perimeter player and the Sabres got a "F" for the draft choice. But the return was definitely a upgrade with Henri Jokiharju in my book. So Buffalo won that trade.

[Gatorman0519]

The draft is such a crap shoot.  Sometimes some of the best analytics and scouting cannot guarantee a player will make it in the big league. 

[LGR4GM]

37 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

The draft is such a crap shoot.  Sometimes some of the best analytics and scouting cannot guarantee a player will make it in the big league. 

Ppl really need to stop saying this. It makes it sound like there is nothing you can do and you might as well just guess but we have long sustained periods of teams blatantly outdrafting others. Carolina is in a period right now. Sure some of the guys will absolutely bust but I'd bet money the percent of players that hit per draft will be higher for Carolina than say... Montreal. 

Case in point, analytics is how you get Seth Jarvis instead of say Tyson Foerster. It is how you know not to draft Tyler Boucher at 10 instead of Cole Sillinger. 

It's how you know to draft Mikhail Sergachev at 8 instead of Alex Nylander. 

[Dreams Burn Down]

58 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Ppl really need to stop saying this. It makes it sound like there is nothing you can do and you might as well just guess but we have long sustained periods of teams blatantly outdrafting others. Carolina is in a period right now. Sure some of the guys will absolutely bust but I'd bet money the percent of players that hit per draft will be higher for Carolina than say... Montreal. 

Case in point, analytics is how you get Seth Jarvis instead of say Tyson Foerster. It is how you know not to draft Tyler Boucher at 10 instead of Cole Sillinger. 

It's how you know to draft Mikhail Sergachev at 8 instead of Alex Nylander. 

I really try to avoid generalizations in life, but I get swept up into this at times.  Now that KA seems to be assembling a real team (analytically, etc.), maybe we can begin to consistently hit on our picks, top to bottom.  It feels a bit hopeless and like a crap shoot when we've had who we've had in key leadership positions, even in the recent past.