GDT: Buffalo at Carolina, 4 Dec 2021, 7:30 pm ET, MSG, WGR

[nucci]

Just now, Kr632 said:

Yes the owners. Not KA which is my entire point. He's cleaning up the mess of owners and former GMs. This is his 2nd year cleaning up a team that has finished last in the league what three times in last 6 years and it's top players all wanted out at the same time. It takes time to fix a mess like that. Expecting him to do it in a year and a half is unrealistic

I don't think I criticized Adams in my posts. If I did I didn't mean to. He does bear a bit of responsibility for the goaltending mess, though

[Kr632]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Understanding reality is even better. You don’t even understand how waivers works, so  how can you begin to criticize the GM? 
 

I am not anti-Adams btw, but I will call out his shortcomings.  His handling of Ullmark and our goaltending has been terrible and it is holding back the other good work he has done.    
 

Watch the games.  Look at the mistakes all over the ice.  They weren’t there the first month.  
 

Adams is in danger of his players quitting, which puts the coach in a very bad position.  

I completely understand how waivers work but I also understand that these players are people and can say no. Where did I criticize the GM?  

So Adams has said since he got here that he wants players that want to be here. What sense would it make to bring in someone that he knew didn't want to be here even if it is on waivers and the player has "no choice"? Now he looks like a liar to the team, adds a cancer to the room to influence the kids and we're back to where we were with Murray 

[Taro T]

Just now, JohnC said:

I'm not sure that prior to free agency that KA knew what caliber of goalie he was going to be. Or whether at that point he wanted to make a conclusive judgment about him as his franchise goalie. Was it the wrong decision? It certainly was because he didn't seem too interested in finding better options.  That's the source of my complaint about the GM on this issue. 

As you indicate how things have turned out only makes sense if the plan was to tank. And I have no doubt that the Pegulas would be receptive to this strategy because in the short run the contract obligations would be much smaller than if this focused on winning in the present. 

 

 

If you're right that Adams didn't know what caliber of a goalie Ullmark would be, then he needs to recuse himself from all goaltending decisions in the future.  He's been peripheral to the team at a minimum during Ullmark's entire time in the Sabres system and was running the team his last year there.  He had all the data necessary to make that assessment.  If he couldn't figure it out, Lord help us.

Thing is, really believe that development IS roughly as big a goal as the stealth tank is.  But by not having competent goaltending the dichotomy of the 2 goals can't be bridged IMHO.  And that development goal is on the verge of being torpedoed.  (Hopefully that's overly reactionary to the past 3 games, but expecting it isn't.  The fear is that Dahlin's the canary in the coal mine.  Still hoping, but not very hopeful at present.)

[Kr632]

5 minutes ago, nucci said:

I don't think I criticized Adams in my posts. If I did I didn't mean to. He does bear a bit of responsibility for the goaltending mess, though

I am talking about KA. You replied to me so I continued my point. I agree with the goaltending being his responsibility but it looks like it's by design. 

[Gatorman0519]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Yes.   But not. every team needed a goalie.  Buffalo did and they missed the opportunity to grab a goalie. 
 

There is no defense for this abomination of a franchise. None at all.  Everyone in the Sabres organization is accountable for this season, especially Adams.   There should be no blaming the past.   Adams took the job and he will be evaluated on results going forward. 
 

If Adams isn’t checking waivers every day and on the phone constantly looking to improve this team then he is not doing his job. Waiting until next year will not work, you never get there.  
 

He brought in ANOTHER AHL goalie.  But he got him for free  -  Economic, just like Terry wants   

 

Right.  It is year 3.  Year 3 and we still are a bottom 5 team. In normal franchises, he would be on the hot seat next year.

[Pimlach]

9 minutes ago, Kr632 said:

I completely understand how waivers work but I also understand that these players are people and can say no. Where did I criticize the GM?  

So Adams has said since he got here that he wants players that want to be here. What sense would it make to bring in someone that he knew didn't want to be here even if it is on waivers and the player has "no choice"? Now he looks like a liar to the team, adds a cancer to the room to influence the kids and we're back to where we were with Murray 

When will Adams be accountable for the on ice product?    You still have not told us.  So far you have said he inherited a mess. True.   You talk about a stealth tank.  I don’t see anything stealth about it.    
 

