Alex Tuch, a key piece in the Eichel trade

[Buffalonill]

I think he becomes a star like Wheeler when he became the "guy" 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Bill Hoppe tweeted last night that these might be Tuch’s first steps into becoming a star.

Would be an awesome, if somewhat unexpected, result of the trade.

Eh.  I wouldn't say yesterday stood out much from other games he's played this year.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Eh.  I wouldn't say yesterday stood out much from other games he's played this year.

Sabres drama is Sabres drama, even if it could be viewed as good drama.  We can't live without the drama.

[nfreeman]

10 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

It was just a throw-away remark. I didn't mean to get under your craw.

 

Sorry.

A craw is gotten into, sir, not under.

#narrative 

[JohnC]

11 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.... did Gionta literally say that about "treat a cafeteria or parking attendant like crap or snap at a secretary because they took too long accommodating a request"?

Gionta on the Instigator Show a while back did make comments about an entitled young player not treating everyone in the building with respect. He also talked about how a leader should conduct himself and behave professionally. He didn't specifically mention a name but everyone knew who he was talking about.

The GM also made less than oblique references on WGR on how he expected players to represent the shield and the city. He stated that the standard was not being met by all. Everyone knew who he was talking about. 

I'm not a Jack basher. He got stuck in a dysfunctional system and understandably wanted out.  But there were issues associated with the environment/culture that needed to be changed. It was obvious by numerous comments emanating from the inside what was going on. For outsiders who were less than clueless it was not too difficult to discern what the situation was. 

[mjd1001]

33 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Gionta on the Instigator Show a while back did make comments about an entitled young player not treating everyone in the building with respect. He also talked about how a leader should conduct himself and behave professionally. He didn't specifically mention a name but everyone knew who he was talking about.

The GM also made less than oblique references on WGR on how he expected players to represent the shield and the city. He stated that the standard was not being met by all. Everyone knew who he was talking about. 

I'm not a Jack basher. He got stuck in a dysfunctional system and understandably wanted out.  But there were issues associated with the environment/culture that needed to be changed. It was obvious by numerous comments emanating from the inside what was going on. For outsiders who were less than clueless it was not too difficult to discern what the situation was. 

I don't remember the comment so I have a legit question, were there any other 'young' players he played with here that could fit the description?

Ristolained, Eichel, Reinhart, Girgensons, and Evander Kane all were on the Sabres when Gionta was here, they all are former 1st round picks and all were under 25 years old at the time. Any chance it wasn't Eichel but maybe Sam or Evander he was talking about?  Or was the context of the conversation pointing at Eichel for sure?

[Doohicksie]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't remember the comment so I have a legit question, were there any other 'young' players he played with here that could fit the description?

Ristolained, Eichel, Reinhart, Girgensons, and Evander Kane all were on the Sabres when Gionta was here, they all are former 1st round picks and all were under 25 years old at the time. Any chance it wasn't Eichel but maybe Sam or Evander he was talking about?  Or was the context of the conversation pointing at Eichel for sure?

[NAF]

Tuch 4 captain. Thoughts? Seems like a very high character guy. I can't think of anyone more suitable that'll be here for the long haul.

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, NAF said:

Tuch 4 captain. Thoughts? Seems like a very high character guy. I can't think of anyone more suitable that'll be here for the long haul.

Seems like? Why?

[K-9]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

Gionta on the Instigator Show a while back did make comments about an entitled young player not treating everyone in the building with respect. He also talked about how a leader should conduct himself and behave professionally. He didn't specifically mention a name but everyone knew who he was talking about.

The GM also made less than oblique references on WGR on how he expected players to represent the shield and the city. He stated that the standard was not being met by all. Everyone knew who he was talking about. 

I'm not a Jack basher. He got stuck in a dysfunctional system and understandably wanted out.  But there were issues associated with the environment/culture that needed to be changed. It was obvious by numerous comments emanating from the inside what was going on. For outsiders who were less than clueless it was not too difficult to discern what the situation was. 

I didn’t hear that radio conversation, but in that podcast with his brother last summer, Gionta wasn’t alluding to Eichel, but rather other players that our young corp at the time gravitated towards vs the leadership example provided by him and Gorges. 

[LGR4GM]

47 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I didn’t hear that radio conversation, but in that podcast with his brother last summer, Gionta wasn’t alluding to Eichel, but rather other players that our young corp at the time gravitated towards vs the leadership example provided by him and Gorges. 

coughbogocoughkanecough 

[thewookie1]

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't remember the comment so I have a legit question, were there any other 'young' players he played with here that could fit the description?

Ristolained, Eichel, Reinhart, Girgensons, and Evander Kane all were on the Sabres when Gionta was here, they all are former 1st round picks and all were under 25 years old at the time. Any chance it wasn't Eichel but maybe Sam or Evander he was talking about?  Or was the context of the conversation pointing at Eichel for sure?

Girgensons was praised by Gionta many times during their time together for his qualities on and off the ice and Adams chose to keep him around so I doubt he was part of the off ice problematic behavior.

Reinhart is the typical Canadian boy who, aside from his spouts with Paul Hamilton, seemed to be a genuinely nice person. Perhaps his mood soured via corruption and made him less friendly?

Kane was almost certainly the original culprit in the whole leadership group's problems. We know for a fact he was late to meetings and practices. 

Ristolainen is an interesting question; he was never very extroverted off the ice and perhaps misery slowly made him a grump around the rink? 

Eichel is a weird one because he seems almost Jackal and Hyde in his personas. Sometimes he comes across as a genuinely good guy who just loves hockey and the fans. While also displaying signs of being a legitimate "Mass"-hole when out of general sight. 

 

At very least I think Kane may have brought the worst out of Eichel by making it "acceptable" to be an ass to people as long as you played well. Where you certainly saw a different Jack was when interacting with children; he seems to have a legitimate soft spot for children and enjoys interacting with them. Its kind of akin to he wants to pay back to children what pros may had done for him in the past yet potentially sees team workers and the media as peons only there to serve him. Just go through his career with the media in Buffalo. In all but one year he gave snarky quick answers or came across as entitled or spoiled. The media must beg for the scraps beneath the table. Then when he became Captain you saw a change, he became respectable and personable with the media. Botts refuses to make any moves to save 2 seasons in a row and Eichel just goes back to being a jerk again. 

[Zamboni]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

coughbogocoughkanecough 

Exactly. Those are the two for sure.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

I didn’t hear that radio conversation, but in that podcast with his brother last summer, Gionta wasn’t alluding to Eichel, but rather other players that our young corp at the time gravitated towards vs the leadership example provided by him and Gorges. 

This was a different and separate appearance on the Instigator Show. 

I want to make clear that I'm not suggesting that Jack was a bad dude because that was not the case. He did a lot of charity work with children with cancer where he wasn't seeking attention. However, there was a sense of entitlement that the organization to an extent fostered. It was a big mistake in designating him captain when he wasn't ready for it. And the organization responded to his demands/requests for bringing in players when it should have been a strictly organizational matter. 

However the Jack issue is framed I side with him more than the organization. Overall, the organization failed to construct a competitive team in a reasonable period of time because of its repeated miscues. Jack's major fault (which in mind is not a fault) is that he was an intense competitor who wanted to wim. He felt stuck in a bad situation. So he made it clear that he wanted out. His position was understandable just as much as the organization's position of moving on was understandable. Each side acted in their own respective interest. 

I wish Jack good health and nothing but the best. He's in a good situation being on a veteran and cup contending team. And the Sabres made the right decision in deciding to reset and rebuild. This type of departing scenario happens everywhere in all sports. It's part of all sports and relationships. 

 

 

 

[GoPuckYourself]

4 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't remember the comment so I have a legit question, were there any other 'young' players he played with here that could fit the description?

Ristolained, Eichel, Reinhart, Girgensons, and Evander Kane all were on the Sabres when Gionta was here, they all are former 1st round picks and all were under 25 years old at the time. Any chance it wasn't Eichel but maybe Sam or Evander he was talking about?  Or was the context of the conversation pointing at Eichel for sure?

All of them but Girgensons are gone so I'd say probably all of them in some way or another.

[Flashsabre]

I will be absolutely shocked if Tuch isn’t named next Captain. Mike Rupp on NHL Network says he fully expects it to happen.

I mean Tuch checks every single box Adams could possibly want in a Captain to set the culture in Buffalo.

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I will be absolutely shocked if Tuch isn’t named next Captain. Mike Rupp on NHL Network says he fully expects it to happen.

