Jack Eichel and 2023 3rd Traded to Vegas for F Alex Tuch, C Peyton Krebs, 2022 1st Top Ten Protected and 2023 2nd

[Doohicksie]

58 minutes ago, BUFtoNCfan said:

Seriously, can someone explain this to me. We are giving $6,000,000.00 to a player that won’t play. I understand we need to get to the floor. Why not rework some contracts and give a bonus to a bunch of our players? The kids want to be here and the product on the ice (excluding past couple games) has been certainly more entertaining. I mean give it to the guys on the ice. What am I missing?

You can't renegotiate existing contracts or give bonuses I'm pretty sure.  And someone somewhere said it's actually not going to cost the actual cap hit of $6 million.  I just looked it up.  For 2021-22, his cap hit is $6 million but his compensation for the year is actually $4 million, $2.75 million of which is a signing bonus which has already been paid, and a $1.25 million salary which we are picking up at game.... 8?  So we will have to pay him about 90% of that.

(If you're not aware, the cap hit is the total contract divided by the number of years, even if the it's not paid out that way.  He had a 7 year, $42 million contract that is in its last year, so his cap hit is $6 million.)

[Doohicksie]

This is what they call "Cap Management."

 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, BUFtoNCfan said:

Seriously, can someone explain this to me. We are giving $6,000,000.00 to a player that won’t play. I understand we need to get to the floor. Why not rework some contracts and give a bonus to a bunch of our players? The kids want to be here and the product on the ice (excluding past couple games) has been certainly more entertaining. I mean give it to the guys on the ice. What am I missing?

(1) Boychuk is only making $1.25M in salary.  The rest was paid as a bonus in July.

(2) You can’t “rework” contracts in the NHL.  I know this is done in the NFL regularly, but in the NHL contracts are fully guaranteed and terms are not altered after the contract is signed.

(3) Welcome to the board.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Curt

[thewookie1]

22 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Contingent trades are not legal in the CBA. Vegas will figure out their cap in other ways. Doesn’t mean a second deal can’t happen with Vegas, but I don’t believe there’s any way one is already decided. Too much can change between now and then.

It wouldn't be anything official, but just like "Future Considerations" can effectively mean nothing or something.

 

Effectively Adams could say, we both know I like Theodore or Whitecloud or etc and we both know that you are a mile over the cap. So if the time comes and you need more cap space, you know my number.

[nfreeman]

From LeBrun in the Athletic:

 

Sources confirmed Thursday that not nearly as many teams got serious on Eichel as one would think for a player of his caliber. His health situation, his $10-million cap hit and the timing of the Sabres wanting to move him were all contributing factors for some teams who just couldn’t make a meaningful move.

The final three suitors, according to sources, were Vegas, Calgary and Carolina…

The Anaheim Ducks had stayed in touch with the Sabres dating back to last summer but fell out of it, I’m told, because they weren’t ready to risk dealing for him pre-surgery. 

[Hoss]

5 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

From LeBrun in the Athletic:

 

Sources confirmed Thursday that not nearly as many teams got serious on Eichel as one would think for a player of his caliber. His health situation, his $10-million cap hit and the timing of the Sabres wanting to move him were all contributing factors for some teams who just couldn’t make a meaningful move.

The final three suitors, according to sources, were Vegas, Calgary and Carolina…

The Anaheim Ducks had stayed in touch with the Sabres dating back to last summer but fell out of it, I’m told, because they weren’t ready to risk dealing for him pre-surgery. 

I’m curious about Carolina. If they were “serious” I wonder what they offered. They’ve got a ton of good young players who are already on the NHL roster.

[Thorner]

7 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

From LeBrun in the Athletic:

 

Sources confirmed Thursday that not nearly as many teams got serious on Eichel as one would think for a player of his caliber. His health situation, his $10-million cap hit and the timing of the Sabres wanting to move him were all contributing factors for some teams who just couldn’t make a meaningful move.

The final three suitors, according to sources, were Vegas, Calgary and Carolina…

The Anaheim Ducks had stayed in touch with the Sabres dating back to last summer but fell out of it, I’m told, because they weren’t ready to risk dealing for him pre-surgery. 

Jack also mentioned he felt he was close to being an Av. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

This is definitely a common opinion on the non-Sabres hockey Internet.

Vegas is in the bottom of its division and probably isn't going to be playing hockey too far into April unless it gets some players back from injury.  (This is why I'm pissed about the top ten protection on the pick.)

You have to admit the Blues/ROR parallels are pretty clear.

We were saying the same thing three years ago around this time. The Sabres were looking improved. The coach was popular. We weren’t convinced yet Dylan and Peyton, I mean Casey and Tage, sucked… 😘

[Digger]

Dang it.  After faithfully reading the Eichel trade thread daily all summer and fall I missed the big trade call today.  Busy day for me at work and didn't catch it until the drive home (although it sounded like a trade might be close last night).  It has been great reading catching up on all the posts tonight though.  Glad as most have said that the trade is finally over, the Eichel trade drama is finally over.

