Alex Tuch, a key piece in the Eichel trade

[triumph_communes]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

This is a very strange word choice. 

Lacking social context is exactly what it means

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

IMO, the wrong way to look at it.  If the players on the team are playing well enough to make the playoffs, that needs to be acknowledged.  Selling players off of a playoff bound team would be psychologically damaging to the environment that the Sabres are trying to create.

I understand your viewpoint from a cold hard logic perspective, but I believe it would adversely affect the humans involved.

I honestly don't believe I'll need to worry about it. 

At most 1 or maybe 2 defenders get shipped out but they get replaced by better younger guys. For forwards, I don't think anyone takes any of our guys so it's just moving guys up from Rochester. 

[triumph_communes]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

So where is the line in the sand?  Within 10 points of the playoffs on TDL day?

Couldn’t say for sure without being a birdie in the room knowing what’s going on in there. 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

So where is the line in the sand?  Within 10 points of the playoffs on TDL day?

5 points. At 10 points with loser points and the like, it's hard to make that up in 20 games (I think that's a rough estimate of time remaining in a season)

[Doohicksie]

4 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Lacking social context is exactly what it means

No, it's a neurodevelopmental disorder.  You might want to back off that usage.

[triumph_communes]

8 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

No, it's a neurodevelopmental disorder.  You might want to back off that usage.

It’s a spectrum. Stop stigmatizing it

[PerreaultForever]

43 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

If this team can sniff playoffs, selling destroys whatever mojo you’ve built up in the room. And that’s worth far more than a 2nd round lottery ticket. Silly this autistic line of thinking hasn’t been buried when Murray left 

Oh I don't think so. Nobody's going to be unhappy if we ditch Miller and say, call up Samuelson for the end of the year or another move where a young player comes in for some scrub we ship out. 

It's pretty much a non issue anyway as we have few people anyone will want at the deadline. and the retreads like Caguila and Hagg and so on all know they are not in the long term plans here. They're not complete idiots. 

[triumph_communes]

6 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Oh I don't think so. Nobody's going to be unhappy if we ditch Miller and say, call up Samuelson for the end of the year or another move where a young player comes in for some scrub we ship out. 

It's pretty much a non issue anyway as we have few people anyone will want at the deadline. and the retreads like Caguila and Hagg and so on all know they are not in the long term plans here. They're not complete idiots. 

That’s different. Expel Miller into orbit as soon as someone can backfill his role 

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Imagine, if you will, Buffalo finds themselves as buyers at the deadline... with the opportunity to break a 10 year playoff drought hanging in the balance.

Are any of these draft picks in play?

I’m usually gung ho on GM’s supporting a team to keep it in contention, but this maybe the one time I’m not.  50% of this team are JAGs, that’s way to much for a GM to cure at the deadline unless we bring up the kids from Rochester.  Honestly that seems like the mostly likely place to get upgrades; Samuelsson, Krebs, JJP, and Quinn would all upgrade this roster.  Hopefully UPL continues his current form and becomes an upgrade as well.  

Ultimately with our currently improved prospect depth and 4 1sts and 4 2nds in the next two drafts, we could find ourselves with good depth and a contending team  for the next decade.  That seems more important to me then going for it this season.  

I remember when Don Waddell went for it with the Thrashers and it was an epic fail. That failure was the ultimate death blow for the team here in Atlanta.  

The question is is there a middle ground?  If KA can utilize the cap space and or lower picks to get upgrades, I’d probably be onboard.

[Doohicksie]

53 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

It’s a spectrum. Stop stigmatizing it

It is, but using it as a pejorative is what stigmatizes it.

Stop it.

[dudacek]

You can’t talk about sell-off in the abstract.

If we trade Hinostroza, Butcher, Miller and Eakin for futures and replace them with Quinn, Power, Samuelsson and Krebs, haven’t we actually made our team better for the playoffs?

The only pending FAs on this roster you could actually trade and realistically make this team worse are Anderson and Olofsson.

Edited November 16, 2021 by dudacek

[thewookie1]

I would have to be curious to ponder what we should do if the hypothetical scenario arose where we were hovering around the DeLuca .500 come the Olympic break. I certainly wouldn't push in all the chips for some nigh-kamikaze playoff run but I'd certainly search for a potential short term 26 to 28 year old player who has a couple years on his deal left. Effectively a J.T. Miller depending on his personality and price. I'd trade our lowest 1st this year and one of our Non-Power Dmen prospects for him. But only in that specific situation as center depth is vital in a playoff chase and run. Otherwise, a good goalie stop gap would be my only other potential target.

