Sabres getting offensive (and not in the way we’re used to)

[bob_sauve28]

Isn't a big part of this just a bunch of players maturing at the same time? Tage, Ollie, Asplund, R2, Bjork, along with Girgs and Okposo getting healthy, and that has allowed Skinner to start to play well again. Sure system, but two years ago many of those players were not ready 

[mphs mike]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Isn't a big part of this just a bunch of players maturing at the same time? Tage, Ollie, Asplund, R2, Bjork, along with Girgs and Okposo getting healthy, and that has allowed Skinner to start to play well again. Sure system, but two years ago many of those players were not ready 

Yes, which is why, although frustrating, long term it is better to keep the kids lighting up the A in Rochester this season.

[matter2003]

On 11/14/2021 at 1:17 PM, dudacek said:

Last year’s offence with Sam Reinhart, Taylor Hall and Jack Eichel paced for 196 goals over 82 games, good for 28th in the league.

This year’s offence, with Rasmus Asplund, Tage Thompson and the Legion of JAG is currently 14th in the NHL, pacing for 246 goals, easily the most by a Sabre team since the Vanek-led Sabres put up 245 in 2010-11.

How?

They skate very well, are tenacious and play a north-south game.

[inkman]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Isn't a big part of this just a bunch of players maturing at the same time? Tage, Ollie, Asplund, R2, Bjork, along with Girgs and Okposo getting healthy, and that has allowed Skinner to start to play well again. Sure system, but two years ago many of those players were not ready 

I can say with the utmost confidence that Ralph would not have these players playing like this.  He would have continued to stunt their growth and have them playing 1990s style hockey to no avail. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, inkman said:

I can say with the utmost confidence that Ralph would not have these players playing like this.  He would have continued to stunt their growth and have them playing 1990s style hockey to no avail. 

I did a quick check on last season

Asplund 10 pts for the season (10 under DG)

Thompson 14 pts for the season (12 under DG)

Skinner 14 pts for the season (10 under Granato)

 

[PerreaultForever]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:17 AM, dudacek said:

Last year’s offence with Sam Reinhart, Taylor Hall and Jack Eichel paced for 196 goals over 82 games, good for 28th in the league.

This year’s offence, with Rasmus Asplund, Tage Thompson and the Legion of JAG is currently 14th in the NHL, pacing for 246 goals, easily the most by a Sabre team since the Vanek-led Sabres put up 245 in 2010-11.

How?

Stronger positional play, speed, and much better passing. but most importantly, going to the net.   Yes, it's the coaching. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

23 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Stronger positional play, speed, and much better passing. but most importantly, going to the net.   Yes, it's the coaching. 

and opportunity.  RK buried Thompson, Mitts, Asplund and Skinner.  DG gave them opportunity to show they can play and guess what, we found out they can play and well.  

[Zamboni]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

and opportunity.  RK buried Thompson, Mitts, Asplund and Skinner.  DG gave them opportunity to show they can play and guess what, we found out they can play and well.  

Do you think they got better over the past year?

do you think they would have been equally as “effective” one calendar year ago?

And believe me… I am not at all defending what RK did. It’s just an interesting thing to think about. To think if those players would’ve been just as effective a year ago. Or did they develop over the course of the last year and now they are better and they have a coach that allows them to show that they are better than one calendar year ago.

 

[Marvin]

57 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Do you think they got better over the past year?

do you think they would have been equally as “effective” one calendar year ago?

And believe me… I am not at all defending what RK did. It’s just an interesting thing to think about. To think if those players would’ve been just as effective a year ago. Or did they develop over the course of the last year and now they are better and they have a coach that allows them to show that they are better than one calendar year ago.

 

Last year, they might not have been as good as they are now -- but they should not have been as bad as they were playing.  They clearly have developed in the interim.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

And believe me… I am not at all defending what RK did. It’s just an interesting thing to think about. To think if those players would’ve been just as effective a year ago. Or did they develop over the course of the last year and now they are better and they have a coach that allows them to show that they are better than one calendar year ago.

Right, but under Krueger they were flatlined or even regressing.  They only got to where they are right now because Donny Meatballs used his interim period as an extended live action training camp.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

Do you think they got better over the past year?

do you think they would have been equally as “effective” one calendar year ago?

And believe me… I am not at all defending what RK did. It’s just an interesting thing to think about. To think if those players would’ve been just as effective a year ago. Or did they develop over the course of the last year and now they are better and they have a coach that allows them to show that they are better than one calendar year ago.

 

No. More mature maybe and more confident certainly, but not more skilled.  Skinner and KO’s rebound illustrate how vital usage and opportunity is to success.  RK nearly destroyed Skinner.

DG is doing R2 no favors this year by saddling him with AHLers like Caggiula and Hayden.  His production is nearly non existent right now.

[DarthEbriate]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No. More mature maybe and more confident certainly, but not more skilled.  Skinner and KO’s rebound illustrate how vital usage and opportunity is to success.  RK nearly destroyed Skinner.

DG is doing R2 no favors this year by saddling him with AHLers like Caggiula and Hayden.  His production is nearly non existent right now.

