Potential Sabres deadline moves(sellers)…

[GoPuckYourself]

I like the feel good story that Anderson has brought and shows these young kids what it's like to be a pro but I don't want feel good stories next season, I want to at least act like we're trying to make the playoffs even if I know we're most likely another season away. We need a legit veteran goalie to contend with UPL (Keumpfer, Koskinen, Korpisalo), while we wait to see what we really have with Levi and Portillo or have Levi/UPL battle it out and have Portillo in Rochester or Portillo/Levi battle it out in Rochester, however we decide to do this.

We should deal all players with value and take on contracts that will net us picks for salary dumps and hopefully in those dumps we come away with a RHD. I fully expect Craig Anderson, Vinny Hinistroza, Colin Miller, Robert Hagg, Mark Pysyk and hopefully Victor Olofsson dealt at the deadline. I wouldn't be opposed to them keeping Hinistroza.

[woods-racer]

47 minutes ago, MattPie said:

This. If Anderson wants a shot at a cup, find a way to make that happen. Almost don't care what the return is, you set the guy up. Maybe have him back next year if he's up for it.

I think KA would do it in a heart beat if it wasn't for Anderson being a big reason why they are winning as of late. I know that momentum doesn't carry over to the next season but the younger players are getting confidence and that does carry over.  

I'm sure the players would think highly of KA if he did it, but they also want to win. 

[dudacek]

Latest After the Whistle had Harrington, Rivet and Hamilton speculating hard that the Sabres have Power partner targeted from outside the organization and they haven’t caught a whiff of who it might be.

And they wouldn’t be surprised if that player is brought in now.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Latest After the Whistle had Harrington, Rivet and Hamilton speculating hard that the Sabres have Power partner targeted from outside the organization and they haven’t caught a whiff of who it might be.

And they wouldn’t be surprised if that player is brought in now.

It's gonna be what's his name from Minny.  No that's not it.  Where is he now?  Book it.

[MattPie]

1 hour ago, GoPuckYourself said:

We should deal all players with value and take on contracts that will net us picks for salary dumps and hopefully in those dumps we come away with a RHD. I fully expect Craig Anderson, Vinny Hinistroza, Colin Miller, Robert Hagg, Mark Pysyk and hopefully Victor Olofsson dealt at the deadline. I wouldn't be opposed to them keeping Hinistroza.

SDS tried to start a thread on this the other day, and I agree with the premise. If you actually trade away 6 starting players is that good long-term for the team, relative to the assets coming back? Having this team lose 1/4 of the players just as they're coming together might be worse than a handful of 3-5 rd picks. I think if you get a good deal for any of those players that brings back a player that has a shot for next year, then maybe. I'm not sure you trade away Pysyk for a 5th, for example.

[dudacek]

51 minutes ago, MattPie said:

SDS tried to start a thread on this the other day, and I agree with the premise. If you actually trade away 6 starting players is that good long-term for the team, relative to the assets coming back? Having this team lose 1/4 of the players just as they're coming together might be worse than a handful of 3-5 rd picks. I think if you get a good deal for any of those players that brings back a player that has a shot for next year, then maybe. I'm not sure you trade away Pysyk for a 5th, for example.

This team is going to have to turn over at least a 1/4 of its players if it wants to improve next year any way. Why wait?

[sweetlou]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Latest After the Whistle had Harrington, Rivet and Hamilton speculating hard that the Sabres have Power partner targeted from outside the organization and they haven’t caught a whiff of who it might be.

And they wouldn’t be surprised if that player is brought in now.

Petry from Montreal

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

Petry from Montreal

Interesting option.  Pretty old though.  Signed for 3 more years, age 35-37 seasons.

He also has a NTC (15 team no trade list), so I don’t know if that’s a real option.

[MattPie]

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This team is going to have to turn over at least a 1/4 of its players if it wants to improve next year any way. Why wait?

Fair. Is it better to do that over the summer, or do it now and have (presumably) a few weeks of terrible hockey after having a few games where things seem to be clicking.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, MattPie said:

Fair. Is it better to do that over the summer, or do it now and have (presumably) a few weeks of terrible hockey after having a few games where things seem to be clicking.

This is reasonable, but you’ve got to remember that you’re likely to substitute Power for Hagg, UPL for Anderson, Girgensons for Eakin, Quinn for Hinostroza and Fitzpatrick for Pysyk.

It’s not really a talent drop off and should not presumably equate to worse hockey. And as far as chemistry goes, the “new” guys except Power are already integrated into the room.

[nfreeman]

22 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Levi won't be ready, he'll start in Roch.  UPL gets his chance in Buffalo.   Portillo stays at Michigan or goes back to Sweden to play pro.

Portillo going to Sweden to train in the SHL (presumably after signing with the Sabres) is an interesting idea.  Not sure whether KA would prefer him fighting Levi for the #1 job in Rochester to the SHL, but maybe.  

[Marvin]

32 minutes ago, MattPie said:

Fair. Is it better to do that over the summer, or do it now and have (presumably) a few weeks of terrible hockey after having a few games where things seem to be clicking.

