GDT: Toronto Maple Leafs vs. Buffalo Sabres, 11/13/21 —7 pm MSG and WGR

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

This isn't a difficult concept to grasp. When the fans are enthusiastic with the product they are more likely to buy tickets at the designated price and attend the games. I'm not as concerned with the secondary market as you are. It is about having people actually attending the games. When you have a rivalry game at your arena that is (estimated) with two thirds of the seat vacant that is a disturbing situation. The problem isn't the secondary market and how it relates to fairness to the limited number of season ticket holders. The problem relates to apathy to the product you are offering. As it currently stands I find it very troubling.

And you are looking at this completely backwards.  The point @LGR4GM is making is that the STHers have paid the going rate for tickets and at an ADVERTISED "significant savings off box office prices" (the quote is directly from the website).  They can't just cut ticket prices arbitrarily.  They also expect to collect revenue sharing from their league partners.  There are conditions on their collecting that money, one of which is they don't arbitrarily cut prices.

Totally get your point that having 4,000 people in a barn that holds 18,000 is a huge problem.  But due to contracts with others, they can't simply give away seats for $10 and hope to make it up on jacked up beer prices.  As Adams said, they need to rebuild trust w/ the fans. 

They're doing a lot of things right w/ the in game experience.  They have live bands playing in the intermissions.  The music they play during breaks is oftentimes selected by the fans & actually doesn't stink.  They've let the individual players choose their own goal song.  They have people exit the building after a W to Buffalo's own Rick James.  So, they are trying.

They still have to work on their POS systems because they are interminably slow and are completely cashless so you can't even try to speed it up by having cash ready to drop on the counter.

There's nothing they can do about having the border issue be a huge hassle for 1/2 the fanbase (though they likely could add a rapid test station somewhere in or near the building to make it easier to get back into Canada after the game) but if they keep playing well at home attendance will pick up after the Bills season is done - that's how it always worked prior to the long sellout streak.

[bunomatic]

Could the lack of people in the seats be related to the fact that we had to trade with the islanders for a player that doesn’t play anymore to stay above the cap floor ? Its pathetic. Sure the game is exciting for us we’re Sabres fans. Granato has them playing an exciting style and they work hard every night but the owners are skinflints that  aren’t even willing to ice a team at or equal to the salary cap of the teams they are playing. We’re the dollar store equivalent to our opponents on most nights. That and they’ve burned us before and theres an apathy from ten years of running this team and the fans into the ground. Call it karma for historically bad ownership. This has to be part of the conversation when you ask why the empty seats.

[triumph_communes]

6 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

Could the lack of people in the seats be related to the fact that we had to trade with the islanders for a player that doesn’t play anymore to stay above the cap floor ? Its pathetic. Sure the game is exciting for us we’re Sabres fans. Granato has them playing an exciting style and they work hard every night but the owners are skinflints that  aren’t even willing to ice a team at or equal to the salary cap of the teams they are playing. We’re the dollar store equivalent to our opponents on most nights. That and they’ve burned us before and theres an apathy from ten years of running this team and the fans into the ground. Call it karma for historically bad ownership. This has to be part of the conversation when you ask why the empty seats.

No

[dudacek]

14 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I think that's more chemistry between Tage and Jeff.

I think last night was the first they’ve showed legitimate chemistry.

Not shocking, sometimes chemistry takes time.

The winning goal was a play Skinner blows throughout a game on a regular basis. That’s why most coaches don’t have him out there in that situation. Donnie is playing a longer game.

Best back-to-back games Jeff has played in years.

Edited November 14, 2021 by dudacek

[SDS]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I think last night was the first they’ve showed legitimate chemistry.

Not shocking, sometimes chemistry takes time.

The winning goal was a play Skinner blows throughout the game on a regular basis. That’s why most coaches don’t have him out there in that situation. Donnie is playing a longer game.

Best back-to-back games Jeff has played in years.

I really appreciate you giving credit to DG for having a plan and for having reasons for his decisions, instead of posting the usual fan reaction of the coach/GM being an idiot. I think this guy deserves the benefit of the doubt. 

[bunomatic]

13 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

No

O.k. Whatevs.

