Jack Eichel and 2023 3rd Traded to Vegas for F Alex Tuch, C Peyton Krebs, 2022 1st Top Ten Protected and 2023 2nd

[Sabres Fan in NS]

12 hours ago, Pimlach said:

What happened to the real Doohickie in Fort Worth? 

Check out @The Ghost of Yuri profile and you'll find your answer.

There are a number (well 3) Ghosts around regularly now and will be for about 6 months.  After that ... only *The Shadow* knows.

[Hoss]

39 minutes ago, SDS said:

There is more than one player who can be contacted. Jack does not own the entirety of player opinion for ever more. 

That’s a concern. He’s not alone in publicly smashing this franchise.

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

When you're a career -92 it's relevant.   

For sure. It’s relevant to how atrocious this franchise has been with Samson on board. He was never given a chance to excel. He’s off to a very good start in Florida and is even a +4. Long season but him being a + for the first time in his career the second he leaves Buffalo completely destroyed your attempt to make it relevant to Samson.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Sorry if that comes off as flippant but players not wanting to come to Buffalo is way down our list of problems right now. 

The bigger problem is not players wanting to come to Buffalo as it is players in Buffalo who get tired of the losing want to go elsewhere. That is exemplified by Eichel, Reinhart and Risto who were determined to get out of town. 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, JohnC said:

The bigger problem is not players wanting to come to Buffalo as it is players in Buffalo who get tired of the losing want to go elsewhere. That is exemplified by Eichel, Reinhart and Risto who were determined to get out of town. 

If you are perceived as a winning culture or at least a team on the upswing, there will always be plenty of folks who will sign up for that. The perpetual losing and the stigma of a failed organization is what remains the perduring issue. Lot of new talent and more coming. Hopefully the Pegulas are patient and get it right this time.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The bigger problem is not players wanting to come to Buffalo as it is players in Buffalo who get tired of the losing want to go elsewhere. That is exemplified by Eichel, Reinhart and Risto who were determined to get out of town. 

Literally why I said winning fixes this

[Sabres Fan in NS]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The bigger problem is not players wanting to come to Buffalo as it is players in Buffalo who get tired of the losing want to go elsewhere. That is exemplified by Eichel, Reinhart and Risto who were determined to get out of town. 

With respect, I don't see either as a problem.  It's no secret that the Sabres are bad and are not the best managed team in the NHL, or even Pee Wee hockey.

What needs to happen right away is that we need stable management that knows a thing or two about running a hockey team and a stable coach that knows how to grow a team of kids into something.  I am hopeful for that.

Once the management is in place then the players will be in place and the team will improve.  Then winning will happen and playoff(s) will happen.  Then players will want to stay here and come here.

[Brawndo]

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

590 out of Toronto is playing an interview with Elliot Friedman about the Sabres in general. The events of the past couple of days. I don't know if it's live or not but it's definitely an additional interview to his first one with Jack. Not sure if anyone can find a link to post but it's kind of interesting.

A lot of it is his opinion not necessarily fact, but he hinted that ownership/Pegula felt a little bit betrayed by Jack with the trade request 2 years ago and they may have impacted the way things went from there.

Also, he said it was important to get a player like Alex Tuch who would come out and openly say how happy he is to be a member of the team.

Said he's impressed by how Kevin Adams handled a difficult situation and impressed by his patience.

He jokingly called Adams a jerk, because he said Adams didn't leak much information to him or to many people around him so it made it hard on reporters. He said that if there were any leaks, he doubts they came from Adams.

Hinted that Jack is very intense and wants things done quickly. Expects a lot of himself and everyone around him including his agent. The reason he made the agent change was strictly to get this moving quickly. That contrasted with Adams who was willing to be his patient as possible with this to get the better deal, which was a point of conflict. The goal of the new agent was to put as much pressure on the sabers as possible.

 

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

A little more info from Friedman on his interview...

Said Calgary was very interested but it never got close to closing the deal. He doesn't believe there was any truth to Calgary willing to give up Thachuk. Sabres were more interested in Krebs than any other prospect from Calgary, and more interested in Tuch than any other roster player that was available from Calgary. 

Calgary definitely willing to give up a future first round pick possibly a 2nd future first, but didn't have the roster players/prospects Sabres wanted.

Friedman keeps on stressing over and over how big a part of the deal and how much the Sabres really wanted Tuch.. as a very key piece and a leader of the team going forward.

Said the Carolina had interest but they didn't want to give up Jarvis, and there was some concern about how Eichel would fit in with the rest of the team.

Mentioned Anaheim dropped out a while ago, they may not have been comfortable with The surgery issue.

Montreal was never in it, they also had concerns about whether Eichel would fit in with the team, or as Friedman put it whether he was the 'right play' for them.

 

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

One more thing Friedman just brought up, said Buffalo should be worried about how they handled the injury situation and the fact that they wouldn't let Jack get his surgery of choice.

When the question was asked to press Frieedman on that, he said that a few players have told him they would have second thoughts about playing for Buffalo because of how they treated Jack regarding the injury.