I'm happy with the return and think Adams did a good job considering.  Glad to hear that Tuch will want to play for the Sabres.  Also I really like Krebs and believe that he will play well and mesh well with Cozens someday in the Sabres lineup.  Krebs is another high character player with talent and I'm sure the fans will love him when he settles in with the Sabres.  Top 10 protected pick.  Okay I'll take #11 if that works out.

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

Krebs to rochester per Adams presser

I figure that Malone might be the most upset today.  No, I'm not giving up my wingers in Quinn and Peterka.

[BUFtoNCfan]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

This isn’t football, you can’t rework deals. The cap hit is $6 million but the actual money owed is l think $1.2 million and part is covered by insurance so Buffalo is only paying like $500,000. 

This gives the leeway. Say a team called and wanted Colin Miller and offer a prospect or pick the Sabres liked. Miller makes about $3.3 million I believe. Before they would have to take on money or find it somewhere to stay above the floor and be compliant. Now they could move Miller and not worry about the cap floor. It gives them more flexibility to make deals.

Thanks you! I think I understand.

 

[Hoss]

20 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Jack also mentioned he felt he was close to being an Av. 

This felt like it was him referencing the summer and he seemed to really think that was happening. Man, I want to know what those deals looked like (just as a fan of the inner workings of front offices, not really in the context of being a Sabres fan).

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

This felt like it was him referencing the summer and he seemed to really think that was happening. Man, I want to know what those deals looked like (just as a fan of the inner workings of front offices, not really in the context of being a Sabres fan).

yes i've seen all of the lord of the rings extended edition making-of behind the scenes documentaries as well 

[Buffalonill]

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

It’s also kinda why they had to have it 

Yeah.  I heard about the trade in the shower this morning and was pretty excited--Krebs, Tuch, and a first sounded like a very good return given where I think Vegas will end up this year.  And then, an hour later, I learned that the first is protected, and, well, it took a lot of shine off.  I still think it's ok though.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Eleven

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

I’m curious about Carolina. If they were “serious” I wonder what they offered. They’ve got a ton of good young players who are already on the NHL roster.

LeBrun on Insider Trading mentioned that the Sabres ask started with either Seth Jarvis or Martin Necas and this was no go for The Hurricanes

[Flashsabre]

https://hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Kevin-Thursdays-25-thoughts-What-an-algorithm-says-about-Eichel-deal/1/114381

Algorithm says Sabres won the deal😜😁

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

https://hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Kevin-Thursdays-25-thoughts-What-an-algorithm-says-about-Eichel-deal/1/114381

Algorithm says Sabres won the deal😜😁

that seems like a pretty questionable "algorithm". It says Eichel's "value number" was docked by about 100 points because he was hurt and needed surgery - but it says we won the overall total by 400 points. So even with a healthy, elite-level Jack, the algorithm says we destroyed them 

[Curt]

Was pretty busy today.  I am just catching up to things on here.

Overall I think this is an ok return.  Not as good as I hoped for when I first pondered trading Eichel in May, but better than I thought they would get when I was at my most pessimistic.

We heard that Adams wanted 4 1st round equivalents, and he basically ended up getting 3.

I really like both Tuch and Krebs.  They are the type of players and people who the Sabres have been going after.  Easy guys to root for.

In the case of Tuch, a young veteran with playoff experience and ties to the region/team.

Krebs is a guy who has always held leadership positions throughout his junior years, and also helps fill in the Sabres lack of depth at C.

I don’t see Vegas being a bottom ten team, so I doubt the protection comes into play.  Best case is they just miss the playoffs, finishing with a 11-16 draft position.

Overall, it’s alright.

Sucks that they were never good with Eichel, but I’m excited about the new direction for the team.

EDIT:  Forgot to add, thank goodness that it’s over with!

Edited November 5, 2021 by Curt

[LGR4GM]

27 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

LeBrun on Insider Trading mentioned that the Sabres ask started with either Seth Jarvis or Martin Necas and this was no go for The Hurricanes

[Weave]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

that seems like a pretty questionable "algorithm". It says Eichel's "value number" was docked by about 100 points because he was hurt and needed surgery - but it says we won the overall total by 400 points. So even with a healthy, elite-level Jack, the algorithm says we destroyed them 

Even algorithms over value magic beans!

[LGR4GM]

Krebs and Jarvis share a lot of similarities in terms of being whl guys on bad teams who outproduced those teams and skate well. Jarvis has a better shot, Krebs higher hockey iq. Both look to be 60pt guys if all goes well. 

