Sabres getting offensive (and not in the way we’re used to)

[dudacek]

Last year’s offence with Sam Reinhart, Taylor Hall and Jack Eichel paced for 196 goals over 82 games, good for 28th in the league.

This year’s offence, with Rasmus Asplund, Tage Thompson and the Legion of JAG is currently 14th in the NHL, pacing for 246 goals, easily the most by a Sabre team since the Vanek-led Sabres put up 245 in 2010-11.

How?

[Curt]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Last year’s offence with Sam Reinhart, Taylor Hall and Jack Eichel paced for 196 goals over 82 games, good for 28th in the league.

This year’s offence, with Rasmus Asplund, Tage Thompson and the Legion of JAG is currently 14th in the NHL, pacing for 246 goals, easily the most by a Sabre team since the Vanek-led Sabres put up 245 in 2010-11.

How?

Meatballs.  Lots o’ meatballs.

[Weave]

6 minutes ago, Curt said:

Meatballs.  Lots o’ meatballs.

And dying to be here.

I think its just more evidence that the old core was over it.

[pi2000]

They don't fall down as much.

[Taro T]

39 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Last year’s offence with Sam Reinhart, Taylor Hall and Jack Eichel paced for 196 goals over 82 games, good for 28th in the league.

This year’s offence, with Rasmus Asplund, Tage Thompson and the Legion of JAG is currently 14th in the NHL, pacing for 246 goals, easily the most by a Sabre team since the Vanek-led Sabres put up 245 in 2010-11.

How?

Small sample size, facing a legion of backups, Granato coaching a more uptempo pressing game than his predecessors which actually WANTS guys in front of the opponent's net, finding out that healthy forwards are more effective than injured stars (who knew?), & John Cooper deciding that he didn't need a goalie for the last 6 minutes of the Tampa game. 😉

Certainly there's more to it, but that's a start.

 

[SDS]

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Small sample size, facing a legion of backups, Granato coaching a more uptempo pressing game than his predecessors which actually WANTS guys in front of the opponent's net, finding out that healthy forwards are more effective than injured stars (who knew?), & John Cooper deciding that he didn't need a goalie for the last 6 minutes of the Tampa game. 😉

Certainly there's more to it, but that's a start.

 

We have been facing a legion of backups for years.

[IKnowPhysics]

Krueger's system sapped any goal scoring our talent could muster, which then sapped any point-based stats.  Just getting out of that system should (seriously) gain us 80 goals, even with replacement players.

Sabres GF/GP this year is 3.00.  In 2018-19 it was 2.70.  Under Krueger last year it was 2.07.  80 ***** goals.

[French Collection]

Scoring by committee instead of 10 JAGs deferring to Jack and Sam.

We still have JAGs but even they have chipped in.

[Bangarang]

Meatballs going to have this team playing some exciting hockey once we actually get more talent on the ice. 

[Kristian]

17 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Krueger's system sapped any goal scoring our talent could muster, which then sapped any point-based stats.  Just getting out of that system should (seriously) gain us 80 goals, even with replacement players.

Sabres GF/GP this year is 3.00.  In 2018-19 it was 2.70.  Under Krueger last year it was 2.07.  80 ***** goals.

Just in case I haven’t mentioned it lately - Krueger is the worst coach I ever saw coach a pro team.

Carry on…

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, Kristian said:

Just in case I haven’t mentioned it lately - Krueger is the worst coach I ever saw coach a pro team.

Carry on…

Steve Spurrier

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, Kristian said:

Just in case I haven’t mentioned it lately - Krueger is the worst coach I ever saw coach a pro team.

Carry on…

Recency bias.  He isn't even the worst Sabres head coach of the last decade.  (Which might have something to do w/ wandering the desert for pretty much the last 10 years.)

[Kristian]

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Recency bias.  He isn't even the worst Sabres head coach of the last decade.  (Which might have something to do w/ wandering the desert for pretty much the last 10 years.)

While Ron Rolston and Phil were shite too, at least Housley was a heckuva player.

[jsb]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Last year’s offence with Sam Reinhart, Taylor Hall and Jack Eichel paced for 196 goals over 82 games, good for 28th in the league.