The caveat to this is with Olofsson and Mitts out... Hayden and Caggiula and R2 are playing. R2 with Skinner or Bjork or Hinostroza or even winging with Cozens.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Do you think they got better over the past year?

do you think they would have been equally as “effective” one calendar year ago?

And believe me… I am not at all defending what RK did. It’s just an interesting thing to think about. To think if those players would’ve been just as effective a year ago. Or did they develop over the course of the last year and now they are better and they have a coach that allows them to show that they are better than one calendar year ago.

 

Ya imo neither was ready at that time and their time in Rochester did them wonders. The shift to center has also helped a lot for Thompson, it suits his style. 

Now Asplund is another story. I liked him in the preseason ages ago and even suggested Ralph try an all Swedish line when we had Johanson. Maybe he wasn't totally ready back then, but I think the potential was there. 

Skinner is Skinner. I still don't like lots of things he does and doesn't do but as we are stuck with him hopefully Granato turns him back into a 20 goal scorer. 

[Zamboni]

3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Ya imo neither was ready at that time and their time in Rochester did them wonders. The shift to center has also helped a lot for Thompson, it suits his style. 

Now Asplund is another story. I liked him in the preseason ages ago and even suggested Ralph try an all Swedish line when we had Johanson. Maybe he wasn't totally ready back then, but I think the potential was there. 

Skinner is Skinner. I still don't like lots of things he does and doesn't do but as we are stuck with him hopefully Granato turns him back into a 20 goal scorer. 

Whatever 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

Whatever 

Thanks for your insight.

[sabresparaavida]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No. More mature maybe and more confident certainly, but not more skilled.  Skinner and KO’s rebound illustrate how vital usage and opportunity is to success.  RK nearly destroyed Skinner.

DG is doing R2 no favors this year by saddling him with AHLers like Caggiula and Hayden.  His production is nearly non existent right now.

If this team was fully healthy, I don’t think R2, Caggiula or Hayden would even be playing right now. I feel like Oloffson-mitts-tuch would move them out of the top 12

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, sabresparaavida said:

If this team was fully healthy, I don’t think R2, Caggiula or Hayden would even be playing right now. I feel like Oloffson-mitts-tuch would move them out of the top 12

When VO, Mitts and Tuch return, Hayden, Caggiula and Bjork should be the guys replaced.  However, I believe R2 is waivers exempt and can be sent down.

[Taro T]

11 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

When VO, Mitts and Tuch return, Hayden, Caggiula and Bjork should be the guys replaced.  However, I believe R2 is waivers exempt and can be sent down.

... somebody else will be injured.  R2 Rou2 should be saved by that & likely 1 of Caggiula or Bjork.  Hayden to the farm & the other odd man out JAG to the pressbox.

[pi2000]

I think Caggiula has solidfied his spot on the roster.   He plays the game the way they want to play. 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

I think Caggiula has solidfied his spot on the roster.   He plays the game the way they want to play. 

They're still JAGs but the Legion of JAG is better than JAGs of the recent past.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

I think Caggiula has solidfied his spot on the roster.   He plays the game the way they want to play. 

Who is he playing ahead of when Mitts and VO return?  Girgensons, KO, Cozens, Thompson, Asplund, Skinner, and Eakin are guaranteed slots head of him.  I also don’t see him supplanting Hinostroza or R2.  That leaves him fighting for the last spot with Bjork and Hayden.  Once Tuch returns, where does he play?  

[thewookie1]

Hayden drops out 1st, then either R2 (to Rochester) or Bjork likely for the 2nd.

Caggiula would come out for Tuch in January 

 

They will likely shuffle the JAGs a bit once we actually get our full roster back.

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Who is he playing ahead of when Mitts and VO return?  Girgensons, KO, Cozens, Thompson, Asplund, Skinner, and Eakin are guaranteed slots head of him.  I also don’t see him supplanting Hinostroza or R2.  That leaves him fighting for the last spot with Bjork and Hayden.  Once Tuch returns, where does he play?  

How I'd rank 'em, in terms of how useful they are (assumed healthy) at the moment

• VO
• Mitts
• Thompson
• Tuch
• Asplund
• KO
• Girgs
• Skinner
• Cozens
• Caggiula
• R2
• Hinostroza
• Bjork
• Eakin
• Hayden

But really there isn't much separation between VO and Tuch, Asplund and Skinner, or Cozens and Eakin, in terms of tiers

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

How I'd rank 'em, in terms of how useful they are (assumed healthy) at the moment

• VO
• Mitts
• Thompson
• Tuch
• Asplund
• KO
• Girgs
• Skinner
• Cozens
• Caggiula
• R2
• Hinostroza
• Bjork
• Eakin
• Hayden

But really there isn't much separation between VO and Tuch, Asplund and Skinner, or Cozens and Eakin, in terms of tiers

VO and Asplund

[GASabresIUFAN]

FYI Hinostroza, Caggiula and R2’s PT 5 on 5 is about the same.  Vinnie and Caggiula are getting an additional 2 minutes PK time.