Regardless I'd want to still go into this draft with 2 1sts and next year with at least 2 2nds; so effectively my budget is our lowest 1st, a 2nd in 2023 and one of the D prospects, likely Johnson. This does not exclude any sales of UFAs like Butcher, potentially Miller, and any JAG forward not named Girgs. Tuch would effectively be our default "playoff" acquisition.

[Flashsabre]

The number one thing Adams has shown is that he sticks to his plan and no one or nothing is going to make him speed up or deviate from it. He wants to properly develop the kids and that is what he is going to do regardless of the standings.

[Thorner]

14 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Imagine, if you will, Buffalo finds themselves as buyers at the deadline... with the opportunity to break a 10 year playoff drought hanging in the balance.

Are any of these draft picks in play?

The Sabres find themselves right at the top of the bottom 4th of the league through 14 games, they'd need to move into the upper half to qualify. Are we thinking the Sabres are likely to improve upon their start, from here on out? Can't see it happening - schedule isn't going to get any easier and neither are the rosters of the teams we are playing 

13 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

It should have no impact on your plan. Nothing in the first or second round should be in play and you should still sell ufas if you get good offers. 

If their plan is to simply make the playoffs, they've already failed. 

Selling off the UFAs for 5th round picks after your young roster clawed it's way into a playoff fight would be disastrous. 

Imagine sending that message to the kids. What a brutal mistake that would be.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Thorny

[Thorner]

13 hours ago, Curt said:

IMO, the wrong way to look at it.  If the players on the team are playing well enough to make the playoffs, that needs to be acknowledged.  Selling players off of a playoff bound team would be psychologically damaging to the environment that the Sabres are trying to create.

I understand your viewpoint from a cold hard logic perspective, but I believe it would adversely affect the humans involved.

Yep, correct. Sorry, just got to this 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 

Selling off the UFAs for 5th round picks after your young roster clawed it's way into a playoff fight would be disastrous. 

Imagine sending that message to the kids. 

Do you really think trading the likes of Eakin and Hagg at the deadline and replacing them with Krebs and Power is going send a bad message to Dahlin and Cozens?

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Do you really think trading the likes of Eakin and Hagg at the deadline and replacing them with Krebs and Power is going send a bad message to Dahlin and Cozens?

The only way the Sabres are in a playoff fight at that stage is if those guys are positively contributing, so yes, I really do think that 

[Thorner]

11 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’m usually gung ho on GM’s supporting a team to keep it in contention, but this maybe the one time I’m not.  50% of this team are JAGs, that’s way to much for a GM to cure at the deadline unless we bring up the kids from Rochester.  Honestly that seems like the mostly likely place to get upgrades; Samuelsson, Krebs, JJP, and Quinn would all upgrade this roster.  Hopefully UPL continues his current form and becomes an upgrade as well.  

Ultimately with our currently improved prospect depth and 4 1sts and 4 2nds in the next two drafts, we could find ourselves with good depth and a contending team  for the next decade.  That seems more important to me then going for it this season.  

I remember when Don Waddell went for it with the Thrashers and it was an epic fail. That failure was the ultimate death blow for the team here in Atlanta.  

The question is is there a middle ground?  If KA can utilize the cap space and or lower picks to get upgrades, I’d probably be onboard.

Right, I'm not advocating for Adams to go after additions in that case. Just merely to avoid taking apart what is working at the time. I'll take the continued playoff push for what that could mean mentally (and for the fanbase? isn't this what Adams is talking about? Winning back the fans?) over a few later draft picks being added to our already bursting draft pick allotment 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

The only way the Sabres are in a playoff fight at that stage is if those guys are positively contributing, so yes, I really do think that 

The Sabres players know what Adams is doing. He's had the "honest conversations"

Their job is to get better every day. That same mandate will apply pre- and post-deadline, to both the Legion of JAG and the Blinding Light Brigade.

Selling off JAGs to make space for core prospects who are ready doesn't send the wrong message. This isn't Jason Botterill ignoring centre ice as the season slips away. If Adams can get a 3rd-rounder for Eakin and in the process create a spot for Krebs to get into a playoff run, he is also staying true to that mandate.

He's certainly making making the team better in the long run, and very likely making it better in the now.

[Curt]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Do you really think trading the likes of Eakin and Hagg at the deadline and replacing them with Krebs and Power is going send a bad message to Dahlin and Cozens?

If Dahlin and Cozens played alongside Eakin and Hagg all year, and together they were in a playoff position, yes, I do think that would send a bad message.  Selling off contributing parts of a team achieving success, because “it’s part of the plan”, would be a bad course to take.

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The Sabres players know what Adams is doing. He's had the "honest conversations"

Their job is to get better every day. That same mandate will apply pre- and post-deadline, to both the Legion of JAG and the Blinding Light Brigade.

Selling off JAGs to make space for core prospects who are ready doesn't send the wrong message. This isn't Jason Botterill ignoring centre ice as the season slips away. If Adams can get a 3rd-rounder for Eakin and in the process create a spot for Krebs to get into a playoff run, he is also staying true to that mandate.

He's certainly making making the team better in the long run, and very likely making it better in the now.

Disagree with this almost entirely. 

Yes, players are robots who won't be affected at all by key producers getting removed in a playoff chase because of a conversation they had with the GM a year ago. NM the fans. NFW.

You ignored the substance of my argument, anyways. Eakin wasn't a JAG when we were winning, that's the point, and I'm pretty sure you know that. We are in 24th place now. Seems likely to me that if we somehow found our way back into a playoff hunt, we'd again be seeing solid production from the guys who were contributing solidly when we were winning. 

No, it's not Botterill, it would be *worse* than Botterill. Instead of inaction allowing a season to slip away, he'd be actively removing players that may CAUSE the season to slip away. 

Again, my stipulation is "contributing" UFAs. Selling away UFAs who are positively contributing, if we are in a playoff hunt, would be completely unacceptable unless the players Adams brings in to replace them perform as well or better. If Adams replaces them with better players, of course that would be ok. But my stated implication was clearly that we'd be removing players who were positively contributing, not "useless JAGS"

If we were in a playoff fight and the UFAs were performing negligibly, it changes the argument - but I don't see why mentioning this a further time leaves any more of an impact than it would the first time.

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Thorny

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, Curt said:

If Dahlin and Cozens played alongside Eakin and Hagg all year, and together they were in a playoff position, yes, I do think that would send a bad message.  Selling off contributing parts of a team achieving success, because “it’s part of the plan”, would be a bad course to take.

Wouldn't it then also a bad course not to re-sign these guys in the off-season?

"Cody and Robert were in the trenches with me during our glorious run to a 1st-round knockout. I can't believe Adams isn't bringing the band back. What's this Power kid ever done? Our GM clearly doesn't want to win."

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Disagree with this almost entirely. 

Yes, players are robots who won't be affected at all by key producers getting removed in a playoff chase because of a conversation they had with the GM a year ago. NM the fans. NFW.

You ignored the substance of my argument, anyways. Eakin wasn't a JAG when we were winning, that's the point, and I'm pretty sure you know that. We are in 24th place now. Seems likely to me that if we somehow found our way back into a playoff hunt, we'd again be seeing solid production from the guys who were contributing solidly when we were winning. 

No, it's not Botterill, it would be *worse* than Botterill. Instead of inaction allowing a season to slip away, he'd be actively removing players that may CAUSE the season to slip away. 

Again, my stipulation is "contributing" UFAs. Selling away UFAs who are positively contributing, if we are in a playoff hunt, would be completely unacceptable unless the players Adams brings in to replace them perform as well or better. If Adams replaces them with better players, of course that would be ok. But my stated implication was clearly that we'd be removing players who were positively contributing, not "useless JAGS"

If we were in a playoff fight and the UFAs were performing negligibly, it changes the argument - but I don't see why mentioning this a further time leaves any more of an impact than it would the first time.

 

The bold is the crux of our disagreement entirely.

You're saying if we are in the race, then the JAGs MUST be key.

I'm saying NFW, it's Cody Eakin. There is no way replacing him with Krebs is going to cost us a playoff spot.

Edited November 16, 2021 by dudacek

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The bold is the crux of our disagreement entirely.

You're saying if we are in the race, then the JAGs MUST be key.

I'm saying NFW, it's Cody Eakin.

I hear you, to me my stance is logical, though. Of course EAKIN! being a key contributor seems ridiculous, but for the purposes of this argument that idea runs flush with the "in the playoff hunt" proposition. Let's be real, here. 

It seems ridiculous but Eakin's good play earlier this year seemed ridiculously unlikely from my point of view this past offseason. Merely hypothesizing that, since he was "leading the charge" through the first few games, it's reasonable to think, in the imaginary word where we get good again this year, he's right back in that spot. 

Do I think that will happen? No

Edited November 16, 2021 by Thorny

[dudacek]

Don't you want guys like Power and Krebs playing in the playoff run, if we're in one?