What we’ve learned from the Jack Eichel conclusion

[K-9]

11 minutes ago, rickshaw said:

As I have said in the past I have spoken to a former Sabre directly who implied that Reino, Sam and Jack weren’t great dudes. Jack however, liked this ex Sabre a lot, so the comment on Jack was “he just wants to win” 

He said nothing other than that and nothing about other two players. My comment to him was that they were all cancers. His silence spoke volumes.

Recently I was in touch with him again and he said he’s happy where he is now, but also happy that the “new core” is steering the team in the right direction, and he was happy they seem to be on the rise (albeit slowly-my opinion) 

So the Gionta comments seem to carry a lot of weight. Aside from this, all three needed to go and I for one am happy they are. 
 

When this team becomes a playoff team, Alex Tuch will be in his glory because he is built for playoff hockey. Yes it’s aways away, but it’s coming and Adams needs to make good decisions going ahead. Dahlin? I’m very concerned about him. 

Per the bold, absofrickenlutely! None of the three ever became part of the solution on the ice and sometimes it’s just not enough NOT to be part of the problem on the ice. Their character and personalities aside, the rebuild after the tank was a complete and utter failure and great players or not, all three were part of that ignominious legacy and had to go. It was simply time. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

23 minutes ago, rickshaw said:

As I have said in the past I have spoken to a former Sabre directly who implied that Reino, Sam and Jack weren’t great dudes. Jack however, liked this ex Sabre a lot, so the comment on Jack was “he just wants to win” 

He said nothing other than that and nothing about other two players. My comment to him was that they were all cancers. His silence spoke volumes.

Recently I was in touch with him again and he said he’s happy where he is now, but also happy that the “new core” is steering the team in the right direction, and he was happy they seem to be on the rise (albeit slowly-my opinion) 

So the Gionta comments seem to carry a lot of weight. Aside from this, all three needed to go and I for one am happy they are. 
 

When this team becomes a playoff team, Alex Tuch will be in his glory because he is built for playoff hockey. Yes it’s aways away, but it’s coming and Adams needs to make good decisions going ahead. Dahlin? I’m very concerned about him. 

Thanks.

What concerns you about Dahlin?

He is developing slowly on a terrible team that is asking him to do things that he is not ready to do for 3+ seasons now.  He is only 21.

[SabresVet]

4 hours ago, Gabrielor said:

1. Don't label anyone a savior.

2.Don't give 80 million dollar contracts well-before they're earned.

3.I know it's a marketing thing, but don't force the captaincy on your best player, just because they're your best player.

In other words, as GM, tell Terry you agree and then get as close as possible to doing the opposite without losing your job. 

If the Sabres ever become successful again, it'll be in spite of bad ownership.  Not because of it. 

[rickshaw]

Dahlin’s terrible defense concerns me. I’m ok with slow progress but he seems to be regressing

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

You should see him get after a peameal bacon sando?  

WTF is that?

[pi2000]

6 hours ago, Sabel79 said:

From what I've read the medical question is what the artificial disk is going to do under the extreme circumstances playing in the NHL will present.  My wholly unqualified interpretation: it's a lot of pressure placed on a small area in a specific and definitely non-trivial spot in the body when, for instance, you take a hit in open ice... sudden deceleration and what happens internally is going to require a whole lot of not failing out of that disc.   Nobody's done the surgery yet and then played at that level, so, yeah, non-zero risk involved.  As there is with any surgery, especially when dealing with the spine, but there's precedent elsewhere.  

 

As far as the spite... once Jack requested (again) a trade and the decision was made to move on, why in the world do the Sabres carry that risk?  He's already worked very hard (due to poor advice from representation IMO... which I think Jack realized and fired Fish and hired Brisson to get things over the line) to tank his value on the market, that value becomes zero if things go sideways after he gets a surgery nobody's come back from (because no NHL player has had one, admittedly).  

So, only slightly petty.  

