What we’ve learned from the Jack Eichel conclusion

[SDS]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Literally no one cared when I posted glowing comments from Gionta on Jack and his leadership ability a few weeks back, when it was being claimed Gionta’s “silence” on Jack had been damning - so admittedly I don’t feel much of a pull to reciprocate 

You come from a position that assumes we all read in detail everything you write, all 24k messages, digest it in context, and remember it exactly how it happened.

FYI, I have the memory of a ham sandwich. If you ever get frustrated with me - remember that in all likelihood - I just don't remember (if I read it at all).

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, SDS said:

You come from a position that assumes we all read in detail everything you write, all 24k messages, digest it in context, and remember it exactly how it happened.

FYI, I have the memory of a ham sandwich. If you ever get frustrated with me - remember that in all likelihood - I just don't remember (if I read it at all).

I have a photographic memory. My short term memory in recent years has, admittedly taken a self imposed... “hit”, seems appropriate, here. If you catch my drift

[Ogelthorpe]

11 minutes ago, inkman said:

 

@DarthEbriate

You got that right. Lol. Just so disappointing.  Loved the pick when it happened. However looking back on Murray's reaction to the lottery he must have heard some whispers about Jack's character. Then bringing in 2 of the leagues biggest partiers did not help. 

[Thorner]

Just now, Ogelthorpe said:

You got that right. Lol. Just so disappointing.  Loved the pick when it happened. However looking back on Murray's reaction to the lottery he must have heard some whispers about Jack's character. Then bringing in 2 of the leagues biggest partiers did not help. 

I’d say the clear talent gap between McDavid and Eichel addresses the disappointment just fine 

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I have a photographic memory. My short term memory in recent years has, admittedly taken a self imposed... “hit”, seems appropriate, here. If you catch my drift

I have an etch-a-sketch sitting on a running washing machine.

[Thorner]

If the Sabres were somehow aware of character concerns regarding Jack, that didn’t seem to be being talked about, at all, otherwise at the time, to the point where they affected their view of him as a player, the idea to “tank” for a guaranteed shot at one of McDavid/Eichel was even stupider than I thought 

Just now, SDS said:

I have an etch-a-sketch sitting on a running washing machine.

Liger has a Hulk. 

[Doohicksie]

16 hours ago, dudacek said:

I also believe that Adams inability to consider salary retention in an Eichel deal was a mandate directly from ownership. It has been reported by several insiders that this situation got nasty. Yet neither Eichel, nor Adams seemed to have anything other than positive words for the other. The “nasty,” I think came between an owner who felt betrayed by his former golden child and the golden child who was not used to be told “no.” I think Terry was determined that once Jack was gone, he was not going to see another dime.

I'm not sure the retention or lack thereof was what made it nasty.  I think it came from Jack in his rejection of the team and by extension the Pegulas.  Maybe Terry didn't want to retain out of spite, but I think Adams supported that call because it was good sense in terms of how he is building the team, especially considering the term on Jack's contract.

Maybe Terry mandated it, but I think Kevyn agreed with it.  If an offer popped up that required a nominal amount of salary retention to make the numbers work (which considering Jack is injured is a non-starter because he just rolls over to LTIR after the trade anyway), I think Kevyn would have considered retention.  But he wasn't going to keep any level of dead cap space to "buy up" on the deal, because whatever he was buying for the retained cap would not have been equivalent to the retained value.  (Would he pay $2 million x 5 years = $10 million for a first round pick in 2023?  I doubt it.  Any less retention is probably not an issue for the other team, and any more is increasingly bad dead cap.)

But in general I agree with your post.

[Norcal]

Missing out on McDavid after tanking so hard set this franchise back several years.

They are only now starting to build back the right way. 

 

[Doohicksie]

16 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

After Krueger failed, Adams very clearly took control and at that point must have told Terry the plan. No chance in hell this is Terry's plan, he's not that clever.

I agree with the first sentence.  (I actually think the effort to keep Jack was not his idea but he wasn't ready to put his foot down just yet, but was moving to get that control from Day One.)  You're right on the second part as well.

Hearing that Jack wanted out with the GM change, I think KA advised TP to go for it but Pegula wasn't ready to part with his franchise player yet and wanted Adams to build a team that could win now in an effort to keep Jack.  As part of that I think he consulted with Krueger on the players that should be brought in and did the best he could.  Hall should have been good with Jack but Jack was injured the whole year (at least that seemed the case... or he was dogging it to try to force a trade) and then the herniation shut him down.  Eakin turned out to be a total mismatch for Krueger's "system" (I just have to put that in quotes) and the rest were JAGs that, again, were not suited for Krueger's style.

When it was finally time to fire Krueger I think Terry and Kim handed the reins over to Kevyn and bought in to his plan (which I honestly think was presented prior to the season).  Kevyn got less than his desired haul for Jack, but the Pegulas had no one to blame but themselves for that.  The presumed fact that Kevyn predicted the failure of the attempt to make Jack happy helped them to buy into Kevyn's plan.