He said behind the scenes the situation between Jack and the sabers was personal and nasty, more than most people know.

If anyone is interested, this sounds like it is actually the 32 Thoughts Podcast from yesterday. 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/32-thoughts-the-podcast/id1332150124

[JohnC]

15 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

With respect, I don't see either as a problem.  It's no secret that the Sabres are bad and are not the best managed team in the NHL, or even Pee Wee hockey.

What needs to happen right away is that we need stable management that knows a thing or two about running a hockey team and a stable coach that knows how to grow a team of kids into something.  I am hopeful for that.

Once the management is in place then the players will be in place and the team will improve.  Then winning will happen and playoff(s) will happen.  Then players will want to stay here and come here.

There already is a management team in place. Is it capable? It appears that KA has systematically put together a good staff. Time will tell. I thought that our last draft was very good. And for the most part the return for the departing players was solid, especially for Risto and Jack. If eventually Levi becomes a franchise goalie then the Reinhart return will look a lot better. Again, only time will tell. 

[SabresVet]

 

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

One more thing Friedman just brought up, said Buffalo should be worried about how they handled the injury situation and the fact that they wouldn't let Jack get his surgery of choice.

When the question was asked to press Frieedman on that, he said that a few players have told him they would have second thoughts about playing for Buffalo because of how they treated Jack regarding the injury.

He said behind the scenes the situation between Jack and the sabers was personal and nasty, more than most people know.

The only way to combat the negative image will be to win.  Won't happen this season, but this is what makes Adams' job all the more difficult: he's rebuilding the roster, minor league system and organizational reputation simultaneously...and all during/after trading their best player.  And of course, with a fan base that is as disinterested since the post-Rigas years.  

I'm not sure Adams gained points from the Eichel saga, but having so many players want out and going into rebuild mode with a low-cost roster means they have to earn their reputation as a player destination. 

 

 

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

That’s a concern. He’s not alone in publicly smashing this franchise.

For sure. It’s relevant to how atrocious this franchise has been with Samson on board. He was never given a chance to excel. He’s off to a very good start in Florida and is even a +4. Long season but him being a + for the first time in his career the second he leaves Buffalo completely destroyed your attempt to make it relevant to Samson.

Glad to see he's being sheltered in FLA where he's currently a -1 TRpm.

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, Hoss said:

No, not really. As far as point production goes: Samson has five seasons of more than 20 goals, Tuch has zero. Samson has six seasons of 40 or more points. Tuch has one. Six seasons over .5 PPG. Tuch has two.

They’re not close. Tuch is a 30-50 point player. Samson is a 50-70 point player.

 

To be more precise, Tuch has averaged about 20 goals and 23 assists per 82 games over his first four full NHL seasons.

Reinhart averaged 22 goals and 28 assists over his.

Tuch’s numbers from last season, pro-rated over 82 games amount to about 27 goals and 21 assists.

He also has 19 goals in 66 NHL playoff games.

 

2 hours ago, kas23 said:

Pretty sure this is just Brisson/Jack getting a jab in on the way out the door. We have now seen Friedman was just Brisson’s puppet. Just anecdotes to make a point. I’m sure there were also plenty of players who said the opposite. Plus, those naysayers would undoubtedly change their tune when presented with a multi-million dollar contract to play for a contender. That, and people have short memories.

I think it’s naive to think there aren’t players out there who will be influenced by this.

Fortunately, Adams does not seem to be interested in them either, so it’s not really an issue. I agree if his rebuild works, this will fade.

I have no trouble believing that Terry feels betrayed by Jack, or that for Jack and Terry it became personal.

I give Adams credit for the way he has tried hard - and for the most part successfully - to take a high road around this.

[Hoss]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

To be more precise, Tuch has averaged about 20 goals and 23 assists per 82 games over his first four full NHL seasons.

Reinhart averaged 22 goals and 28 assists over his.

Tuch’s numbers from last season, pro-rated over 82 games amount to about 27 goals and 21 assists.

He also has 19 goals in 66 NHL playoff games.

He’s been a monster in the playoffs, I’m excited about that. But he’s also only six months younger than Samson. In the two seasons since his first four (meaning years five and six), Samson is pacing 32 goals and 29 assists per 82 games.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Hoss

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

He’s been a monster in the playoffs, I’m excited about that. But he’s also only six months younger than Samson. In the two seasons since his first four (meaning years five and six), Samson is pacing 32 goals and 29 assists per 82 games.

For sure. Not trying to diminish Sam at all.

Hoping Tuch can follow his path and thinking it’s possible.

[Porous Five Hole]

41 minutes ago, Hoss said:

He’s been a monster in the playoffs, I’m excited about that. But he’s also only six months younger than Samson. In the two seasons since his first four (meaning years five and six), Samson is pacing 32 goals and 29 assists per 82 games.

But don’t you think he might fit into a nice middle six role if our front line prospects develop accordingly? When Tuch is on, he’s got a great motor.  

