Does Rasmus Dahlin need a change of scenery?

[Crusader1969]

would you be happy if Dahlin turned into John Carlsson? Dougie Hamilton? Victor Hedman? Roman Josi? 

Dahlin is ahead of all of these players at the age of 21.

Relax, he will improve as the team improves. Though he may never turn into the "use in all" situations type defenseman but I have no doubt we will see seasons of 70 plus points in the near future.

[Thorner]

45 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

I’m not seeing anything unusually bad from Rasmus that I’m not seeing from every other guy on this team. 

Expectations relative. 

3 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Send him to Winnipeg. We'll give you Copp and a first.

Throw in Logan Stanley? 

Deal. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Thorny

[LabattBlue]

I’ll give him the 3 years of the current contract.  After that…all depends on where his play goes the next 2-1/2 years.  
 

That being said, I’m not blaming Krueger, the Sabres FO, Dahlin coming to NA, not having a mentor, or anything else from the excuse making machine that is fueled by his biggest supporters. 
 

It is all is on him to overcome the holes in his game and to want to become a great NHL defenseman.  Only time will tell. 

[Crusader1969]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Or just do what he's been doing and pushing him to play his game, attack, learn from his mistakes and have fun and grow into his role. Not being Krueger/Smith and handcuffing him and making him think too much or play away from his strengths.

Donnie told you all what he was going to do and he's doing it. And Dahlin has been better for it.

Last week, Rasmus was riding an 8-game streak streak of being a near-point-a-game plus player while getting the most minutes on the team, but no one was talking about it. He has an awful period and we get a thread about trading or benching or sending him to the minors.

It's sad.

the trails and tribulations of the young player.  Same with UPL - everyone wants immediate results cause Player X  came in at 21 and lit the league on fire   however its took 9 other guys till their mid 20s to develop   

[Hank]

I think in the 23/24 season Power-Dahlin will be a great top pairing that anchors a deep playoff run. I'm willing to wait and excited to watch them grow. 

[Thorner]

Just now, Crusader1969 said:

the trails and tribulations of the young player.  Same with UPL - everyone wants immediate results cause Player X  came in at 21 and lit the league on fire   however its took 9 other guys till their mid 20s to develop   

The thing is, there are positive results there already depending on where you look - Dahlin leads the team in assists. At his age that's still impressive, even given our roster. There's a lot of bad with a lot of good - I'm still eager to see how it plays out as opposed to worried. 

[Ducky]

19 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Expectations relative. 

Throw in Logan Stanley? 

Deal. 

Change the 1st to a 2nd but we don't have one until 2024?

Stanimal and a first.

 

That or Copper, 1st and Stanimal for Dahlin and a 2nd?

[Weave]

38 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

would you be happy if Dahlin turned into John Carlsson? Dougie Hamilton? Victor Hedman? Roman Josi? 

Dahlin is ahead of all of these players at the age of 21.

Relax, he will improve as the team improves. Though he may never turn into the "use in all" situations type defenseman but I have no doubt we will see seasons of 70 plus points in the near future.

Dahlin may be ahead of those players in offensive statistics, but where is he relative to them in defensive play?  This is where the dissatisfaction lies.

[thewookie1]

37 minutes ago, Weave said:

Dahlin may be ahead of those players in offensive statistics, but where is he relative to them in defensive play?  This is where the dissatisfaction lies.

Defensively he's better than Hamilton at this age; the other three weren't exactly seen as defensive stalwarts either at 21.

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by thewookie1

[Eleven]

He will always have the pressure of being a first overall pick.  It doesn't matter where he goes.

[pi2000]

This is nonsense, he has a 3 year contract.   

Close this thread until summer of 2023.

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Change of scenery, maybe not on the blue line

I’ll say this for the 500th time, nothing Dahlin does makes me think his skills would let him flourish at forward.  Not fast, mediocre shot, down for 3-5 costly turnovers a game. 

33 minutes ago, Eleven said:

He will always have the pressure of being a first overall pick.  It doesn't matter where he goes.

But it lets him start without the expectation of being Denis Potvin.  Danny Paille, former 1st rounder turned best 4th liner, PK specialist in the game.  

[Brawndo]

Here are some basic fancy stats to tell what type of seasons these three had in their Fourth Seasons in the league. 
Karlsson and Hedman’s Fourth Year we’re during the Lockout Shorten Season 

 

 

By April of 2023, I would make a decision on His Future with the team 

[sabresparaavida]

7 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Here are some basic fancy stats to tell what type of seasons these three had in their Fourth Seasons in the league. 
Karlsson and Hedman’s Fourth Year we’re during the Lockout Shorten Season 

 

 

By April of 2023, I would make a decision on His Future with the team 

Interesting that those fancy stats seem to point to Dahlin being better in his own end than in his opponents. 

[Thorner]

Comparing favourably defensively to Hamilton isn't the worst thing. Especially considering I'm much less worried about Dahlin's offensive prospects. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

He needs stable coaching and a good partner.

[Crusader1969]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

Dahlin may be ahead of those players in offensive statistics, but where is he relative to them in defensive play?  This is where the dissatisfaction lies.

there are articles about Hedman during his 22 and 23 years of age calling him a bust and how they made a big mistake taking him over Evander Kane.

I'll see if I can find them.