This year’s offence, with Rasmus Asplund, Tage Thompson and the Legion of JAG is currently 14th in the NHL, pacing for 246 goals, easily the most by a Sabre team since the Vanek-led Sabres put up 245 in 2010-11.

How?

Well Jack was hurt/below par for the entire year, Hall was a major disappointment, Cruelger's system was anti-creativity plus we had Risto on the team. It was the perfect storm. The young guys also have a bit of a chip on their shoulders for being completely overlooked under Cruelger and are accepting Granato's challenge to prove everyone wrong. 

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Last year’s offence with Sam Reinhart, Taylor Hall and Jack Eichel paced for 196 goals over 82 games, good for 28th in the league.

This year’s offence, with Rasmus Asplund, Tage Thompson and the Legion of JAG is currently 14th in the NHL, pacing for 246 goals, easily the most by a Sabre team since the Vanek-led Sabres put up 245 in 2010-11.

How?

This team is also grittier than recent teams.  Even though they lost last night, previous teams over the past few years would have folded when they went down 3-1.  This team battled back to 4-4.

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, SDS said:

We have been facing a legion of backups for years.

True, though I believe we've legitimately faced more backups this year than starters so far, which is pretty unusual. 

[dudacek]

I wonder how much of it is mindset?

It’s not like the Sabres are riding a hot stick or two. The balance this year is amazing.

No one has more than 5 goals, but 8 guys - Cozens, Bjork, Asplund, Thompson, Skinner, Olofsson, Okposo, Girgensons - have 3 or more. 4 more (Caggiula, Eakin, Dahlin and R2) have 2. Not many teams end a season with a dozen 10 goal scorers, but that’s what the Sabres have been doing so far.

To me, it’s the biggest change and it will be interesting to see how well it can be sustained.

The Jack teams were all Jack-centric. No one expected the other guys to score and for huge stretches of the year they didn’t.

Donnie expects the other guys to score. Maybe for the first time in a long time they are expecting it of themselves, and that makes a difference?

Edited November 14, 2021 by dudacek

[Thorner]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I wonder how much of it is mindset?

It’s not like the Sabres are riding a hot stick or two. The balance this year is amazing.

No one has more than 5 goals, but 8 guys - Cozens, Bjork, Asplund, Thompson, Skinner, Olofsson, Okposo, Girgensons - have 3 or more. 4 more (Caggiula, Eakin, Dahlin and R2) have 2. Not many teams end a season with a dozen 10 goal scorers, but that’s what the Sabres have been doing so far.

To me, it’s the biggest change and it will be interesting to see how well it can be sustained.

The Jack teams were all Jack-centric. No one expected the other guys to score and for huge stretches of the year they didn’t.

Donnie expects the other guys to score. Maybe for the first time in a long time they are expecting it of themselves, and that makes a difference?

How could the other coaches ever be operating under a philosophy where "no one expected the other guys to score"? I'm not saying it didn't happen, merely asking how it could have possibly gotten to that. Management and coaching couldn't possibly be of the belief a team can succeed in the NHL that way, everyone knows you need depth. Even the worst mangers and coaches would know that. So that means they had it structured that way against their will. So, why? Is it on the GM for not filling in the rest of the roster? Or as we are seeing this year, were the players below Jack and Sam capable of doing more, with a better mindset? Does that then fall to coaching, were they structuring too much around those guys and demanding/consciously exuding that they expected less from the other players? 

It's not something that falls to Jack/Sam etc - their job is to want the puck. We want them to want the puck. There's no way I believe they didn't want a capable team around them - indeed that's why Jack wanted out, didn't feel the team could win yada yada. 

So why was it structured that way, if it was? It's so interesting 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Thorny

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, Thorny said:

True, though I believe we've legitimately faced more backups this year than starters so far, which is pretty unusual. 

Your post brought up the Q of how many starters/#1's they've faced?