[Hoss]

8 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

But don’t you think he might fit into a nice middle six role if our front line prospects develop accordingly? When Tuch is on, he’s got a great motor.  

Don’t get me wrong, I’m excited to have Tuch. He’s not a star by any means but he’s a guy who will make impactful plays. He’s also just not Samson Reinhart.

[thewookie1]

4 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Don’t get me wrong, I’m excited to have Tuch. He’s not a star by any means but he’s a guy who will make impactful plays. He’s also just not Samson Reinhart.

Well they are different players; they produce at a similar rate but have different manners of accomplishing their work.

Reinhart was generally a passer and cerebral player

Tuch uses his speed to create space and cause breakdowns.

 

The one thing Tuch has over Reinhart is an infectious type of play that can spread amongst his teammates regardless of skill level. Reinhart’s highlights are golf clappers and thoughtful. Tuch’s highlights are rowdy cheering that get you wildly flailing your arms.

 

Both are great; wish we had both 

 

[Hoss]

2 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Well they are different players; they produce at a similar rate but have different manners of accomplishing their work.

Reinhart was generally a passer and cerebral player

Tuch uses his speed to create space and cause breakdowns.

 

The one thing Tuch has over Reinhart is an infectious type of play that can spread amongst his teammates regardless of skill level. Reinhart’s highlights are golf clappers and thoughtful. Tuch’s highlights are rowdy cheering that get you wildly flailing your arms.

 

Both are great; wish we had both 

 

I know they’re different players. That’s been my point. Someone tried claiming he was Samson.

They don’t produce at a similar rate, though. Also, Samson definitely wasn’t a passer last year.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Hoss

[triumph_communes]

Tuch put up all those numbers on a third line. Sam did it with Eichel. Tuch is a better player y’all just in denial 

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, Hoss said:

I know they’re different players. That’s been my point. Someone tried claiming he was Samson.

They don’t produce at a similar rate, though. Also, Samson definitely wasn’t a passer last year.

They don't produce at the SAME rate, but I think you can say their production is indeed similar:

 

Since the start of their career, per 82 games:

Sam:  24.0 goals, 29.5 assists

Tuch:  19.6 goals, 25.0 assists

 

That is just per game played. Tuch did his with less ice time and a LOT less PP time:

Per 60 minutes:

Sam:  0.73 goals per 60,  1.69 points per 60

Tuch 0.76 gals per 60, 1.83 pionts per 60.

In terms of their production, per 60 is the purest measure how how someone produces per time on ice...and Tuch is actually slightly better than Sam (but similar)

 

Over 34% of Sams goals were on the PP. Only 19.6% of Tuch's were.  The primary reason is Tuch got about 50% less PP time than Sam. But back out those numbers....Tuch is actually a more productive scorer even strength than Sam...and with more PP time his PP goal totals would likely go up.

Even Strength Sam produced  .193 goals per game even strenth. Tuch produced .196.  And Tuch did it with less minutes per game.

Even Strength goals per 60:   Sam .642,   Tuch .741

 

Overall I think it is totally fair to say they produced at a similar rate. I many aspects (most actually other than on the Power play), Tuch can be said to produce at a slightly higher rate than Sam.

Edited November 6, 2021 by mjd1001

[Randall Flagg]

16 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Tuch put up all those numbers on a third line. Sam did it with Eichel. Tuch is a better player y’all just in denial 

I've watched a lot of both players and it's clear Sam is a step above. We all know how you feel about sam. It was nice that his play after the eichel injury finally quieted that talk for a little bit. I guess it's safe to bring it back though 

[LGR4GM]

51 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Tuch put up all those numbers on a third line. Sam did it with Eichel. Tuch is a better player y’all just in denial 

[Doohicksie]

18 hours ago, dudacek said:

A very interesting take from one of Lebrun’s anonymous executives.

The Flames leak got put out there to piss Calgary off and basically remove Vegas’ only remaining competition.

I think it also put Krebs solidly into the package.

Edited November 6, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri

[inkman]

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

Tuch put up all those numbers on a third line. Sam did it with Eichel. Tuch is a better player y’all just in denial 

I hope you are right 

[Doohicksie]

17 hours ago, Pimlach said:

What happened to the real Doohickie in Fort Worth? 

He's changed his avatar to some dog and goes by the Ghost of Yuri.  He started the whole ghost thing.  You want in?  The next Ghost is that of Andrew Amerk (who is now the Ghost of NS).

[Doohicksie]

On 11/4/2021 at 8:08 AM, SDS said:

I wonder what the chances are for either of these two players to be disgruntled upon coming over? I wonder if we got to speak with them at all?

You've probably seen this by now, but reports are that Tuch is thrilled, grew up a Sabres fan and his parents and Tim Connolly's parents did (and still do) live on the same street in suburban Syracuse.  Krebs and Cozens are friends and played world juniors on the same line and looking forward to playing together again.  That's the PR version, not sure what either really thinks but at least there are good words so far.

Edited November 6, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri