darksabre Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 On 11/5/2021 at 2:40 PM, Thorny said: It's getting a little freaking ridiculous, and I definitely consider myself to be a numbers guy. Granato was the "Dahlin whisperer", now he's not, I guess, just randomly? They don't think that MAYBE, maybe, it's not a coincidence that as soon as the guy we'd been playing as our number 1 D for years (when he wasn't at that level) gets moved, and Dahlin is the new face of the D, that his overall game would suffer? I actually think it does resemble Risto somewhat in the sense, it's another guy being played above his head/unsupported - and while I agree that Risto and Dahlin aren't the same player, I do take a different conclusion still when they point to Dahlin as just "another Risto". In team placement, sure, but not that they "both suck" now. Chad wants to deal Rasmus right now basically. Agree on your conclusion at the end too. Expand They were right about Risto and now they're going to be insufferable. 1 Quote
Weave Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 On 11/5/2021 at 2:44 PM, darksabre said: They were right about Risto and now they're going to be insufferable. Expand They? I seem to recall the Risto haters were Dahlin fans. Alot of cognitive dissonance if they change their tunes. 1 Quote
Thorner Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 On 11/5/2021 at 3:11 PM, Weave said: They? I seem to recall the Risto haters were Dahlin fans. Alot of cognitive dissonance if they change their tunes. Expand Plenty of room in between. As I said in the offseason, seeing a big jump from Dahlin *was* a must, for me. It's still too early to say this season. But from his start, yes, it could just be that he's a player with the ability to be good, but with notable flaws that need help being covered. A good second pair D when he's not on his game? I could see that being the result. A good player to have on your team? Yes. A case of a player living up to their draft hype? Hell no. I wouldn't hold his draft status against him, I'd be happy to have him on my team so long as he is a good player. He certainly can't be the guy from the last few, going forward. Some of that is on him, (again, those flaws) but strength of team is a massive factor, too. Quote
mjd1001 Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 Defensemen take time. Even the great ones. Charra was awful at times early in his career in NY. It wasn't until the trade to Ottawa that he turned the corner, and even then it took him a few more years to get to Norris trophy caliber. His 3rd and 4th year in the league was a combined -54 for plus-minus and scored a total of 4 goals over 2 seasons. Yes he was drafted a bit lower, but he didn't have his first 'good' year until he was 24 or 25. Erik Karlsson was not only considered bad in his own end, but he was considered a total train-wreck in his own end until he was at least 5 years into his career. How about Victor Hedman? I watched a lot of Lightning games over the years, and by his 3rd or 4th year, there was a LOT of talk that he would be a 'decent D-man', but most had given up hopes of him living up to his high draft status. He didn't have a break-out year putting up points until his 5th year in the league, and he was on better teams than the Sabres currently are. 1 Quote
Thorner Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 On 11/5/2021 at 3:44 PM, mjd1001 said: Defensemen take time. Even the great ones. Charra was awful at times early in his career in NY. It wasn't until the trade to Ottawa that he turned the corner, and even then it took him a few more years to get to Norris trophy caliber. His 3rd and 4th year in the league was a combined -54 for plus-minus and scored a total of 4 goals over 2 seasons. Yes he was drafted a bit lower, but he didn't have his first 'good' year until he was 24 or 25. Erik Karlsson was not only considered bad in his own end, but he was considered a total train-wreck in his own end until he was at least 5 years into his career. How about Victor Hedman? I watched a lot of Lightning games over the years, and by his 3rd or 4th year, there was a LOT of talk that he would be a 'decent D-man', but most had given up hopes of him living up to his high draft status. He didn't have a break-out year putting up points until his 5th year in the league, and he was on better teams than the Sabres currently are. Expand These are really good comparisons. I think a lot of the angst (understandably, imo) comes from having to watch guys like Hughes and Makar and Heiskanen light it up right away. Funnily enough, last I checked Hughes and Heiskanen had taken a severe step back. Though checking in on Miro, perhaps he's responding this season? But we can keep in mind there, he's still a year ahead of Dahlin, age wise. Heiskanen struggled last year IIRC 1 Quote
darksabre Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 On 11/5/2021 at 3:11 PM, Weave said: They? I seem to recall the Risto haters were Dahlin fans. Alot of cognitive dissonance if they change their tunes. Expand Sports fans are fickle. They need a new fixation. Quote
calti Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 A majorly hyped 1st overall should be better than a soft defenseman with above average offensive ability. Quote
Thorner Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 D-man don't go first overall very often, and in the last, what, 20 years the ones that have haven't amounted to anything special (judgement withheld on Dahlin). This isn't a comment on Power specifically (at all), but this is why people were saying it was the "sabres luck" that it was a D man ranked first overall both times they got #1 overall recently. Years a D-man is ranked one tend to be weaker draft years. To me, "first overall pick" and "first overall pick D-man" don't have the same connotation in terms of what should be expected from those players 3 Quote