[Crusader1969]

52 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Here are some basic fancy stats to tell what type of seasons these three had in their Fourth Seasons in the league. 
Karlsson and Hedman’s Fourth Year we’re during the Lockout Shorten Season 

 

 

By April of 2023, I would make a decision on His Future with the team 

4 year in the league but not 21.  can you confirm the ages of the other 3? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

https://theathletic.com/2985102/2021/11/30/by-the-numbers-ranking-the-nhls-top-25-puck-moving-defensemen/

They have him currently as the 10th best puck moving D in the NHL.  Enough already.  Yes, he has bad games and makes mistakes, but after reading this article I’m more convinced then ever that all he needs to be in the Cale Makar class of player is consistent coaching and a better partner.  His metrics are all better since being paired with Pysyk.  

 

 

[Crusader1969]

24 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

there are articles about Hedman during his 22 and 23 years of age calling him a bust and how they made a big mistake taking him over Evander Kane.

I'll see if I can find them.

Article from 2013   Hedman 4 seasons in the NHL and 23 years old 

"

The Tampa Bay Lightning bought into the hype, and drafted Hedman ahead of players like Matt Duchene and Evander Kane.

Post-Draft Fallout

Hedman has been in the NHL for four seasons now. 2013-14 will be his fifth in the league, and while he's been a minute-muncher in Tampa, he hasn't even come close to providing the kind of offensive spark many hoped he would.

The Hockey News thought that Hedman had some offensive upside. So did ESPN. And while the Lighting have been one of the most explosive offensive teams in the league over the last few seasons, Hedman has yet to cash in.

Through 258 games played, he's notched 89 points. While posting 20 points in a season isn't bad for a defenseman, it's likely that the Lightning would take one of the players they passed on at this point if they had a do-over."

 

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He needs stable coaching and a good partner.

Like any good relationship or buddy-cop flick.

In year 4, Dahlin is 21 while Hedman was 22.

Dahlin doesn't need a change of scenery so much as a filled-out roster that is able to protect him and limit his minutes. He's at almost 24 min/game. That's almost 3 minutes more than anyone else per game. Get him a roster that gets him back down in the 21-23 min/game range, whether we're leading or trailing, and things will smooth out.

Roster-wise: In Hedman's 4th season he had Matt Carle (28), Eric Brewer (33), and Sami Salo (38) as the other top-4. Those are established veterans who were still really solid players. Contrast with Buffalo's top-4: Pysyk (30), Bryson (24), Jokiharju (22) two of whom are still coming into their own (Bryson 59 gp, Joker 159 gp), and while Pysyk is solid, he has been a 5/6 (and forward) throughout his career. Note: Miller (29) is also a career 5/6 D-man and has been the other top-4 with Joker injured.

And up front Hedman had Lecavalier, St. Louis, and baby Stamkos as elite forwards to rely on and handle the puck. Our forwards do not compare favorably to that 2012-13 Tampa roster. Neither team's goaltending was very good, but TB limited shots significantly better and was only -2 goal differential for the season. Yes, even with all that firepower, that was a scuffling TB team.

Edited November 30, 2021 by DarthEbriate

[Crusader1969]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://theathletic.com/2985102/2021/11/30/by-the-numbers-ranking-the-nhls-top-25-puck-moving-defensemen/

They have him currently as the 10th best puck moving D in the NHL.  Enough already.  Yes, he has bad games and makes mistakes, but after reading this article I’m more convinced then ever that all he needs to be in the Cale Makar class of player is consistent coaching and a better partner.  His metrics are all better since being paired with Pysyk.  

 

 

I dont think we should confuse him with a player like Makar either, Makar is an elite skater.  I think that makes the transition for guys like him and Quinn to be a bit easier. 

 Dahlin is a smooth skater and is much bigger, takes a bit more time for dmen like him to find their way.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He needs stable coaching and a good partner.

This is true, and this is the preferred option. I hate to bring up the Bruins again but how they developed McAvoy was the right way. They paired him with their best stay at home veteran, sat him out when he struggled first 2 years and eased him into more and more minutes and now he's the complete package. But, since we didn't do that, the question becomes is it too late?

Normally, at 21, I'd say no, still time to step him back, coach a lot, reduce his responsibilities and re-develop him properly. But, in the case of this team can we do that without further ruining the next wave of young D men coming (like Power). We can't step everybody back and we don't really have a solid partner. Pysyk has been a better option but not really a great option, so IFF we could get a good deal for Dahlin I'd consider moving him and letting someone else go through that while we focus on the next group and do them properly. IF we can't get a good return get a better partner for him. Not sure who but that's what's needed. If not, he will become the sacrificial lamb. It's a shame we rushed him. 

[Huckleberry]

I would rather move out Hagg first.   He has been really bad lately, the first games he looked good, but now he is our worst defender.

Dahlin's mistakes are highlighted every night because we watch them, Hagg is on the ice less but has twice as many EV strength goals against.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Huckleberry

[mjd1001]

4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What he needs is time in Rochester. Same reason we are keeping Peterka and Quinn down on the farm. But with his contract is that even a possibility? Granato should at least sit him down a game or two.

In this case Rochester is 'misused' as an option.  When you want a player to go to Roch, it is usually so they can get more playing time in...so they can be free to make mistakes and learn from them.

Granato already gives him top playing time...and Granato already said 'multiple times' that Dahlin is going to make mistakes here and he has to learn from him.  So, he is getting the 'Rochester' treatment already in the pros.  The only difference is his mistakes are magnified in the eyes of the fans because of the level of the competition, and are more likely to make the Sabres lose a game than they would make Roch lose in if down there.

If Granato is willing to keep giving him max ice time, and is willing to let him make his mistakes, there is not much benefit to sending him to Roch (Even if it WAS possible).