I think Kevyn's relationship with them is different from the other GMs.  I think there's more give and take between them and they reach consensus decisions instead of either caving to the ownership, or ignoring the ownership.  And Kevyn manages to turn their edicts into good hockey sense.  I think he gives them more credit than they necessarily deserve but if it makes them happy, keeps him in place and allows him to build the team as he more or less would like.  Less command and rebellion, more consensus and cooperation.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

19 minutes ago, Norcal said:

Missing out on McDavid after tanking so hard set this franchise back several years.

They are only now starting to build back the right way. 

 

And Edmonton is on the cusp, eh?

Hey, oh ... @PASabreFan

[Georgia Blizzard]

Reading through the posts, my conclusions:

 

1- Eichel is a very good player (maybe he'll be great someday), but NOT a leader and shouldn't have been captain.  He might thrive in a non-primary leadership role.

2- If Eichel wanted to be a Sabre, he'd be a Sabre.  He drove the process from the beginning and the Sabres tried to dissuade him to no avail.  The surgery discussion was simply a sideshow to the main event.  He wanted out.

3- While GMTM was dreadful as GM and cast a dismal future for the franchise, Eichel bears significant responsibility for the lack of on-ice success for this team, yet, acts like he is purely a victim.

4- The Pegulas are BAD owners, and, frankly not very bright people, fans deserve better.  The evidence is over whelming with the Bills and Sabres.  We can take the Bills discussion to TBD, but, they basically got lucky with McD and BB, let's hope they got lucky with GMKA and HCDG.

 

 

[K-9]

29 minutes ago, Norcal said:

Missing out on McDavid after tanking so hard set this franchise back several years.

They are only now starting to build back the right way. 

 

I submit that what TM did before and after the 2015 draft did more to set us back than not getting the best player since Crosby. 

[Norcal]

8 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I submit that what TM did before and after the 2015 draft did more to set us back than not getting the best player since Crosby. 

They're all connected IMO.

Maybe McDavid would have fit better with the pieces TM brought in. Unfortunately, we'll never know. 

And MCJesus hasn't pushed the needle at all in Edmonton so far either so there's that. 

 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Norcal said:

They're all connected IMO.

Maybe McDavid would have fit better with the pieces TM brought in. Unfortunately, we'll never know. 

And MCJesus hasn't pushed the needle at all in Edmonton so far either so there's that. 

 

Per the bold, with Gionta and Gorges, definitely. With Kane and Bogo? I doubt it. They were poison to the young guys. 

[Norcal]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Per the bold, with Gionta and Gorges, definitely. With Kane and Bogo? I doubt it. They were poison to the young guys. 

Does McDavid party? 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Norcal said:

Does McDavid party? 

I honestly couldn’t even venture a guess. What’s the scuttlebutt in Edmonton? Because there’s been a ton of scuttlebutt here since Eichel’s second season with the team. Have any of McDavid’s former teammates or team insiders called him out on a podcast? 

[Norcal]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I honestly couldn’t even venture a guess. What’s the scuttlebutt in Edmonton? Because there’s been a ton of scuttlebutt here since Eichel’s second season with the team. Have any of McDavid’s former teammates or team insiders called him out on a podcast? 

Yeah I donno. I was asking. 

[SDS]

20 minutes ago, Norcal said:

They're all connected IMO.

Maybe McDavid would have fit better with the pieces TM brought in. Unfortunately, we'll never know. 

And MCJesus hasn't pushed the needle at all in Edmonton so far either so there's that. 

 

Currently they’re 9–1 and have the most dominant top line in hockey.

[Norcal]

20 minutes ago, SDS said:

Currently they’re 9–1 and have the most dominant top line in hockey.

Right. Alot of skill and fun to watch. Just very little playoff success to date. 

[spndnchz]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

I have an etch-a-sketch sitting on a running washing machine.

I have an extra washing machine. Just to sit on and read books.

[Weave]

Well there goes my afternoon….

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Norcal said:

Does McDavid party? 

You should see him get after a peameal bacon sando?  

[Sabres Fan in NS]

34 minutes ago, spndnchz said:

I have an extra washing machine. Just to sit on and read books.

Is it running at the time ??

😎

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

Is it running at the time ??

😎

Heavy duty setting, extra spin cycle. 

[rickshaw]

As I have said in the past I have spoken to a former Sabre directly who implied that Reino, Sam and Jack weren’t great dudes. Jack however, liked this ex Sabre a lot, so the comment on Jack was “he just wants to win” 

He said nothing other than that and nothing about other two players. My comment to him was that they were all cancers. His silence spoke volumes.

Recently I was in touch with him again and he said he’s happy where he is now, but also happy that the “new core” is steering the team in the right direction, and he was happy they seem to be on the rise (albeit slowly-my opinion) 

So the Gionta comments seem to carry a lot of weight. Aside from this, all three needed to go and I for one am happy they are. 
 

When this team becomes a playoff team, Alex Tuch will be in his glory because he is built for playoff hockey. Yes it’s aways away, but it’s coming and Adams needs to make good decisions going ahead. Dahlin? I’m very concerned about him.