I personally would move only 2 players or so and only as favours to them.  IMHO, you can make more changes over the summer because players should expect a few guys at locker clean-out day to not be here next season.

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Latest After the Whistle had Harrington, Rivet and Hamilton speculating hard that the Sabres have Power partner targeted from outside the organization and they haven’t caught a whiff of who it might be.

And they wouldn’t be surprised if that player is brought in now.

It would make sense, he’d have to be a player with term whom they hope to get here to finish the season so he can become integrated into the team. If MTL just tosses us Petry for little cost, for example, he would have time to buy a home and become acquainted with the team.

[thewookie1]

Other players I can think of that match that context would be Connor Murphy from the Blackhawks, Girard/E.Johnson from the Avs, Orlov from the Capitals, and Gudas from Florida 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

This is reasonable, but you’ve got to remember that you’re likely to substitute Power for Hagg, UPL for Anderson, Girgensons for Eakin, Quinn for Hinostroza and Fitzpatrick for Pysyk.

It’s not really a talent drop off and should not presumably equate to worse hockey. And as far as chemistry goes, the “new” guys except Power are already integrated into the room.

Your post makes a lot of sense. However, where I disagree with you is if UPL replaces Anderson I would consider that a drop off, maybe a significant drop. At this stage in his lengthy career I don't see Anderson as a workhorse goalie for us next year. But if he is a second goalie with less usage then I do see him playing effectively for us. That is why I believe that it is an imperative that another goalie be brought in this offseason to shore up the position. 

My guess is that KA is going to rely on UPL as the primary goalie next year with Anderson being the backup. In my opinion that would be a big gamble. What is evident in these last half a dozen games is that when this acknowledged incomplete team gets quality backstopping this team can respectably complete. And that point was also evident when Ullmark was our goalie. It just seems to me that counting on UPL to carry the major load is an unnecessary risk when this team seems to be making positive strides. 

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Your post makes a lot of sense. However, where I disagree with you is if UPL replaces Anderson I would consider that a drop off, maybe a significant drop. At this stage in his lengthy career I don't see Anderson as a workhorse goalie for us next year. But if he is a second goalie with less usage then I do see him playing effectively for us. That is why I believe that it is an imperative that another goalie be brought in this offseason to shore up the position. 

My guess is that KA is going to rely on UPL as the primary goalie next year with Anderson being the backup. In my opinion that would be a big gamble. What is evident in these last half a dozen games is that when this acknowledged incomplete team gets quality backstopping this team can respectably complete. And that point was also evident when Ullmark was our goalie. It just seems to me that counting on UPL to carry the major load is an unnecessary risk when this team seems to be making positive strides. 

We absolutely need to see what UPL has to offer down the stretch in order to inform our off-season decision-making process.

[GoPuckYourself]

3 hours ago, MattPie said:

SDS tried to start a thread on this the other day, and I agree with the premise. If you actually trade away 6 starting players is that good long-term for the team, relative to the assets coming back? Having this team lose 1/4 of the players just as they're coming together might be worse than a handful of 3-5 rd picks. I think if you get a good deal for any of those players that brings back a player that has a shot for next year, then maybe. I'm not sure you trade away Pysyk for a 5th, for example.

Isn't this where those salary dumps would come into play? 

I doubt we trade every single one of those guys at the trade deadline. Lets say we trade Hagg, Miller, Eakin, Anderson and Olofsson. We still have plenty of veterans in Okposo, Hinistroza, Girgensons  and Tuch has established himself in the leadership role.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

We absolutely need to see what UPL has to offer down the stretch in order to inform our off-season decision-making process.

It certainly would be useful to see how UPL plays in Buffalo as the season winds down. But I wouldn't consider it a necessity. Getting heavy duty playing time in Rochester, and hopefully a playoff run in the AHL would also be a beneficial experience for him. I still feel strongly that another experienced goalie should be added to the mix this offseason to hedge the risk of prematurely designating UPL as a NHL goalie to rely on. And considering the high rate of injury for goalies the organization needs to add another experienced goalie to the mix. 

[DarthEbriate]

10 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

Isn't this where those salary dumps would come into play? 

I doubt we trade every single one of those guys at the trade deadline. Lets say we trade Hagg, Miller, Eakin, Anderson and Olofsson. We still have plenty of veterans in Okposo, Hinistroza, Girgensons  and Tuch has established himself in the leadership role.

You've mentioned trading VO a couple times and I'm now on the opposition. He's getting healthy and his shot is back. He can make that shot against VGK. Thompson maybe can, Quinn maybe can. VO makes that shot. With his slapper soon to return, he provides a legitimate 20G scorer from the 3W or even 4W with PP time (Kotalik-style). That's a guy we can afford to keep for 3-4 years no problem, even with a little overpay, while all these young studs like Quinn and JJP and Power are coming onto their RFA/bridges. Make Quinn make VO expendable. Don't move VO just because he's a "blocker" to an unproven kid.

