Dahlin - It’s time to take a stand

[darksabre]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It's getting a little freaking ridiculous, and I definitely consider myself to be a numbers guy. Granato was the "Dahlin whisperer", now he's not, I guess, just randomly? They don't think that MAYBE, maybe, it's not a coincidence that as soon as the guy we'd been playing as our number 1 D for years (when he wasn't at that level) gets moved, and Dahlin is the new face of the D, that his overall game would suffer? I actually think it does resemble Risto somewhat in the sense, it's another guy being played above his head/unsupported - and while I agree that Risto and Dahlin aren't the same player, I do take a different conclusion still when they point to Dahlin as just "another Risto". In team placement, sure, but not that they "both suck" now.

Chad wants to deal Rasmus right now basically. 

Agree on your conclusion at the end too. 

They were right about Risto and now they're going to be insufferable.

[Weave]

25 minutes ago, darksabre said:

They were right about Risto and now they're going to be insufferable.

They?  I seem to recall the Risto haters were Dahlin fans.  Alot of cognitive dissonance if they change their tunes.

[Thorner]

17 minutes ago, Weave said:

They?  I seem to recall the Risto haters were Dahlin fans.  Alot of cognitive dissonance if they change their tunes.

Plenty of room in between. As I said in the offseason, seeing a big jump from Dahlin *was* a must, for me. It's still too early to say this season. But from his start, yes, it could just be that he's a player with the ability to be good, but with notable flaws that need help being covered. 

A good second pair D when he's not on his game? I could see that being the result. A good player to have on your team? Yes. A case of a player living up to their draft hype? Hell no. I wouldn't hold his draft status against him, I'd be happy to have him on my team so long as he is a good player. 

He certainly can't be the guy from the last few, going forward. Some of that is on him, (again, those flaws) but strength of team is a massive factor, too. 

[mjd1001]

Defensemen take time.  Even the great ones.

Charra was awful at times early in his career in NY. It wasn't until the trade to Ottawa that he turned the corner, and even then it took him a few more years to get to Norris trophy caliber.  His 3rd and 4th year in the league was a combined -54 for plus-minus and scored a total of 4 goals over 2 seasons.  Yes he was drafted a bit lower, but he didn't have his first 'good' year until he was 24 or 25.

Erik Karlsson was not only considered bad in his own end, but he was considered a total train-wreck in his own end until he was at least 5 years into his career.

How about Victor Hedman?  I watched a lot of Lightning games over the years, and by his 3rd or 4th year, there was a LOT of talk that he would be a 'decent D-man', but most had given up hopes of him living up to his high draft status. He didn't have a break-out year putting up points until his 5th year in the league, and he was on better teams than the Sabres currently are.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Defensemen take time.  Even the great ones.

Charra was awful at times early in his career in NY. It wasn't until the trade to Ottawa that he turned the corner, and even then it took him a few more years to get to Norris trophy caliber.  His 3rd and 4th year in the league was a combined -54 for plus-minus and scored a total of 4 goals over 2 seasons.  Yes he was drafted a bit lower, but he didn't have his first 'good' year until he was 24 or 25.

Erik Karlsson was not only considered bad in his own end, but he was considered a total train-wreck in his own end until he was at least 5 years into his career.

How about Victor Hedman?  I watched a lot of Lightning games over the years, and by his 3rd or 4th year, there was a LOT of talk that he would be a 'decent D-man', but most had given up hopes of him living up to his high draft status. He didn't have a break-out year putting up points until his 5th year in the league, and he was on better teams than the Sabres currently are.

These are really good comparisons. 

I think a lot of the angst (understandably, imo) comes from having to watch guys like Hughes and Makar and Heiskanen light it up right away. Funnily enough, last I checked Hughes and Heiskanen had taken a severe step back. 

Though checking in on Miro, perhaps he's responding this season? But we can keep in mind there, he's still a year ahead of Dahlin, age wise. Heiskanen struggled last year IIRC

[darksabre]

42 minutes ago, Weave said:

They?  I seem to recall the Risto haters were Dahlin fans.  Alot of cognitive dissonance if they change their tunes.

Sports fans are fickle. They need a new fixation. 

[calti]

A majorly hyped 1st overall  should be better than a soft defenseman with above average offensive ability.

[Thorner]

D-man don't go first overall very often, and in the last, what, 20 years the ones that have haven't amounted to anything special (judgement withheld on Dahlin). This isn't a comment on Power specifically (at all), but this is why people were saying it was the "sabres luck" that it was a D man ranked first overall both times they got #1 overall recently. Years a D-man is ranked one tend to be weaker draft years. 

