Potential Sabres deadline moves(sellers)…

[Eleven]

41 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

In the past. I'm not convinced that is the same idea going forward. They certainly didn't spend this year . 

*Kevyn* didn't spend this year.  There is no indication that this came from ownership, and there is *every* indication, including from Adams himself, that it is Adams's plan to keep money available.

[thewookie1]

53 minutes ago, Eleven said:

*Kevyn* didn't spend this year.  There is no indication that this came from ownership, and there is *every* indication, including from Adams himself, that it is Adams's plan to keep money available.

It could legitimately be that Adams wanted to have his analytics staff together before actively taking on payroll. Why acquire the wrong players when you could can just take on band-aids for a year while you assemble your analytics team.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

*Kevyn* didn't spend this year.  There is no indication that this came from ownership, and there is *every* indication, including from Adams himself, that it is Adams's plan to keep money available.

To the first, do you honestly think Terry doesn't have full control over Adams? 

and to the second, that is what they would say, but wait to see if they spend any of it. 

So back to what I originally said, IF Adams uses that cap space temporarily to get assets by taking on salary then all rebuild plans on. If he doesn't, they aren't doing everything they can. 

[Eleven]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

To the first, do you honestly think Terry doesn't have full control over Adams? 

and to the second, that is what they would say, but wait to see if they spend any of it. 

So back to what I originally said, IF Adams uses that cap space temporarily to get assets by taking on salary then all rebuild plans on. If he doesn't, they aren't doing everything they can. 

The Pegulas do have full control over the GM and everyone else.  They own the team.  Whether they *exercise* full control is a different question, and I say no.

[Doohicksie]

I think in terms of organization hierarchy, yes the Pegulas are in control.  But I also get the sense that GMKA has their trust and that he briefs them about what he is doing, but more to get their concurrence than to get their input.  I don't think they had the same level of trust in any past GM.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I think in terms of organization hierarchy, yes the Pegulas are in control.  But I also get the sense that GMKA has their trust and that he briefs them about what he is doing, but more to get their concurrence than to get their input.  I don't think they had the same level of trust in any past GM.

He has their trust or he got the job because he does what they say? Remember they chose the inexperienced guy already known to them rather than hire an experienced hockey guy from outside. Can only see 2 reasons for doing something like that. 1. He's a cheaper option 2. He's controllable and grateful for the opportunity so will do what they want. 

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

He has their trust or he got the job because he does what they say? Remember they chose the inexperienced guy already known to them rather than hire an experienced hockey guy from outside. Can only see 2 reasons for doing something like that. 1. He's a cheaper option 2. He's controllable and grateful for the opportunity so will do what they want. 

That's because you lack imagination. 

3. They trust him based on past experiences and think he'll do a good job without interference 

4. He laid out a plan that the Pegulas believe in but is based on Adams extensive knowledge of the league

I wrote 2 and could do it because I didn't approach this in the most unimaginative way of "adams is a stupid yes man only"

Edited January 18, 2022 by LGR4GM

[PerreaultForever]

53 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

That's because you lack imagination. 

3. They trust him based on past experiences and think he'll do a good job without interference 

4. He laid out a plan that the Pegulas believe in but is based on Adams extensive knowledge of the league

I wrote 2 and could do it because I didn't approach this in the most unimaginative way of "adams is a stupid yes man only"

I don't lack imagination, I've just given up on blind faith, hoping and wish fulfillment when it comes to the Sabres. Fool me once and all that.

There is no known factual basis for 3. You're just wishing that to be true. 

As for 4. what "extensive knowledge of the league" compared to say Rutherford or Dudley or whoever else you want to list? Even JBott had more experience. Adams wasn't even an assistant GM. 

I have no idea if Adams is a "stupid yes man only" or not (your words not mine) but so far I see nothing that impresses me. Staal was useless. Eakin is a has been. Hayden is meh. Botched the goalie situation. etc. Only the Risto trade was a clear win. We are worse right now than we were. Everything is just next year...........

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Can only see 2 reasons for doing something like that. 1. He's a cheaper option 2. He's controllable and grateful for the opportunity so will do what they want. 

I see it the other way around.  He got there through familiarity and he's exploiting that familiarity to actually do what *he* wants to do rather than kow-towing to the the Pegulas.

[Doohicksie]

27 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

There is no known factual basis for 3. You're just wishing that to be true. 

Oh, there's evidence.  The rumors of wanting to move Eichel (pre-neck injury) when the Pegulas still viewed him as their crown jewel, the waiting on pulling the trigger on the trade until getting somewhat fair return.  Compare that the bum rush when ROR was moved.