Habs - Montembeault (backup) 

Arizona - Vejmelka (became starter, but at the time was the backup & it was his 1st ever NHL game)

Vancouver - Demko (starter)

Boston - Ullmark (backup)

NJ - Daws (1st NHL game / backup)

TB - Elliott (backup)

Ducks - Stolarz (backup)

LA - Quick (platoon)

SJ - Reimer (platoon)

Seattle - Grubauer (starter)

Detroit - Nedeljkovic (starter)

Caps - Vanecek (starter)

Eulers  - Skinner (backup, 1st ever NHL start)

Loafs - Woll (backup, 1st ever NHL start)

So, they're getting just under 1/3 of the other team's starters which isn't that excessive for a non-respected team.  But they've also faced as many guys in their 1st ever game as they have starters.  

[dudacek]

20 minutes ago, Thorny said:

How could the other coaches ever be operating under a philosophy where "no one expected the other guys to score"? I'm not saying it didn't happen, merely asking how it could have possibly gotten to that. Management and coaching couldn't possibly be of the belief a team can succeed in the NHL that way, everyone knows you need depth. Even the worst mangers and coaches would know that. So that means they had it structured that way against their will. So, why? Is it on the GM for not filling in the rest of the roster? Or as we are seeing this year, were the players below Jack and Sam capable of doing more, with a better mindset? Does that then fall to coaching, were they structuring too much around those guys and demanding/consciously exuding that they expected less from the other players? 

It's not something that falls to Jack/Sam etc - their job is to want the puck. We want them to want the puck. There's no way I believe they didn't want a capable team around them - indeed that's why Jack wanted out, didn't feel the team could win yada yada. 

So why was it structured that way, if it was? It's so interesting 

I think my choice of words maybe put more weight on that phrase than intended.

What I meant was I don’t think it’s a stretch to say coaches have looked at top-heavy rosters and said “the rest of you guys just don’t screw it up, play ‘em even and let our skill guys win”

On the contrary, I think it’s common. What’s is usual is Donnie telling his whole roster to go for it.

[Marvin]

56 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think my choice of words maybe put more weight on that phrase than intended.

What I meant was I don’t think it’s a stretch to say coaches have looked at top-heavy rosters and said “the rest of you guys just don’t screw it up, play ‘em even and let our skill guys win”

On the contrary, I think it’s common. What’s is usual is Donnie telling his whole roster to go for it.

This was the downside of ever putting Eichel and Reinhart on the same line.  It looks to the players on the bench like, "we just have to keep it close and the The Chosen Ones will see us through."  This part is on the coaches.

IMHO, the most influential reason that the Sabres have not had depth scoring since the year Zemgus was drafted until this season is that the Sabres have not iced 4 lines of actual NHLers since Zemgus was drafted until this season.  This part is on the GMs.

Cast your mind back to Housley's second season.  How did that team work?  Sobotka's line and/or Mittlestadt's line would get caved in, then the LOG line would get the puck up ice and Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart would come out.  Then the cycle would often repeat.  Little wonder there was almost no depth scoring on those teams.

Go back now to Bylsma's teams.  Defence flip the puck out and the other team would come back into the zone.  Either of the top 2 lines would come out, both would rush the puck and get shots.  Then one of the bottom 2 lines with any of our sub-par defencive pairs would get run over and hemmed in until the next panic clear of the zone.

I won't bother to reiterate Kreuger's buffoonery.

Look at how those teams worked: the top line(s) were expected to score and everyone else just hoped to survive.  They were badly constructed by the GM and then mishandled by the coach.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I don’t see why this is a surprise.  RK’s system sucked the life out of all offensive players. Now we have a coach that allows players to create and a system that emphasizes counter attacks and quick strikes.  

We saw last season when DG took over how quickly we started scoring even without Eichel and Hall.  This season is just an extension of what started last year.  It’s a amazing how Mitts, Thompson, Asplund and Skinner have blossomed without RK.  

[Doohicksie]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

the Legion of JAG

This should be enshrined in the Sabrespace Hall of Fame.

[Zamboni]

I’ve  never been a fan of  “on pace for” discussions. Mainly because the pace never ends up being reality at the end 😂

[SabresVet]

5 hours ago, Taro T said:

Your post brought up the Q of how many starters/#1's they've faced?

So, they're getting just under 1/3 of the other team's starters which isn't that excessive for a non-respected team.  But they've also faced as many guys in their 1st ever game as they have starters.  

Appreciate the context needed to put their first sixth of the season into perspective.  Now, when/if they improve and draw more starting goalies we can review this at the appropriate juncture.