You can always trade him and that shot later if needed, but if you rent him for a 2nd this TDL and then Quinn is hurt next season... you've lost the balancing snipers on your PP.

[woods-racer]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It certainly would be useful to see how UPL plays in Buffalo as the season winds down. But I wouldn't consider it a necessity. Getting heavy duty playing time in Rochester, and hopefully a playoff run in the AHL would also be a beneficial experience for him. I still feel strongly that another experienced goalie should be added to the mix this offseason to hedge the risk of prematurely designating UPL as a NHL goalie to rely on. And considering the high rate of injury for goalies the organization needs to add another experienced goalie to the mix. 

They need a second Anderson to play with UPL. I just think we hit the jackpot with Anderson that at his age he still has some really good game left and is perfect in the locker room. I think they can find one if there are salary cap dumps, but no way KA gives up a major asset to get one.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, woods-racer said:

They need a second Anderson to play with UPL. I just think we hit the jackpot with Anderson that at his age he still has some really good game left and is perfect in the locker room. I think they can find one if there are salary cap dumps, but no way KA gives up a major asset to get one.

I agree with your comment. I don't believe it will require a major asset to acquire another goalie. Our cap situation (as you noted) puts us in a good position to add another goalie. 

[dudacek]

30 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It certainly would be useful to see how UPL plays in Buffalo as the season winds down. But I wouldn't consider it a necessity. Getting heavy duty playing time in Rochester, and hopefully a playoff run in the AHL would also be a beneficial experience for him. I still feel strongly that another experienced goalie should be added to the mix this offseason to hedge the risk of prematurely designating UPL as a NHL goalie to rely on. And considering the high rate of injury for goalies the organization needs to add another experienced goalie to the mix. 

 

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with your comment. I don't believe it will require a major asset to acquire another goalie. Our cap situation (as you noted) puts us in a good position to add another goalie. 

If you are intending to acquire a legitimate proven NHL starter you are absolutely going to have to invest significant assets.

If you are intending to acquire a 1B type then you definitely need to see evidence beyond what we've seen so far in order to project UPL as his battery mate, or it will be this year all over again.

[GoPuckYourself]

25 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

You've mentioned trading VO a couple times and I'm now on the opposition. He's getting healthy and his shot is back. He can make that shot against VGK. Thompson maybe can, Quinn maybe can. VO makes that shot. With his slapper soon to return, he provides a legitimate 20G scorer from the 3W or even 4W with PP time (Kotalik-style). That's a guy we can afford to keep for 3-4 years no problem, even with a little overpay, while all these young studs like Quinn and JJP and Power are coming onto their RFA/bridges. Make Quinn make VO expendable. Don't move VO just because he's a "blocker" to an unproven kid.

You can always trade him and that shot later if needed, but if you rent him for a 2nd this TDL and then Quinn is hurt next season... you've lost the balancing snipers on your PP.

Ok I'll take that argument, so say he's being paid 4-4.5M per season where do you see him fitting? Line 1 over Tuch? Line 2 over jack Quinn? Line 2 over J.J. Peterka? He'll be 27 at the start of next season. that's great that he made a nice shot the other night but he doesn't do it nearly enough. His rookie season was his best with 20 goals and 42 points in 52 games, 13 goals in 2020 and 32 points in 56 games and this year now he has injury concerns, 10 goals and 27 points in 50 games so far. This to me is a very replaceable player imo.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

 

If you are intending to acquire a legitimate proven NHL starter you are absolutely going to have to invest significant assets.

If you are intending to acquire a 1B type then you definitely need to see evidence beyond what we've seen so far in order to project UPL as his battery mate, or it will be this year all over again.

I'm looking for a 1B goalie to add to the mix. Even with the addition I'm not eliminating Anderson from the roster if he wants to come back. Our difference revolves around my concern over putting too much reliance on UPL as a primary goalie at this stage of his career. I'm not down on him as a prospect. For me, it is too much and too soon to rely on him. I would love to be wrong. It just seems that this team is starting to move in the right direction. You can see that team progression when our goalies play well. Why risk it by rushing the issue with our current prime goalie prospect. 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm looking for a 1B goalie to add to the mix. Even with the addition I'm not eliminating Anderson from the roster if he wants to come back. Our difference revolves around my concern over putting too much reliance on UPL as a primary goalie at this stage of his career. I'm not down on him as a prospect. For me, it is too much and too soon to rely on him. I would love to be wrong. It just seems that this team is starting to move in the right direction. You can see that team progression when our goalies play well. Why risk it by rushing the issue with our current prime goalie prospect. 

You're reading me wrong. The bold is exactly my concern as well.

What I'm not getting across well enough is that I need to see more from UPL before I am willing to commit to him even as half of a 1B combo.

Based on what I've seen of him so far, we need to acquire a goalie who clearly better than him, not a Korpisalo or some such he can compete with.

I'd like to see him get 15 or 20 games down the stretch to prove he's capable of even 25-30 NHL games next year.