GDT: Seattle at Buffalo-November 29, 2021-7pm-MSG, ESPN+, WGR550

[Randall Flagg]

42 minutes ago, SDS said:

This characterization that Seattle should be awful because they are an expansion team is a horrible take. They took a middle roster player from every team in the NHL.  By definition, they should have talent equivalent to a team ranked in the teens.

An update to your characterization of expansion teams is long overdue.

Idk, this slate of picks does not look like 31 middle roster players. I see ~10 I'd consider as that or better, and more that would have trouble making tonight's Sabres lineup 

[SDS]

8 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Idk, this slate of picks does not look like 31 middle roster players. I see ~10 I'd consider as that or better, and more that would have trouble making tonight's Sabres lineup 

I didn’t make the expansion draft rules. Unless the point is they purposely took players lower on each roster.

[Randall Flagg]

6 minutes ago, SDS said:

I didn’t make the expansion draft rules. Unless the point is they purposely took players lower on each roster.

I get that the rules are more friendly than they were for the Lightning or Capitals in eras past, but if he was assuming that they are bad because they're an expansion team, he seems to be right. Their win percentage is in the low .300s and their roster is bad

The rules allow for a "middle roster player," but hidden in that is a bunch of young talent on ELCs that are important to teams but off limits in expansion protection, which led to a lot of their picks and available player pools being pretty damn bad, hence the barrage of bad hockey players on that list 

[Bangarang]

That sucked. I knew after the first 5 minutes that it was going to be a rough night. 

[GoPuckYourself]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm going to go one step further and say I'd like to see Murray stay up with the big club on that line. Murray is still a work in progress but he adds a dimension this team lacks and that was our best line tonight. Give him more time to adjust and jell, teach him a little more aggressiveness and we might just have an unexpected piece added. 

Once again I am even more convinced that Dahlin is mentally slow. When under pressure he gets confused, hesitates and that's the end of that. Team failed to recognize this flaw and developed him poorly. He needs to make quick instinctive plays and not have to think. Needs a huge step backwards or he will be flawed forever. and Jokiharju isn't much better.

Cane we get a Tanev somewhere? We need that. 

You can't teach aggressiveness, you either have it or you don't just ask Tyler Meyers.

[SDS]

3 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I get that the rules are more friendly than they were for the Lightning or Capitals in eras past, but if he was assuming that they are bad because they're an expansion team, he seems to be right. Their win percentage is in the low .300s and their roster is bad

The rules allow for a "middle roster player," but hidden in that is a bunch of young talent on ELCs that are important to teams but off limits in expansion protection, which led to a lot of their picks and available player pools being pretty damn bad, hence the barrage of bad hockey players on that list 

Fair enough, but regardless if their overall talent level is lower than the median, it’s not “they are an expansion team therefore you should never lose to them“ bad. Their -12 goal differential shows they aren’t getting blown off the ice in their losses. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

 

I don't think he's mentally slow; I'd actually say its the opposite; he's overthinking plays. It started with Krueger who filled his mind with 50 different things. 

See I think we are seeing the same thing, he delays and thinks about what to do. Hesitates. You feel it's overthinking too many things, I feel he's slow to think it through and decide. It may very well be both or a combination of the two, but in either case, he hasn't been taught properly to just act/do. 

[PerreaultForever]

37 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

You can't teach aggressiveness, you either have it or you don't just ask Tyler Meyers.

Maybe, and that is true for Tage as well (but thankfully Granato found another way to use his size and skills) but from what Murray has said he has come to realize his size is his geatest asset and he has tried to change his game. He knows at this point he won't make the NHL playing like his junior days so I think he can be coached and molded. 

He's not going to become some one man wrecking crew or anything, but if he has success using his size he might take to it and start to relish the role. I think there is a place for him on this team. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, KC Scouts said:

Not trying to start an argument here but realistically thats a little more than half full and its not actual attendance

BTW - I'm there almost every game, we haven't come close to half full yet

its amazing how we forget what we used to be because its been so long

It was still the largest-looking crowd of the season.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

 

I don't think he's mentally slow; I'd actually say its the opposite; he's overthinking plays. It started with Krueger who filled his mind with 50 different things. 

I think Dahlin "takes his eyes off the ball" so to speak. He's like the WR who starts thinking about what cut he's going to make before securing the ball. So many errors involve the puck rolling off his blade.

Of course we can point at the horrendous gaffes that lead to goals, but Dahlin is also guilty of misplaying the puck and ending an attack in the offensive zone, or derailing a rush forcing the Sabres to come back and reset. A bad pass, the puck rolling off his stick and going outside the blue line. Those might not end up in breakaways going the other way but they do blow up a Sabres offensive possession. I don't understand why he hasn't been sat down. If it were any other player they'd be in Rochester by now.

[Kristian]

It’s not fair to call someone a bust, when he’s only played for the worst team in the league, but…

Dahlin, at least so far, is a bust.

His possesion game is poor, his defensive play is poor, his offensive game is forgettable.

I think he simply hasn’t been able to adjust to the smaller ice surface. Less space, less time.

[Kristian]

4 hours ago, HumanSlinky39 said:

On the plus side, I think we have two damn good Centers for years to come in Tage and Dylan. Not sure either are a first line C, but both could end up being really good. 