[Buffalonill]

Hopefully  they trade Victor Olofsson he's basically Kotalík just trade him now when his stock is high 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't lack imagination, I've just given up on blind faith, hoping and wish fulfillment when it comes to the Sabres. Fool me once and all that.

There is no known factual basis for 3. You're just wishing that to be true. 

As for 4. what "extensive knowledge of the league" compared to say Rutherford or Dudley or whoever else you want to list? Even JBott had more experience. Adams wasn't even an assistant GM. 

I have no idea if Adams is a "stupid yes man only" or not (your words not mine) but so far I see nothing that impresses me. Staal was useless. Eakin is a has been. Hayden is meh. Botched the goalie situation. etc. Only the Risto trade was a clear win. We are worse right now than we were. Everything is just next year...........

Karmanos

Ventura

Galimini 

Reinhart trade getting Levi

Risto trade

Eichel trade (I don't think we'll win this but it could have been worse)

Sending Power back

Drafting Quinn

Idk, I think Adams has failed at times and you highlight those but he's doing some good. I just don't see him as a yes man, it's not his style. 

[tom webster]

Anyone else surprised the initial ask for Colin Miller is a 1st?

[dudacek]

11 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Anyone else surprised the initial ask for Colin Miller is a 1st?

Well, apparently Adams does have problem with asking too much.

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

He has their trust or he got the job because he does what they say? Remember they chose the inexperienced guy already known to them rather than hire an experienced hockey guy from outside. Can only see 2 reasons for doing something like that. 1. He's a cheaper option 2. He's controllable and grateful for the opportunity so will do what they want. 

Or because the two previous highly-recommended hires kinda sucked and let them down, leading them to be skeptical of the NHL heirarchy?

And because they had lengthy first-hand experience with Adams succeeding in every task they had previously handed him?

Also, what CEO/owner doesn't want staff to do what they want? I've worked for bosses who gave me a lot of latitude in achieving their goals my way, but I've never worked for one who let me do what I want.

Edited January 18, 2022 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Oh, there's evidence.  The rumors of wanting to move Eichel (pre-neck injury) when the Pegulas still viewed him as their crown jewel, the waiting on pulling the trigger on the trade until getting somewhat fair return.  Compare that the bum rush when ROR was moved.

Not a fair comparison. Everybody knows ROR was dealt before the bonus money kicked in and that limited the return. As for Eichel, pretty sure I believe the rumours he wanted out more. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Karmanos

Ventura

Galimini 

Reinhart trade getting Levi

Risto trade

Eichel trade (I don't think we'll win this but it could have been worse)

Sending Power back

Drafting Quinn

Idk, I think Adams has failed at times and you highlight those but he's doing some good. I just don't see him as a yes man, it's not his style. 

Karmanos, Ventura, Galimini, for me just names until they prove themselves with what they do.  Pending.

Reinhart for Levi. Were you excited by this when it happened? I don't remember what you said specifically but most people here were all upset about just getting a 7th round draft choice. IF Levi is the real deal (and I think he is) good trade. Pending.

Risto trade check.

Eichel trade. Losing situation. I don't blame him even if this is one sided. rock and a hard place. 

Power chose to go back. 

Quinn. Pending. 

You see I'm not going to credit him with futures and possibilities. I'm only going to look at what's been done and what's on the ice. We've been down the stocked cupboard bright future road before and that car ended up in a ditch. 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

Karmanos, Ventura, Galimini, for me just names until they prove themselves with what they do.  Pending.

Reinhart for Levi. Were you excited by this when it happened? I don't remember what you said specifically but most people here were all upset about just getting a 7th round draft choice. IF Levi is the real deal (and I think he is) good trade. Pending.

Risto trade check.

Eichel trade. Losing situation. I don't blame him even if this is one sided. rock and a hard place. 

Power chose to go back. 

Quinn. Pending. 

You see I'm not going to credit him with futures and possibilities. I'm only going to look at what's been done and what's on the ice. We've been down the stocked cupboard bright future road before and that car ended up in a ditch. 

I don't think we've ever come close to assembling the talent we currently have at any point in the last decade. You're right though, it's all hopes and dreams still. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Well, apparently Adams does have problem with asking too much.

Or because the two previous highly-recommended hires kinda sucked and let them down, leading them to be skeptical of the NHL heirarchy?

And because they had lengthy first-hand experience with Adams succeeding in every task they had previously handed him?