 

Is fusion less likely to fail in the event of a heavy collision?  Or is it simply because of lack of evidence?

[Doohicksie]

19 hours ago, klos1963 said:

I heard Eichel talk about asking to be moved, but earlier in this saga, didn't KA say that Eichel had not, at that point, asked for a trade?  Not asking to be argumentative, just seeing if my memory is correct.

KA probably did say that.  I believe there was a period of time (beginning of last year) when they were trying to convince Jack to say by hiring Hall and stuff.  I think he wanted to trade Eichel at that point* (only want people who want to be here, etc.), but gave it one last ditch effort to get playoff good before moving him.  If there was a reasonable chance he was going to stay, there's no way you're going to say he asked for a trade.

*The reason I think he'd already decided to trade Eichel, even if the Pegulas hadn't accepted it, is that he signed Reino to a one-year deal.  He did that because he knew he was cleaning out the guys who wanted out.

[Doohicksie]

18 hours ago, Thorny said:

do we really think the whole reset was Terry's idea?

I think the whole reset was Kevyn's idea and it took him a while (until Krueger was fired) before Terry bought in.

18 hours ago, Taro T said:

something ain't right in the state of Denmark.

But is it actually rotten?

[K-9]

58 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

 

Is fusion less likely to fail in the event of a heavy collision?  Or is it simply because of lack of evidence?

Good question. I had an orthopedic specialist (knee) say that given the nature of the sport, some doctors feel better about the stability that fusion provides, but there is just no precedent. 

[Doohicksie]

17 hours ago, Thorny said:

Yup. Adams' idea to rebuild, but if Jack was on board with a rebuild, he'd be here. 

I think that also throws a bit of water on the rumors that KA wanted Jack gone for character reasons. That Jack was some sort of bad leader. No, it was about choices. 

Well he wasn't a great captain.

[Zamboni]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Well he wasn't a great captain.

I would say he wasn’t even a good captain.

I give Eichel’s captaincy a D

[I-90 W]

2 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

I would say he wasn’t even a good captain.

I give Eichel’s captaincy a D

D is passing, I would go even further and say that he failed as captain. 

[Doohicksie]

15 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s funny the more I think about this the more I realize we have just turned the clock back to 2015.  Tanking team just got a top 2 pick (Reinhart). 3 first rd picks heading into the 2015 draft.  A top skill center we desperately need at the top of the draft.  A pipeline full of young NHL caliber D or D prospects close to NHL ready (McNabb, Pysyk, McCabe, Risto and Zadorov) but no goaltending. We also have a GM who loves to draft wingers especially in the second and third rounds.  The GM also acquired a currently injured power forward (Kane) and dumped a former top prospect D (Myers).

Flash forward to now.  Just got Power 1st overall.  We have 3 1st rd picks in next year’s draft.  We have a pipeline full of young D including Bryson, Joki, Dahlin, Power, Johnson, Samuelsson, Laaksonen and Fitzgerald but again no goaltending near NHL ready.  We are also desperate for centers but draft a ton of wingers.  At least this GM acquired a center in trade. This draft also has a top center at the top and other capable centers on the board.  GM acquired a currently injured power forward (Tuch) but at least this one wants to be here and wasn’t thrown out of his old team’s lockeroom.  The GM also dumped the former top prospect D in Risto.

Honestly the similarities are a little creepy.  

Actually I think it's an interesting comparison.  We were at a crossroads and XGMTM ***** up.  I gather that Adams is deliberately taking another path to build the team despite similarities in the demolition phase.  We may find out how truly awful XGMTM was, if given the similarities at this point in time, Adams manages to pull the team back up to responsibility.  And while you're at it.... do you see any similarity between Zemgus back then and Cozens now?

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Well he wasn't a great captain.

[Doohicksie]

14 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

we give regular shifts to Butcher, Hayden, Bjork, and Caggiula.