When will YOU consider Adams responsible and accountable?   Next year, year after that…. ?   

[SabresVet]

 

1 hour ago, Ross Rhea said:

I agree,  although I do think Anderson is a decent goalie, better than anyone that's been here in years, unfortunately he's hurt significantly, enough to miss substantial time, which isn't helping at all.

What kind of GM signs a 40 year old goalie and doesn't hedge that bet given the age of the player? Again, as has been illustrated by other posters here, Adams' planning left a lot to be desired.  40 year olds playing pro sports typically aren't dependable options outside of golf. 

 

[dudacek]

16 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Right.  It is year 3.  Year 3 and we still are a bottom 5 team. In normal franchises, he would be on the hot seat next year.

Second time I’ve seen someone post this.

It’s actually year 2. He’s been on the job since June of 2020.

[JohnC]

20 minutes ago, Taro T said:

If you're right that Adams didn't know what caliber of a goalie Ullmark would be, then he needs to recuse himself from all goaltending decisions in the future.  He's been peripheral to the team at a minimum during Ullmark's entire time in the Sabres system and was running the team his last year there.  He had all the data necessary to make that assessment.  If he couldn't figure it out, Lord help us.

Thing is, really believe that development IS roughly as big a goal as the stealth tank is.  But by not having competent goaltending the dichotomy of the 2 goals can't be bridged IMHO.  And that development goal is on the verge of being torpedoed.  (Hopefully that's overly reactionary to the past 3 games, but expecting it isn't.  The fear is that Dahlin's the canary in the coal mine.  Still hoping, but not very hopeful at present.)

Your fear is my fear that the reprise of the disillusionment of the prior core could/has ???? spread to the promising new core. When the youngsters see a former player such as Reinhart who wanted out and ends up in a cup contending situation that their acceptance to their current plight is even less tolerable. Do you know what is worse than being sabotaged? Self-sabotage! 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Second time I’ve seen someone post this.

It’s actually year 2. He’s been on the job since June of 2020.

Your time-line is accurate. That doesn't change the fact that his goalie decisions on his short watch have been damaging to the point of negatively reverberating beyond that one position. 

[Hank]

25 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

When will Adams be accountable for the on ice product?    

The 23/24 season.  

[Kr632]

25 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

When will Adams be accountable for the on ice product?    You still have not told us.  So far you have said he inherited a mess. True.   You talk about a stealth tank.  I don’t see anything stealth about it.    
 

When will YOU consider Adams responsible and accountable?   Next year, year after that…. ?   

You expect people to answer questions they haven't been asked? 

I stealth tank was another posters words that I used. But it is not as obvious as the last when we sold off anything of value. 

The situation is tough to judge but he's done some good(drafting) and some bad(goaltending). Ownership stripped him of a lot of resources, the top players were counting the days until they could leave, no good free agents want to play here, not many good coaches want to coach here. 

That takes some time to fix. I think it's closer than it looks. I would say next season we should be competing for playoffs if we aren't there's a problem. 

Goaltending and some upgrades on defense would go a long way. We have two defensive prospects that should be upgrades coming next year. Finding a good goalie is huge. But we should have ammo to do it. 

 

[dudacek]

53 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Your fear is my fear that the reprise of the disillusionment of the prior core could/has ???? spread to the promising new core. When the youngsters see a former player such as Reinhart who wanted out and ends up in a cup contending situation that their acceptance to their current plight is even less tolerable. Do you know what is worse than being sabotaged? Self-sabotage! 

Adams is a half-year into a traditional build-and-develop-from-within plan that generally has unfolded better than expected. Really, who would have bet on the Sabres being middle-of-the-pack in scoring and Thompson, Asplund, Power, Quinn, Peterka and Levi all making the leaps they have?

It seems so weird that he would risk all that on an Anderson/Dell/Tokarski crease and even weirder that he seems content to see that through.

Edited December 5, 2021 by dudacek

[Flashsabre]

I have a bad feeling that UPL is the golden child to Pegula. There were the rumours last year that Pegula wanted UPL to be the starter this year but he couldn’t come in and win the job.

