Jack Eichel and 2023 3rd Traded to Vegas for F Alex Tuch, C Peyton Krebs, 2022 1st Top Ten Protected and 2023 2nd

[Dreams Burn Down]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I wonder how those trades would have been received in today’s Internet world?

People would have been camped out in front of Scotty's home and internet sleuths would have been searching for the last time that he so much as farted wrong.

[Dreams Burn Down]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Dale McCourt was a still young #1 overall pick coming off an 86 point season. Foligno was a 3rd year #2 overall player who had already put up 30 goals 70 points and 200 PIMs.

Gare and Schoeny were the heart and soul of a legit contender.

What a blockbuster.

As much as I dearly loved Foligno, one of my favorite Sabres, trading those two away was a gross miscalculation by Scotty.  From a cohesion standpoint alone, Gare and Schony brought a lot to the table.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Dreams Burn Down

[Carmel Corn]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Dale McCourt was a still young #1 overall pick coming off an 86 point season. Foligno was a 3rd year #2 overall player who had already put up 30 goals 70 points and 200 PIMs.

Gare and Schoeny were the heart and soul of a legit contender.

What a blockbuster.

Still remember that evening.  I think I was watching Ed Kilgore at the time.  I can't remember his words, but to me it struck me as being something like "hold on to your butt".  I remember some thinking that losing Derek Smith was going to be a big deal (not really though).  Breaking up the tandem of Edwards and Sauve was a bigger deal to me.  McCourt was the headliner, but obviously Foligno had the biggest impact.  Brent Peterson was a good face-off guy for sure.

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Dreams Burn Down said:

As much as I dearly loved Foligno, one of my favorite Sabres, trading those two away was a gross miscalculation by Scotty.  From a cohesion standpoint alone, Gare and Schony brought a lot to the table.

McCourt was a huge whiff.

On paper he was going to take the torch from Perreault. In practice, he was out of the NHL in 3 years.

It would be like Elias Petterson or someone like that doing the same thing today.

[bob_sauve28]

38 minutes ago, Dreams Burn Down said:

As much as I dearly loved Foligno, one of my favorite Sabres, trading those two away was a gross miscalculation by Scotty.  From a cohesion standpoint alone, Gare and Schony brought a lot to the table.

Couldn't get us over the top, though. Gare's best years were behind him. Foligno was a great pick up. 

[Taro T]

30 minutes ago, dudacek said:

McCourt was a huge whiff.

On paper he was going to take the torch from Perreault. In practice, he was out of the NHL in 3 years.

It would be like Elias Petterson or someone like that doing the same thing today.

Exactly.  

McCourt was supposedly the prize, but he turned out to be a total dud.  Peterson (and his eventually trade away) were far more impactful.  Obviously Foligno was the true prize, but he wasn't worth the cost.

This trade also made the team Perreault's as the Captain & former Captain both got dealt.  He was a great player; he was not a great leader.

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Dale McCourt was a still young #1 overall pick coming off an 86 point season. Foligno was a 3rd year #2 overall player who had already put up 30 goals 70 points and 200 PIMs.

Gare and Schoeny were the heart and soul of a legit contender.

What a blockbuster.

 

1 hour ago, Dreams Burn Down said:

As much as I dearly loved Foligno, one of my favorite Sabres, trading those two away was a gross miscalculation by Scotty.  From a cohesion standpoint alone, Gare and Schony brought a lot to the table.

An awful precursor of OSP and LQ deciding not to keep Grier and McKee (and, to a lesser, extent, Dumont) in the summer of 2006.  You just can't let that much heart walk out the door, especially when it wouldn't have cost that much to keep them.

 

[DarthEbriate]

12 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

An awful precursor of OSP and LQ deciding not to keep Grier and McKee (and, to a lesser, extent, Dumont) in the summer of 2006.  You just can't let that much heart walk out the door, especially when it wouldn't have cost that much to keep them.

It would have really freaked out the fanbase, but the 20/20 hindsight move was to trade up-and-coming offensive dynamo Afinogenov after his career year to some team that needed dazzle for 2 high picks and an up-and-coming offensive prospect to be a part of the next wave. Then, give more ice time to Paille in 06-07. Keep McKee, and either Grier or Dumont (or both since they're aware you're going for the Cup and likely to take just at market value to win). And something something don't be afraid to extend players in-season.

[nfreeman]

23 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

It would have really freaked out the fanbase, but the 20/20 hindsight move was to trade up-and-coming offensive dynamo Afinogenov after his career year to some team that needed dazzle for 2 high picks and an up-and-coming offensive prospect to be a part of the next wave. Then, give more ice time to Paille in 06-07. Keep McKee, and either Grier or Dumont (or both since they're aware you're going for the Cup and likely to take just at market value to win). And something something don't be afraid to extend players in-season.

I agree except that I would rather have traded Roy or Vanek than Max, who was one of the most electrifying players ever to play for the Sabres and who played harder than Roy or Vanek.

[kas23]

25 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I agree except that I would rather have traded Roy or Vanek than Max, who was one of the most electrifying players ever to play for the Sabres and who played harder than Roy or Vanek.

If only we didn’t match Vanek’s offer sheet….

[DarthEbriate]

43 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I agree except that I would rather have traded Roy or Vanek than Max, who was one of the most electrifying players ever to play for the Sabres and who played harder than Roy or Vanek.

That's the dilemma: in the summer of '06 Max was 26 and the leading points-scorer on the team (because Briere missed time with his hernia). Vanek was a 22 year-old coming off a 25-goal rookie campaign and still learning how to play at the NHL level. Roy was also instrumental to that team, but Connolly is not always of full health, so you hate to lose the center depth.