To me, "first overall pick" and "first overall pick D-man" don't have the same connotation in terms of what should be expected from those players 

[LGR4GM]

I think they should put Dahlin back on his off hand side and give him a different defensive partner because this is not working. He just played 4 really bad games after playing several really good games. I am not ready to make a call on him until I see a season under Granato but if by Spring 2022 it looks the same, we might need to consider moving on. 

[K-9]

Perhaps the OP meant to say, “Dahlin - It’s time to take a seat.”

[Taro T]

26 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think they should put Dahlin back on his off hand side and give him a different defensive partner because this is not working. He just played 4 really bad games after playing several really good games. I am not ready to make a call on him until I see a season under Granato but if by Spring 2022 it looks the same, we might need to consider moving on. 

Would like to see him w/ Hagg for a few games.  He's the closest thing that they have to a defensive D-man.

Guess the fairy dust Granato used to make the improbable pairing of Butcher & Dahlin work finally wore off.  Too bad.  They need some sort of unlikely pairing / grouping besides Thompson to C to pan out.

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

I was defending him last week because I thought his 1st 5 games were excellent.

The past 5? Not so much.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence his performance and the team’s have mirrored each other.

Get Butcher away from Dahlin.  He would benefit from playing with a solid stay at home type that was also physical.  

[darksabre]

23 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Get Butcher away from Dahlin.  He would benefit from playing with a solid stay at home type that was also physical.  

I gotta be honest, I'd try Dahlin with Pysyk or Hagg. They've both been doing pretty good work getting HEAVY D-zone starts. So maybe split that pair up and divide the grit across two pairs instead of one. It could fail horribly, but it's not like we have any reason not to try it.

[inkman]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

Perhaps the OP meant to say, “Dahlin - It’s time to take a seat.”

I do enjoy how this thread evolved from Dahlin needing to fight into Dahlin kinda sucks.  

[thewookie1]

Dahlin needs a D partner who can play defense and help him work through his growing pains. Dahlin is far from a lost cause as you can still see occasional flashes of his talent. He needs assistance to get his confidence back.

 

Cozens is similar in that he needs help but more so in settling him down; he wants to win the game on every early shift and over plays the puck by trying to be Pavel Datsyuk instead of Logan Couture.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

I do enjoy how this thread evolved from Dahlin needing to fight into Dahlin kinda sucks.  

I think Dahlin is pressing and might benefit from a game or two in the press box. I was miffed at his game last night and in frustration implied that he sucked, but in reality, he’s a highly talented player, playing with a total stiff for a D partner (I do think Butcher sucks). 

Edited November 5, 2021 by K-9

[inkman]

18 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I think Dahlin is pressing and might benefit from a game or two in the press box. I was miffed at his game last night and in frustration implied that he sucked, but in reality, he’s a highly talented player, playing with a total stiff for a D partner (I do think Butcher sucks). 

I’m still unsure if the talent he has equals a good NHL defenseman 

[Palm Trees And Taxes]

Would Dahlin be best with Jokiharu?

[K-9]

15 minutes ago, inkman said:

I’m still unsure if the talent he has equals a good NHL defenseman 

So far in the time he’s been here, I have to be honest and say no. The moments of great D play are few and far between and his contributions on offense don’t come anywhere near offsetting his gaffes on D. 

[IKnowPhysics]

Not only is Dahlin self-aware about what he needs to work on without being coached on it, he's taking initiative and putting the work in to improve.

 

 

[inkman]

5 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Not only is Dahlin self-aware about what he needs to work on without being coached on it, he's taking initiative and putting the work in to improve.

 

 

Too bad Matt Ellis isn’t exactly Tyler Bertuzzi 

[Thorner]

Just now, inkman said:

Too bad Matt Ellis isn’t exactly Tyler Bertuzzi 

And Dahlin certainly isn’t Steve Moore

[IKnowPhysics]

6 minutes ago, inkman said:

Too bad Matt Ellis isn’t exactly Tyler Bertuzzi 

No, you're right.  Sabres should fire Matt Ellis and hire Tyler Bertuzzi as an assistant coach.

[IKnowPhysics]

No, no that'll never work.  Hire him to head coach.

[inkman]

19 minutes ago, Thorny said:

And Dahlin certainly isn’t Steve Moore

Thinking of Todd Bertuzzi?