Let me ask you this. What would it cost to have had a decent goaltender in net last night against the Leafs ? This dollarama team would have beat that team thats stretched up against the cap. Instead we go with a third string goalie. 

[Topshelf13]

"The Sabres undoubtedly play with more fire and energy at home than away, they have to find a way to turn it on when on the road" 

I agree completely, the reaction and speed of play was off on the road. 

 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

O.k. Whatevs.

Let me ask you this. What would it cost to have had a decent goaltender in net last night against the Leafs ? This dollarama team would have beat that team thats stretched up against the cap. Instead we go with a third string goalie. 

Isn't about cap money in is about the acquisition cost. Most teams aren't going to give you their decent backup for pennies

[bunomatic]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Isn't about cap money in is about the acquisition cost. Most teams aren't going to give you their decent backup for pennies

Thats my point. This team is cheap. We lost Ulmark because we are cheap. Ownership and management could care less if we win so people will not pay to see the game. Why bother ?

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, bunomatic said:

Thats my point. This team is cheap. We lost Ulmark because we are cheap. Ownership and management could care less if we win so people will not pay to see the game. Why bother ?

No your point is about money mine is about wasting draft picks or other assets. 

[Radar]

35 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

Could the lack of people in the seats be related to the fact that we had to trade with the islanders for a player that doesn’t play anymore to stay above the cap floor ? Its pathetic. Sure the game is exciting for us we’re Sabres fans. Granato has them playing an exciting style and they work hard every night but the owners are skinflints that  aren’t even willing to ice a team at or equal to the salary cap of the teams they are playing. We’re the dollar store equivalent to our opponents on most nights. That and they’ve burned us before and theres an apathy from ten years of running this team and the fans into the ground. Call it karma for historically bad ownership. This has to be part of the conversation when you ask why the empty seats.

I don't agree that they're skinflints. They just don't hire the right people. Hopefully KA and company will turn out to be a hit. They have shown they're willing to spend and have in the past. 

6 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

Thats my point. This team is cheap. We lost Ulmark because we are cheap. Ownership and management could care less if we win so people will not pay to see the game. Why bother ?

I think Ulmark isn't a Bruin because of cheap ownership. I wouldn't have given him the contract either. Plus I think he was playing us.

[bunomatic]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No your point is about money mine is about wasting draft picks or other assets. 

How is it wasting picks or assets when goaltending is likely the most important gap to fill when building a team? We traded away most of our high end guys and KA refused to bring in a goaltender. He brought a guy out of retirement. 

[triumph_communes]

Ullmark contract was a bad contract. We did the right thing to avoid it. 
 

there is a lack of goalie talent in the league right now. Doesn’t mean you ruin the cap three years from now to get just any stopgap when there’s at least a couple of blue chips in the farm. 

[Archie Lee]

10 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

Thats my point. This team is cheap. We lost Ulmark because we are cheap. Ownership and management could care less if we win so people will not pay to see the game. Why bother ?

I don’t think this is accurate. What Adams is doing is setting a value for a player and then not exceeding it. Paying more than value for a player is how you end up with Skinner and his contract. Adams has decided that he is not going to unnecessarily handcuff himself by giving out contracts now that will hinder his ability to re-sign Dahlin, Power, Cozens, etc. 3-4 years from now. This is also the reason why they did not consider retaining on Eichel. None of this means it is guaranteed to workout, but they have a plan/philosophy that they are currently committed to. 

[Flashsabre]

8 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

How is it wasting picks or assets when goaltending is likely the most important gap to fill when building a team? We traded away most of our high end guys and KA refused to bring in a goaltender. He brought a guy out of retirement. 

So who is the guy they should get? Korpisalo is crapping the bed in Columbus, two years under .900 sv percentage.  Montreal are in dire goaltending need now too. Fleury has been a disaster in   Chicago. 

Who is the guy to go get?

Edited November 14, 2021 by Flashsabre

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Skinner IS playing better, but he's still Skinner.  For all the criticism Miller & the other D took for the late turnover, that puck was right on Skinner's stick.  Any other winger would've won that board battle & gotten the puck out of the zone.