Also, what CEO/owner doesn't want staff to do what they want? I've worked for bosses who gave me a lot of latitude in achieving their goals my way, but I've never worked for one who let me do what I want.

I disagree entirely. Most teams recognize they need a senior director or advisor type and a GM and an assistant GM. They seem adverse to this, and I think that's about control. 

As for CEOs, some micromanage and some designate and evaluate based on performance. They don't all stick their fingers in. Lots of them go golfing and just expect results. 

To me, it all goes back to LaFontaine. 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I disagree entirely. Most teams recognize they need a senior director or advisor type and a GM and an assistant GM. They seem adverse to this, and I think that's about control. 

As for CEOs, some micromanage and some designate and evaluate based on performance. They don't all stick their fingers in. Lots of them go golfing and just expect results. 

To me, it all goes back to LaFontaine. 

We really don't know what transpired with the LaFontaine situation. He ended up getting paid off with a non-disclosure clause. There seemed to be too many chiefs in the tribe. The situation was not sustainable. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

We really don't know what transpired with the LaFontaine situation. He ended up getting paid off with a non-disclosure clause. There seemed to be too many chiefs in the tribe. The situation was not sustainable. 

Oh yes, and we've been so successful since haven't we? 

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Oh yes, and we've been so successful since haven't we? 

I don't know what your response relates to? 

[tom webster]

17 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't lack imagination, I've just given up on blind faith, hoping and wish fulfillment when it comes to the Sabres. Fool me once and all that.

There is no known factual basis for 3. You're just wishing that to be true. 

As for 4. what "extensive knowledge of the league" compared to say Rutherford or Dudley or whoever else you want to list? Even JBott had more experience. Adams wasn't even an assistant GM. 

I have no idea if Adams is a "stupid yes man only" or not (your words not mine) but so far I see nothing that impresses me. Staal was useless. Eakin is a has been. Hayden is meh. Botched the goalie situation. etc. Only the Risto trade was a clear win. We are worse right now than we were. Everything is just next year...........

History is full of examples of people with little to no experience were the best people for the job. This is especially true in an era were what once was thought to be absolute has been completely discredited by information never before available.

10 hours ago, JohnC said:

We really don't know what transpired with the LaFontaine situation. He ended up getting paid off with a non-disclosure clause. There seemed to be too many chiefs in the tribe. The situation was not sustainable. 

The fact that Lafontaine hasn’t been mentioned for any positions of comparable stature since should tell you all you need to know.

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

 

The fact that Lafontaine hasn’t been mentioned for any positions of comparable stature since should tell you all you need to know.

Neither has Tim Murray, nor Teddy Nolan.

Phil Housley and Jason Botterill have shuffled back to the assistant level they came from.

Dan Bylsma is an assistant in the minor leagues.

Ralph Krueger is out of hockey.

I’m seeing a pattern here.

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Neither has Tim Murray, nor Teddy Nolan.

Phil Housley and Jason Botterill have shuffled back to the assistant level they came from.

Dan Bylsma is an assistant in the minor leagues.

Ralph Krueger is out of hockey.

I’m seeing a pattern here.

Break the pattern!

Maybe KA is a shrewd GM and builds a solid team that competes for a long time and he has a Darcy like career in Buffalo.

[GASabresIUFAN]

15 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Karmanos

Ventura

Galimini 

Reinhart trade getting Levi

Risto trade

Eichel trade (I don't think we'll win this but it could have been worse)

Sending Power back

Drafting Quinn

Idk, I think Adams has failed at times and you highlight those but he's doing some good. I just don't see him as a yes man, it's not his style. 

He has strengthened the front office but with Zero results so far.  As you pointed out our top picks outside Power are struggling from last years draft.  His two teams are a disaster.  He has completely failed to improve the goaltending.  His D group as you also pointed out is also terrible.  

Yes he did pretty well dumping the old core.  Now what?  More picks and prospects at the deadline?  Yippee!  At least the kids will come and play. 

My real hope is that we see some hockey trades at the deadline if possible.  Use our cap space if possible to get the veteran D we need at the deadline. Maybe a real goaltender shakes loose.  He should view this deadline as a jump start on next season.
 

Do I think KA has the skills to make this happen? No, but there is always hopium.   Maybe some other idiot will pay a first for Miller. (I doubt it).  Maybe our jacking up Hagg’s PK time will help get him traded for something decent.  

My greatest hope is KA is promoted before the deadline and Karmanos is placed in charge.