[Rasmus_]

For me, it's really mismanagement of assets from the start of hiring inexperienced hockey OPS from the start, and not sticking to a principle form the beginning.  The structure, and then the speeding up of the rebuild the first time (2016-17) was misaligned and poorly handled.  Incompetence in drafting in rounds 2-7 in almost every year for an 8 year stretch outside of random pockets, was the biggest problem at not developing a roster around Eichel. 

Jack has never once shown the inability to not be a staple in this market.  He showed pride and enthusiasm in the community and until 2020, did not question things.  However, a piss poor run of general manager's, president's of hockey operations and otherwise owners who meddled caused this.  The system entering this latest version of a rebuild has a sounder approach, and a structured hockey coach who actually works well with what he has and improves the room, the players who we have drafted and possibly a development pattern.  Adams mentioned right away about Krebs going down to Rochester to soak up the new room environment and to be around Quinn, Peterka, Samuelsson, UPL and to marinate in a great environment and grow.   

Tuch, can finally give a younger version of Okposo in the sense of a two way player with skill who can be a voice to bridge this team into what could be a stellar group going forward.  Are there questions with Adams, Karmanos and company.  Sure.  But, for me, the group of prospects starting to establish, a sound cupboard and a wide strength of depth.  The main thing that I've been disgusted with the Sabres in this process is not just letting Jack get his surgery, and causing possible more damage to his neck.  The kid had a right to question the 5th general manager and 8th head coach, as to the direction. 

I have no problem with Jack, but at this point it was time for everyone to move on.  Congrats, on going to a stellar market.  I went to a Golden Knights game in late 2019 and was surprised and impressed with the vibe around Vegas, and the arena and noise was stellar.   I love Krebs in this deal, and in a perfect world, we should have been able to acquire Brisson as well, however this is what we have.  I'm fine with the package, and Adams did stick it out to get a legitimate #1 prospect, a roster player in his prime with local connections, and pick value.  He also didn't have to bite on salary retention for a once in a generation talent.  Good luck Jack, I personally loved your game.  However, it's good to see players on the ice that are more about the jersey than the name on the back.   I like some of the trade, and I'm disappointed in a lot of it. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Rasmus_

[Flashsabre]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

that seems like a pretty questionable "algorithm". It says Eichel's "value number" was docked by about 100 points because he was hurt and needed surgery - but it says we won the overall total by 400 points. So even with a healthy, elite-level Jack, the algorithm says we destroyed them 

It was thought up by an assistant GM. It doesn’t mean anything, it was just a fun read.

 

[Zamboni]

2 minutes ago, Rasmus_ said:

For me, it's really mismanagement of assets from the start of hiring inexperienced hockey OPS from the start, and not sticking to a principle form the beginning.  The structure, and then the speeding up of the rebuild the first time (2016-17) was misaligned and poorly handled.  Incompetence in drafting in rounds 2-7 in almost every year for an 8 year stretch outside of random pockets, was the biggest problem at not developing a roster around Eichel.  Jack has never once shown the inability to not be a staple in this market.  He showed pride and enthusiasm in the community and until 2020, did not question things.  However, a piss poor run of general manager's, president's of hockey operations and otherwise owners who meddled caused this.  The system entering this latest version of a rebuild has a sounder approach, and a structured hockey coach who actually works well with what he has and improves the room, the players who we have drafted and possibly a development pattern.  Adams mentioned right away about Krebs going down to Rochester to soak up the new room environment and to be around Quinn, Peterka, Samuelsson, UPL and to marinate in a great environment and grow.   Tuch, can finally give a younger version of Okposo in the sense of a two way player with skill who can be a voice to bridge this team into what could be a stellar group going forward.  Are there questions with Adams, Karmanos and company.  Sure.  But, for me, the group of prospects starting to establish, a sound cupboard and a wide strength of depth.  The main thing that I've been disgusted with the Sabres in this process is not just letting Jack get his surgery, and causing possible more damage to his neck.  The kid had a right to question the 5th general manager and 8th head coach, as to the direction.  I have no problem with Jack, but at this point it was time for everyone to move on.  Congrats, on going to a stellar market.  I went to a Golden Knights game in late 2019 and was surprised and impressed with the vibe around Vegas, and the arena and noise was stellar.   I love Krebs in this deal, and in a perfect world, we should have been able to acquire Brisson as well, however this is what we have.  I'm fine with the package, and Adams did stick it out to get a legitimate #1 prospect, a roster player in his prime with local connections, and pick value.  He also didn't have to bite on salary retention for a once in a generation talent.  Good luck Jack, I personally loved your game.  However, it's good to see players on the ice that are more about the jersey than the name on the back.   I like some of the trade, and I'm disappointed in a lot of it. 

Omg that is a wall of text. 

I didn’t read after the first 4 sentences. Smaller bites. Paragraphs 😂

[Rasmus_]

4 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Omg that is a wall of text. 

I didn’t read after the first 4 sentences. Smaller bites. Paragraphs 😂

Done, I was typing on my phone.  My bad.  The paragraph breaks aren't great 😄