That '06 summer, Max gives you the best immediate trade value. Vanek really breaks out the following President's Cup season... which is what drove his offer sheet to the extreme. It's the get-you-out-of-seat electrifying perimeter playmaker vs. the kid you don't yet know is going to be a PP stalwart in front of the net for the next 10 years and be around 30G every year. 

17 minutes ago, kas23 said:

If only we didn’t match Vanek’s offer sheet….

That's the next summer. Buy yes... if we had already locked up Briere and Drury, then maybe we've got 8 firsts for the next four years to bolster the core for the next decade. (Although... it was late-era GMDR making the picks, which was not really making hay through the drafts.) And no tank necessary.

[Brawndo]

6 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

And this, I think, is the exact reason why the Pegulas didn't want to authorize this surgery.  They wanted no part of any responsibility if something like this should happen to Jack.  And I don't blame them.

I still believe if they both figured into each other’s long term plans, the Sabres would have authorized the ADR. 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Dreams Burn Down said:

As much as I dearly loved Foligno, one of my favorite Sabres, trading those two away was a gross miscalculation by Scotty.  From a cohesion standpoint alone, Gare and Schony brought a lot to the table.

Bowman liked who he liked, and did not like certain Sabres.   Rene Robert had words with him during Team Canada series versus Soviets.  Robert was gone quickly once Bowman arrived. 
 

Gare, Tony  McKegney, and Terry Martin were all single, good friends, and big time partiers.  Bowman got rid of all of them. 
 

 

 

[Dreams Burn Down]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

It would have really freaked out the fanbase, but the 20/20 hindsight move was to trade up-and-coming offensive dynamo Afinogenov after his career year to some team that needed dazzle for 2 high picks and an up-and-coming offensive prospect to be a part of the next wave. Then, give more ice time to Paille in 06-07. Keep McKee, and either Grier or Dumont (or both since they're aware you're going for the Cup and likely to take just at market value to win). And something something don't be afraid to extend players in-season.

McKee was my favorite defenseman from that era.  He was a tough and selfless player.  He and Warrener were one of my favorite defensive pairings in Sabre history.  The two of them were never flashy; they were just stalwarts back there.

[Doohicksie]

27 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I still believe if they both figured into each other’s long term plans, the Sabres would have authorized the ADR. 

Of course.  But by the time it was apparent to the Pegulas he needed surgery, he was already on his way out the door.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Bowman liked who he liked, and did not like certain Sabres.   Rene Robert had words with him during Team Canada series versus Soviets.  Robert was gone quickly once Bowman arrived. 
 

Gare, Tony  McKegney, and Terry Martin were all single, good friends, and big time partiers.  Bowman got rid of all of them.

Ironically, he didn't get along with Mike Foligno either.  Foligno was a freelancer and wouldn't buy into Bowman's system.

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

I still believe if they both figured into each other’s long term plans, the Sabres would have authorized the ADR. 

I’ve wondered about that, too. But in talking to a couple orthopedic friends (both of them knee, not spine specialists), they are pretty convinced that Dr. Cappuccino would never have given his OK even if the Pegulas did and they cited favoring more stability vs. more flexibility as the reason because of the violent nature of collisions in hockey and the unprecedented nature of the ADR procedure in hockey players. 

Let’s hope Eichel comes back to being the elite player he was and makes future decisions easier for everyone involved should another hockey player face the same injury and treatment options.

 

[Norcal]

The trade talk in this thread has been seriously upgraded recently.

Good read the last few pages.

[kas23]

1 hour ago, Norcal said:

The trade talk in this thread has been seriously upgraded recently.

Good read the last few pages.

Addition by subtraction. 

[Marvin]

Anyone else liking Tuch as much as I do?

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

Ironically, he didn't get along with Mike Foligno either.  Foligno was a freelancer and wouldn't buy into Bowman's system.

I never knew that.  Not sure what he thought of Schoeny or if he just had to package him you get McCourt and Foligno  

 

Rick Martin despised Scotty.  Claims he made him play too soon with the knee injury.  When he shipped him to LA he was damaged goods.  Shame.  Rick Martin was on a HOF trajectory.  
 

[Pimlach]

Thanks ref. Two ***** calls.  Two PP goals 

[Pimlach]

I don’t get Granato’s breakouts.  Lingering back in our defensive zone and then making long passes to get into the stars  zone - no zone time. Once we do get it we are 1 on 2 or 3.  
 

Probably more due to talent, I hope.  

Edited January 21, 2022 by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

Nice Tuch.  
 

Can we get a few more Tuch’s on the team?  
 

 

[Brawndo]

14 hours ago, K-9 said:

I’ve wondered about that, too. But in talking to a couple orthopedic friends (both of them knee, not spine specialists), they are pretty convinced that Dr. Cappuccino would never have given his OK even if the Pegulas did and they cited favoring more stability vs. more flexibility as the reason because of the violent nature of collisions in hockey and the unprecedented nature of the ADR procedure in hockey players. 

Let’s hope Eichel comes back to being the elite player he was and makes future decisions easier for everyone involved should another hockey player face the same injury and treatment options.

 

If the Pegulas were in agreement with Jack’s Decision and Dr Cappuccino refused to authorize or perform the ADR,  Eichel would have still gone to Dr Prusmack in Colorado for the procedure. 
 

Unfortunately teams and players do not always take the advice of the organization’s medical staff 

16 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Of course.  But by the time it was apparent to the Pegulas he needed surgery, he was already on his way out the door.

Even if they agreed to allow the ADR from Day One, Jack was gone at that point