You forgot Hinostroza.  Bjork and Cagiulla are actually not bad (for JAGs).  I think they actually play the way Granato wants the team to play.  Hinostroza has the speed but doesn't make enough smart plays.  Hayden is not really an NHLer, and Butcher is in over his head.

[Doohicksie]

11 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I want to know why Dr. Cappuccino wouldn't approve ADR for Jack.   

Is there an actual medical reason?   Or did Terry give him orders to not approve his preferred surgery out of spite?

I still think Eichel is going to experience the same kind of drop off that Connolly saw from the concussions.  Basing it on gut feel, but I think when the Golden Knights see Jack play they will wonder why they gave up so much to get him.

[K-9]

Eichel is just not captain material, but I don’t blame him for that. It’s just not in his personality. I think that’s on the team (coaches and players) who anointed him such. There were better options, imo. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Actually I think it's an interesting comparison.  We were at a crossroads and XGMTM ***** up.  I gather that Adams is deliberately taking another path to build the team despite similarities in the demolition phase.  We may find out how truly awful XGMTM was, if given the similarities at this point in time, Adams manages to pull the team back up to responsibility.  And while you're at it.... do you see any similarity between Zemgus back then and Cozens now?

No.  We actually sent Z to the minors.  Cozens is significantly more talented and has a better pedigree. 

[Doohicksie]

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

Adams was far more in the Gionta camp than you are acknowledging. 

Considering Adams ran the Academy of Hockey for a while and Gionta went there after retiring from playing, this is actually a good point.  I think between Gionta and later Granato, Adams had a pretty good bead on what was going on in the dressing room with respect to player dynamics.

[inkman]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

WTF is that?

A Canadian delicacy 

 

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

To your opening, the best (only?) evidence out there to support Adams wanting to trade Jack and Sam was the fact that he was shopping them. Pretty compelling and I certainly bought in.

But we don't really know that.  To me the more compelling evidence is the one year deal he gave Reino.  He wanted flexibility and was confident Reinhart wouldn't be around after that year.

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, Thorny said:

We take Jack at his word here or we don’t. This, “well he’s telling the truth here but clearly lying or misleading here” is wonky

Not really.  It's been a very complex situation, and just as we all build our narratives of what happened, Jack built a narrative from his viewpoint.  He doesn't know what Adams' plan really was, whether the Pegulas were in favor or it or not.  He not unreasonably drew conclusions but some aspects may have been spot on and some might have been wrong. 

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, Thorny said:

Adams bridged Reinhart his first offseason, and Reinhart said he was open to a long term deal prior to this summer 

Yep.  The first clear sign of the housecleaning to come.  It was puzzling to me at the time, puzzling that he had to trade Reino at the deadline, but in hindsight it seems clear that Adams meant what he said when he wanted players who wanted to be here.  Reino was on the fence but that's not what Adams wanted.  He also presumably had some insight with respect to how Reino contributed to the dressing room dynamic.

7 hours ago, I-90 W said:

I definitely agree that KA most likely didn’t retain any salary because TP said absolutely not (hard feelings). Just conjecture, but I could see that happening. 

I think the bigger factor is that KA himself didn't want to retain.

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Yep.  The first clear sign of the housecleaning to come.  It was puzzling to me at the time, puzzling that he had to trade Reino at the deadline, but in hindsight it seems clear that Adams meant what he said when he wanted players who wanted to be here.  Reino was on the fence but that's not what Adams wanted.  He also presumably had some insight with respect to how Reino contributed to the dressing room dynamic.

Perhaps Kevyn hoped he could get Reinhart to stick around regardless of Jack and the past. If he were on the fence, Adams may have hoped to get him to shake off onto our side.

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, Taro T said:

Eichel wanted to stay if it would be in a winning environment & Adams acknowledged the obvious talent these guys possessed and that under the right conditions it might work.

Sure, but in the end, for anyone looking for root cause, it was Eichel's inability to play at a high level, then to not be able to play at all, that sabotaged the "tuning" build that KA did his first year.