I mean Tuch checks every single box Adams could possibly want in a Captain to set the culture in Buffalo.

The biggest problem does not revolve around the captaincy as it does the dearth of talent. Whether Tuch or Okposo becomes the captain has little bearing on how each of them can influence the rest of the squad. They can have the same influence as captains or not just by the way they conduct themselves. You don't have to be a designated leader in order to lead. 

This organization is in the process of incorporating young players onto the roster. They need more of them. It's going to take time.  

[Buffalonill]

4 hours ago, NAF said:

Tuch 4 captain. Thoughts? Seems like a very high character guy. I can't think of anyone more suitable that'll be here for the long haul.

The guy is a true fan of the team and understands this fanbase how much *****  We have been through.

Yes hes my captain 

[Doohicksie]

I feel like Jack's last year here was a ***** show smothered in Covid sauce.  There are a lot of of directions to point fingers but what it really came down to was a perfect storm and aside from Krueger sucking I'm not sure there's anyone to blame.

• Ralph F-ing Krueger
• Jack not wanting to go through a "down to the studs rebuild"
• Jack being hurt and trying to play through it, not realizing how bad it was
• A newly minted GM trying to reconcile his head coach, his star player and his own desire for a rebuild
• Bringing in vets that simply didn't pan out in an attempt to appease Jack
• Jack missing most of the season once he realized how bad it was
• A goalie situation rivaling that of Spinal Tap drummers

Aside from Krueger, much of the shittiness of the season was caused by a philosophical difference in the direction of the team between Jack and Kevyn.  But if the perfect storm of Covid, Jack's injury and the revolving goalies hadn't happened, maybe the performance levels Hall and Staal don't fall of the table and the Sabres are a playoff contender and Adams is convinced that a less major build is required.  As it turned out, the events of last season conspired to prove that Kevyn was indeed correct in wanting to burn it down and start over.

[IKnowPhysics]

Notes on some numbers.  If it wasn't obvious, Tuch is absolutely balling out right now.

His production rates lead the Sabres and he's among top-of-the-league in several categories (among players with more than 100mins 5v5 played):

Total Assists/60 - 4th most with 2.4

First assists/60 - 5th most with 1.71

Total points/60 - 7th most with 3.43

For reference, peak Eichel was 1.6, 1.03, and 2.43, respectively (again 5v5, no PP).

Tuch's 3.43 5v5 P/60 is the most we've seen from a Sabres since sometime before 2007 (database limit).  He's killing it at even strength play in a franchise-historical way.

If anyone was worried that we were trading away the now for the future by trading away Eichel, Tuch should be helping you sleep a little better.  And then add Krebs whose 1.25G/60 over his 11 games, if sustained, would be 32nd most in the league and constitute first line scoring production.  And then add the 1st and a 2nd, which would be 21st and 53rd overall based on today's standings.

Now, I'm not saying Tuch or Krebs or the 1st or 2nd are as complete players as Eichel.  But the aggregate production of the package return may be able to accomplish more than the individual.

[Brawndo]

 

[Weave]

9 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

 

Now, I'm not saying Tuch or Krebs or the 1st or 2nd are as complete players as Eichel.  But the aggregate production of the package return may be able to accomplish more than the individual.

And this was always the rationale behind the arguments that he could be moved successfully.

[IKnowPhysics]

46 minutes ago, Weave said:

And this was always the rationale behind the arguments that he could be moved successfully.

Sure.  But the outcome doesn't always favor the package over the player, and the Sabres have been both perpetrators and victims of that.

I didn't think there was no solution to move forward, but there was an entire universe of bad ideas possible.  I'm glad KA held the line and didn't compromise the return on paper- because it initially appears to have worked.

[Weave]

17 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Sure.  But the outcome doesn't always favor the package over the player, and the Sabres have been both perpetrators and victims of that.

I didn't think there was no solution to move forward, but there was an entire universe of bad ideas possible.  I'm glad KA held the line and didn't compromise the return on paper- because it initially appears to have worked.

Of course the outcome is always in doubt.

And conventional wisdom is the team that gets the better player wins the trade.  Fortunately, winning the trade wasn’t the goal in this case.  The goal was to build a deeper team.

[Thorner]

9 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

It’s 13 games.

Also the entire Twitter Sabres narrative is shaped by Chad and Kevin I’m hoping sabrespace remains independent lol