LGR4GM Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 I think they should put Dahlin back on his off hand side and give him a different defensive partner because this is not working. He just played 4 really bad games after playing several really good games. I am not ready to make a call on him until I see a season under Granato but if by Spring 2022 it looks the same, we might need to consider moving on. 2 Quote
K-9 Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 Perhaps the OP meant to say, “Dahlin - It’s time to take a seat.” Quote
Taro T Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 On 11/5/2021 at 5:17 PM, LGR4GM said: I think they should put Dahlin back on his off hand side and give him a different defensive partner because this is not working. He just played 4 really bad games after playing several really good games. I am not ready to make a call on him until I see a season under Granato but if by Spring 2022 it looks the same, we might need to consider moving on. Expand Would like to see him w/ Hagg for a few games. He's the closest thing that they have to a defensive D-man. Guess the fairy dust Granato used to make the improbable pairing of Butcher & Dahlin work finally wore off. Too bad. They need some sort of unlikely pairing / grouping besides Thompson to C to pan out. 1 Quote
Pimlach Posted November 5, 2021 Author Report Posted November 5, 2021 On 11/5/2021 at 1:23 PM, dudacek said: I was defending him last week because I thought his 1st 5 games were excellent. The past 5? Not so much. I don’t think it’s a coincidence his performance and the team’s have mirrored each other. Expand Get Butcher away from Dahlin. He would benefit from playing with a solid stay at home type that was also physical. 1 Quote
darksabre Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 On 11/5/2021 at 8:09 PM, Pimlach said: Get Butcher away from Dahlin. He would benefit from playing with a solid stay at home type that was also physical. Expand I gotta be honest, I'd try Dahlin with Pysyk or Hagg. They've both been doing pretty good work getting HEAVY D-zone starts. So maybe split that pair up and divide the grit across two pairs instead of one. It could fail horribly, but it's not like we have any reason not to try it. 4 Quote
inkman Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 On 11/5/2021 at 5:19 PM, K-9 said: Perhaps the OP meant to say, “Dahlin - It’s time to take a seat.” Expand I do enjoy how this thread evolved from Dahlin needing to fight into Dahlin kinda sucks. Quote
thewookie1 Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 Dahlin needs a D partner who can play defense and help him work through his growing pains. Dahlin is far from a lost cause as you can still see occasional flashes of his talent. He needs assistance to get his confidence back. Cozens is similar in that he needs help but more so in settling him down; he wants to win the game on every early shift and over plays the puck by trying to be Pavel Datsyuk instead of Logan Couture. Quote
K-9 Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 (edited) On 11/5/2021 at 8:41 PM, inkman said: I do enjoy how this thread evolved from Dahlin needing to fight into Dahlin kinda sucks. Expand I think Dahlin is pressing and might benefit from a game or two in the press box. I was miffed at his game last night and in frustration implied that he sucked, but in reality, he’s a highly talented player, playing with a total stiff for a D partner (I do think Butcher sucks). Edited November 5, 2021 by K-9 Quote
inkman Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 On 11/5/2021 at 10:23 PM, K-9 said: I think Dahlin is pressing and might benefit from a game or two in the press box. I was miffed at his game last night and in frustration implied that he sucked, but in reality, he’s a highly talented player, playing with a total stiff for a D partner (I do think Butcher sucks). Expand I’m still unsure if the talent he has equals a good NHL defenseman Quote
Palm Trees And Taxes Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 Would Dahlin be best with Jokiharu? Quote
K-9 Posted November 5, 2021 Report Posted November 5, 2021 On 11/5/2021 at 10:42 PM, inkman said: I’m still unsure if the talent he has equals a good NHL defenseman Expand So far in the time he’s been here, I have to be honest and say no. The moments of great D play are few and far between and his contributions on offense don’t come anywhere near offsetting his gaffes on D. Quote
IKnowPhysics Posted November 7, 2021 Report Posted November 7, 2021 Not only is Dahlin self-aware about what he needs to work on without being coached on it, he's taking initiative and putting the work in to improve. Quote
inkman Posted November 7, 2021 Report Posted November 7, 2021 On 11/7/2021 at 7:10 PM, IKnowPhysics said: Not only is Dahlin self-aware about what he needs to work on without being coached on it, he's taking initiative and putting the work in to improve. Expand Too bad Matt Ellis isn’t exactly Tyler Bertuzzi Quote
Thorner Posted November 7, 2021 Report Posted November 7, 2021 On 11/7/2021 at 7:16 PM, inkman said: Too bad Matt Ellis isn’t exactly Tyler Bertuzzi Expand And Dahlin certainly isn’t Steve Moore Quote
IKnowPhysics Posted November 7, 2021 Report Posted November 7, 2021 On 11/7/2021 at 7:16 PM, inkman said: Too bad Matt Ellis isn’t exactly Tyler Bertuzzi Expand No, you're right. Sabres should fire Matt Ellis and hire Tyler Bertuzzi as an assistant coach. Quote
IKnowPhysics Posted November 7, 2021 Report Posted November 7, 2021 No, no that'll never work. Hire him to head coach. Quote
inkman Posted November 7, 2021 Report Posted November 7, 2021 On 11/7/2021 at 7:17 PM, Thorny said: And Dahlin certainly isn’t Steve Moore Expand Thinking of Todd Bertuzzi? Quote
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