It'll be interesting to see where Skinner ends up when Olofsson comes back.  People seem to be forgetting that Olofsson was the team's leading scorer when "that 70's line" was intact.  Expecting that Olofsson will go back there & if Mittelstadt's wrist ever heals that Skinner will be back w/ him.

It might be how it goes, but I think you keep Skinner with the players he is producing with. We have a good potential line coming off injury over the next 6 weeks (hopefully) in Olofsson, Mitts and Tuch. 

[Digger]

2 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Someone in another thread said that the Tage line's productivity was hurt by having Skinner.  I said that if Tage can unlock Skinner it will be worth it.  Skinner marches to his own drummer, but Tage has been able to mesh with him better than any other center currently playing on the team.

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Skinner IS playing better, but he's still Skinner.  For all the criticism Miller & the other D took for the late turnover, that puck was right on Skinner's stick.  Any other winger would've won that board battle & gotten the puck out of the zone.

It'll be interesting to see where Skinner ends up when Olofsson comes back.  People seem to be forgetting that Olofsson was the team's leading scorer when "that 70's line" was intact.  Expecting that Olofsson will go back there & if Mittelstadt's wrist ever heals that Skinner will be back w/ him.

30 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think last night was the first they’ve showed legitimate chemistry.

Not shocking, sometimes chemistry takes time.

The winning goal was a play Skinner blows throughout a game on a regular basis. That’s why most coaches don’t have him out there in that situation. Donnie is playing a longer game.

Best back-to-back games Jeff has played in years.

Skinner was the hardest player for me to put on a line (on paper) in the off season which is bad considering his long expensive contract.  I did not think that he played well with Mittelstadt last season and wondered if he might match up with Cozens.  He didn't play well with Cozens in my opinion.  He did look better with Mittelstadt in the limited time together early.  But I agree that he might be a long term fit with Tage at center.  Definitely not a lock yet and I agree that Olofsson and Mittelstadt coming back will be interesting to see how the forward lines come back together.  I think the real chemistry with Olofsson though was with Asplund.

Last point, Skinner was playing against Toronto and the border was open.  I wonder if he had some family in the stands last night that helped him have a great game.  Sounds odd maybe but Cozens had something like 9 or 10 members of his family in town and Bryson has his parents in town this weekend.  Regardless, I hope that all 4 keep playing well Skinner, Tage, Cozens, Bryson.

[bunomatic]

13 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

So who is the guy they should get? Korpisalo is crapping the bed in Columbus, two years under .900 sv percentage.  Montreal are in dire goaltending need now too. Fleury has been a disaster in   Chicago. 

Who is the guy to go get?

If I was only the gm. But I’m not. Fortunately for me KA will live or die on that sword. I agree with much if not all that KA is doing but the lack of capable goaltending in my mind is one of his biggest failures. With goaltending we win that game last night. Those 2 points towards a playoff spot contribute more growth for the young guys than the usual soundbite of we’ll learn from our mistakes and move on.

[bunomatic]

21 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I don’t think this is accurate. What Adams is doing is setting a value for a player and then not exceeding it. Paying more than value for a player is how you end up with Skinner and his contract. Adams has decided that he is not going to unnecessarily handcuff himself by giving out contracts now that will hinder his ability to re-sign Dahlin, Power, Cozens, etc. 3-4 years from now. This is also the reason why they did not consider retaining on Eichel. None of this means it is guaranteed to workout, but they have a plan/philosophy that they are currently committed to. 

We’re still paying Cody Hodgson. Matt Moulson. I’m not sure. There could be more. But goaltending is one of if not the most important positions. We go with a guy that was retired and a couple minor league guys as your second and third string. I am bought in on the plan. But I think you make certain exceptions if it moves you in the right direction. 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, jsb said:

My observations and takes after the game:

1. Is Granato not only the young guy whisperer but also the old guy one to, Okposo-Zemgus and Skinner haven't played this well in a Sabres uni for quite awhile, if ever and giving the "A" to Z and Kyle was a stroke of genius
2. If Ryan Johnson works out are we looking at that ROR trade in a totally different light than a year ago?? Lose the short term win the long one
3. Has the light bulb turned on for Cozens in the past 2 games, if so the rebuild is well on it's way
4. The Sabres undoubtedly play with more fire and energy at home than away, they have to find a way to turn it on when on the road
5. Asplund and Bryson are turning into NHL players before our eyes
6. Has the AHL-NCAA cupboard been better stocked since the early 2000's??
7. Has UPL turned it around or is it another short term mirage?? 
8. Who would have ever thought it possible that Thompson at C would revitalize Skinner before the season started
9. Is our future C spine not quite as skeletal as first thought??