It would explain a lot. Why Adams doesn’t want a goalie to “block anyone’s path” why they signed Anderson as insurance but didn’t do anything else to shore up the position.

[Pimlach]

35 minutes ago, Kr632 said:

You expect people to answer questions they haven't been asked? 

I stealth tank was another posters words that I used. But it is not as obvious as the last when we sold off anything of value. 

The situation is tough to judge but he's done some good(drafting) and some bad(goaltending). Ownership stripped him of a lot of resources, the top players were counting the days until they could leave, no good free agents want to play here, not many good coaches want to coach here. 

That takes some time to fix. I think it's closer than it looks. I would say next season we should be competing for playoffs if we aren't there's a problem. 

Goaltending and some upgrades on defense would go a long way. We have two defensive prospects that should be upgrades coming next year. Finding a good goalie is huge. But we should have ammo to do it. 

 

The answer is that Adams is accountable right now.  He will even say that.   This season is on him. 
 

I agree that Adams has done some good things and that ownership stripped down the organization.  I do like some of his moves to rebuild the FO, the Farm Team, and Analytics Dept.   

 

Goaltending was a total flub by Adams and it is the key to having any growth next year.  We cannot expect kids such as Power and Samuelsson to fix the defense though.  There needs to be a more stable veteran presence on the blue line.  

[dudacek]

38 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I have a bad feeling that UPL is the golden child to Pegula. There were the rumours last year that Pegula wanted UPL to be the starter this year but he couldn’t come in and win the job.

It would explain a lot. Why Adams doesn’t want a goalie to “block anyone’s path” why they signed Anderson as insurance but didn’t do anything else to shore up the position.

This has been my theory as well.

I think it’s pretty clear that the organization has annointed UPL, not as clear how universal the feeling is, who is driving that boat and how flexible they will be in that plan if UPL continues to cast doubt on his readiness.

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, Kr632 said:

Do you know for sure we didn't offer ullmark that deal? What if the plan is to have crap goaltending and tank again?

Then it's a stupid freaking plan, just like the last tank was.

 

2 hours ago, Kr632 said:

Yes really. I don't think you understand the words you're using. Saying no choice then giving a choice isn't exactly no choice. It happens all the time. The sports world isn't black and white like everyone thinks it is.

You would think with KA saying we want players that want to be here all the time that maybe he actually thinks that way

1 hour ago, Kr632 said:

It's been pretty obvious that this was the plan once ullmark signed in Boston and nobody else wanted to come here except the 750 club. Are you not paying attention?

This is a year to develop the prospects. For the most part they're playing pretty well.

Both of these are obnoxious.

[Kr632]

4 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Then it's a stupid freaking plan, just like the last tank was.

 

Both of these are obnoxious.

Cool bro

[triumph_communes]

This is what happens when Skinner is on a top like. The whole rest of the team loses accountability after letting bad break after bad break with no backcheck happen. Goalie situation making it worse, but everything got bad when Skinner got promoted. 
 

need to re unite 777 and banish Skinner

Edited December 5, 2021 by triumph_communes

[Believer]

11 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Understanding reality is even better. You don’t even understand how waivers works, so  how can you begin to criticize the GM? 
 

I am not anti-Adams btw, but I will call out his shortcomings.  His handling of Ullmark and our goaltending has been terrible and it is holding back the other good work he has done.    
 

Watch the games.  Look at the mistakes all over the ice.  They weren’t there the first month.  
 

Adams is in danger of his players quitting, which puts the coach in a very bad position.  

It’s Granato’s job to motivate the players and to keep them from quitting… Both he and the players say the locker room is committed to playing better… Need to put several wins together as evidence to back up the words… 

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, Believer said:

It’s Granato’s job to motivate the players and to keep them from quitting… Both he and the players say the locker room is committed to playing better… Need to put several wins together as evidence to back up the words… 

Good ####ing luck w/ putting together a string of wins if Dell & UPL are the keepers over the next few games.

[nucci]

9 hours ago, Believer said:

It’s Granato’s job to motivate the players and to keep them from quitting… Both he and the players say the locker room is committed to playing better… Need to put several wins together as evidence to back up the words… 

what are they supposed to say?