Until they ask for a trade, or get dealt for 2nd rounders at the deadline…

[sabresparaavida]

Brett Murray giving a reason to keep him around, that goal was a very good, simple play, something this team could use more of. He just picked his space, held it, and patiently cashed in a rebound.

[North Buffalo]

3 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

Brett Murray giving a reason to keep him around, that goal was a very good, simple play, something this team could use more of. He just picked his space, held it, and patiently cashed in a rebound.

Thought even after you saw him pick up his confidence play hard on forecheck, carry the puck up the ice and be hard to knock off the puck... he is a big man and seems to know how to use his body well.  Wow along with Mitts coming back, Quinn, Peterka, Krebs and one more young AHL surprise... plus Samuelson and Power next year maybe Sabres should consider just drafting goalies after first 2 rounds

[Hoss]

7 hours ago, SDS said:

Fair enough, but regardless if their overall talent level is lower than the median, it’s not “they are an expansion team therefore you should never lose to them“ bad. Their -12 goal differential shows they aren’t getting blown off the ice in their losses. 

They’re not bad because they’re an expansion team, they’re bad because they’re an expansion team that chose not to pick the best players available to them in favor of long-term flexibility. They SHOULD be better.

4 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

Brett Murray giving a reason to keep him around, that goal was a very good, simple play, something this team could use more of. He just picked his space, held it, and patiently cashed in a rebound.

What has his overall game looked like since the call up? I’ve only been able to watch a few minutes here and there.

[Skibum]

5 hours ago, Kristian said:

It’s not fair to call someone a bust, when he’s only played for the worst team in the league, but…

Dahlin, at least so far, is a bust.

His possesion game is poor, his defensive play is poor, his offensive game is forgettable.

I think he simply hasn’t been able to adjust to the smaller ice surface. Less space, less time.

Yeah, I haven't watched a lot of games this year, but I watched last night and could not believe how bad Dahlin was in just about every phase of the game. About the only thing he has going for him is the little puck drag move he does to evade a checker at the point. But that's it. He's slow to the puck, no hustle, no physicality; then he makes sloppy passes that get picked off, and has zero initiative on offense. He still looks like a boy among men out there, and  at 6'3" and 207 lb. with 3+ years of NHL experience, his age is not a valid excuse. I think he is what he is - JAG, with a few fancy moves that rarely make a difference in a real game. 

[Doohicksie]

5 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

Brett Murray giving a reason to keep him around, that goal was a very good, simple play, something this team could use more of. He just picked his space, held it, and patiently cashed in a rebound.

He had some other good plays in the offensive end too and helped keep offensive possession with smart passing.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

They’re not bad because they’re an expansion team, they’re bad because they’re an expansion team that chose not to pick the best players available to them in favor of long-term flexibility. They SHOULD be better.

What has his overall game looked like since the call up? I’ve only been able to watch a few minutes here and there.

He's only played two games but he is at least as good as the JAGs on the team and is ready for the NHL.  He brings a dimension the team needs with size and physicality.  I think Bjork tries to play a similar game but Murray has 5 inches and 40 pounds over Bjork so he's naturally more effective.

[Stoner]

Much respect to Rick for pointing out other cancer care providers in Buffalo besides Roswell.

[Buffalonill]

Buffalo is 3-12  in the last 15 

[inkman]

Just now, Buffalonill said:

Buffalo is 3-12  in the last 15 

Pain for Shane 

[Doohicksie]

9 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

The rules allow for a "middle roster player," but hidden in that is a bunch of young talent on ELCs that are important to teams but off limits in expansion protection, which led to a lot of their picks and available player pools being pretty damn bad, hence the barrage of bad hockey players on that list 

I think after the VGK early success the teams more consciously paid attention and channeled certain players to the Kraken in the expansion draft (meaning they weren't giving up as much to expansion).

9 hours ago, Bangarang said:

That sucked. I knew after the first 5 minutes that it was going to be a rough night. 

I pretty much realized it on the second SHG.

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I think Dahlin "takes his eyes off the ball" so to speak. He's like the WR who starts thinking about what cut he's going to make before securing the ball. So many errors involve the puck rolling off his blade.

I think when he does that he's playing a more strategic level, "vision" game.  If he properly executed and the puck didn't roll off his blade, the results would probably be notably good.  But too often he either "takes his eye off the ball" as you say, or he's pressured by an opponent and kind of freezes when he can't execute his vision.  He needs to become more reactive and have have Plan B already thought out (or be able to react to Plan B more readily) because until he learns to handle pressure other teams will rush him and watch him fold like a lawn chair.

[Doohicksie]

I wonder if they should move Dahlin to the half wall on the power play so that he's not the last man back?  Put Olofsson on top or something.  I know you want Olofsson cranking his one-timer from the half wall but maybe it would work from the point (or the power play could rotate a little to give him a good angle).

[LGR4GM]

The Venn diagram of ppl who think Dahlin is a bust, or is bad, or should be moved on from, is a circle with the same ppl who were talking about Risto developing still at age 24-26. 

Dahlin played liked crap in chunks last night. He needs to spend an entire year fixing his foot speed so he can recover and he needs to work on his reads being faster. Either he does that and is good or he doesn't and is a mediocre #3/4 defender who gets a bunch of points. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by LGR4GM
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