1.  I don’t know about stroke of genius.  It seemed obvious to alot of us as long as you didn’t over think it.

2. Still wish we had ROR, but a successful Johnson reduces the sting.

3. We can only hope.  He’s pretty central to near term success 

4. I think the home vs away record is the result of having last change.  He can better hide our warts at home.

5. Some of that is they are being featured above where they should be slotted. I think they’ll both develop into good bottom half of the lineup on good teams players

6. Hopefully its not shades of Bowman era Sabres, but I agree.

7. I’m leary of UPL at this point 

8. who would have thought Thompson would revitalize at center.  That bingo spot went unclaimed.

9.  Promising 

 

[French Collection]

37 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

So who is the guy they should get? Korpisalo is crapping the bed in Columbus, two years under .900 sv percentage.  Montreal are in dire goaltending need now too. Fleury has been a disaster in   Chicago. 

Who is the guy to go get?

I think you can get a goalie out of Dallas as a stop gap measure.

Holtby and Khudobin are currently the pair. Ben Bishop is on IR but when he returns they have 3 NHLers. Sabres have cap space to make anything happen and it could be a free transaction to take a salary from them.

Oettinger is in the AHL but I think he is ready for NHL action. He would be my choice of the four but he is just ahead of UPL on the development curve.

None of these guys is a saviour but they are better than Dell.

[Curt]

22 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

We’re still paying Cody Hodgson. Matt Moulson. I’m not sure. There could be more. But goaltending is one of if not the most important positions. We go with a guy that was retired and a couple minor league guys as your second and third string. I am bought in on the plan. But I think you make certain exceptions if it moves you in the right direction. 

The Sabres are not paying Matt Moulson.

Craig Anderson was not retired.

[bunomatic]

8 minutes ago, Curt said:

The Sabres are not paying Matt Moulson.

Craig Anderson was not retired.

Woo. Thank god for that. The fact remains we have ***** goaltending . To be fair Anderson has been pretty good as our #1 when he’s been available. Toker has been ok in a backup roll. But KA could have done better to shore up the net. Like the rest of Buffalo Sabres hockey our goaltending has been average at best. Maybe thats the most we should expect as Sabres fans.

[Gatorman0519]

Put up a 100 point season with some talented and fun forwards to watch and the arena will fill up again. 

[Taro T]

35 minutes ago, French Collection said:

I think you can get a goalie out of Dallas as a stop gap measure.

Holtby and Khudobin are currently the pair. Ben Bishop is on IR but when he returns they have 3 NHLers. Sabres have cap space to make anything happen and it could be a free transaction to take a salary from them.

Oettinger is in the AHL but I think he is ready for NHL action. He would be my choice of the four but he is just ahead of UPL on the development curve.

None of these guys is a saviour but they are better than Dell.

Interesting thought.  A 6th or 7th round pick could land a guy if Dallas ends up deciding to waive one.

 

14 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

Woo. Thank god for that. The fact remains we have ***** goaltending . To be fair Anderson has been pretty good as our #1 when he’s been available. Toker has been ok in a backup roll. But KA could have done better to shore up the net. Like the rest of Buffalo Sabres hockey our goaltending has been average at best. Maybe thats the most we should expect as Sabres fans.

Anderson has been good.  That he'd be good wasn't really in doubt.  What was in doubt was could he maintain a high level of play over a full year (yet to be determined, but unlikely) and whether he could stay healthy (obviously that answer is 'no').

Tokarski has been far better than OK both last year and this.  As improbable as it was.

But they really do need another guy capable of giving them quality NHL minutes.  Dell is not that guy.