Do You Think The Sabres Top Brass Sees This As A “Tank” Season?

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

So they’ve adjudged Eakin to be the best man for the job. What does that tell you? Is Adams a poor evaluation of talent? Or do we need to change our minds about what “the job” really is? 

Unrhetorical. I want to hear opinions. 

Eakin was a bad hockey player last year and expect he'll be bad again this year. It's really hard to argue that it's his job to help them win hockey games or that they could not have found a better bottom-6 centre.

The job of the kids I listed upthread is to cement themselves into the opportunities they've been offered.

The job of Eakin (Hinostroza, Caggiula, Hayden, Okposo, Girgensons, Hagg, Butcher, Pysyk) is to skate hard, be a good teammate and help create a new team identity and culture while keeping a seat warm for the Powers, Samuelssons, Quinns and Peterkas. What's in it for them is a chance to earn another contract, here or elsewhere and save their NHL careers.

 

[Thorner]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Eakin was a bad hockey player last year and expect he'll be bad again this year. It's really hard to argue that it's his job to help them win hockey games or that they could not have found a better bottom-6 centre.

The job of the kids I listed upthread is to cement themselves into the opportunities they've been offered.

The job of Eakin (Hinostroza, Caggiula, Hayden, Okposo, Girgensons, Hagg, Butcher, Pysyk) is to skate hard, be a good teammate and help create a new team identity and culture while keeping a seat warm for the Powers, Samuelssons, Quinns and Peterkas. What's in it for them is a chance to earn another contract, here or elsewhere and save their NHL careers.

 

I understand that’s Eakin’s role, but my question is about why Adams didn’t get someone better. 

Did he think Eakin *was* the best fit from hockey aptitude standpoint? Or did he purposely select a player who will lead to more losses? 

[Taro T]

36 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

He has played well before. Maybe his camp performance earned him a spot. 

To the bolded: not as a Sabre in any substantive way.

[dudacek]

23 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I understand that’s Eakin’s role, but my question is about why Adams didn’t get someone better. 

Did he think Eakin *was* the best fit from hockey aptitude standpoint? No Or did he purposely select a player who will lead to more losses? No

He told you why: your pet peeve "blocking." A "real" NHL bottom-6 centre is theoretically going to take reps away from R2, Cozens, Bjork, Thompson and Asplund — and (if the stars align) an Eichel return.

I think Eakin was under contract and Adams didn't think the team would be better off "cutting" him and signing another minimum-wage fringe player to a 1-year deal after already signing Caggiula, MacInnis, Hayden and Hinostroza.

It remains to be seen, but theoretically Eakin is not here to be a regular. He's a spare forward, who beat out Axel-Foley and MacInnis for that job.

(For the record, I disagree with Adams. Just answering your question)

Edited October 12, 2021 by dudacek

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

He told you why: your pet peeve "blocking." A "real" NHL bottom-6 centre is theoretically going to take reps away from R2, Cozens, Bjork, Thompson and Asplund — and (if the stars align) an Eichel return.

I think Eakin was under contract and Adams didn't think the team would be better off "cutting" him and signing another minimum-wage fringe player to a 1-year deal after already signing Caggiula, MacInnis, Hayden and Hinostroza.

It remains to be seen, but theoretically Eakin is not here to be a regular. He's a spare forward, who beat out Axel-Foley and MacInnis for that job.

(For the record, I disagree with Adams. Just answering your question)

Ya guess it’ll depend on if he’s a regular or not, and if he is, if he finds a new level to his game 

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I understand that’s Eakin’s role, but my question is about why Adams didn’t get someone better. 

Did he think Eakin *was* the best fit from hockey aptitude standpoint? Or did he purposely select a player who will lead to more losses? 

Regardless of why Adams brought him in/ left him available to Granato, that GRANATO appears to be ready to give him another crack at playing important minutes on an important line is EXTREMELY disconcerting.  Been told for months that Granato is the right guy for this team moving forward.  That decision runs contrary to that opinion.

That he agrees Girgensons is better as a checking line LW than a C is good.  And realize the team really does lack C's, but put Asplund or Ruotsalainen on that line instead & get the role filled by committee in that case.  My 2cents.

[dudacek]

Vancouver radio right now talking about how they are looking at the Sabres lines and "its remarkable how bad that team will be."

[Zamboni]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Vancouver radio right now talking about how they are looking at the Sabres lines and "its remarkable how bad that team will be."

And national radio 😂

[SabresVet]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

The youth are mostly developing elsewhere.

There is one kid who I am worried about this year, and that's Dylan Cozens.

The others are all 3rd and 4th year pros who have seen how the NHL works. They are being put into situations they should be ready for.

Rasmus Dahlin, you think you're a top pairing defenceman? Here's your chance to prove it.

Henri Jokiharju, you think you're top 4? Let's see it.

Casey Mittelstadt, are you really a top 6 centre? Let's see what you've got.

Tage Thompson, R2, Anders Bjork, Rasmus Asplund and  Jacob Bryson are you real NHLers? OK, show us.

It's sink-or-swim, trial-by-fire, put-up-or-shut-up for these guys, and I'm fine with that.

If they can be what we hope they can be, now is the time.

This is all nice, but essentially fan-speak.  They've already made financial decisions semi-long term on Dahlin, Jokiharju, Mittelstadt, Thompson, and to a lesser degree Asplund.  None are killing their cap, but re-signing them sends a message they expect those players to fulfill those roles.  Nothing wrong with that.

The point is, the youth they've drafted are far away and there's little in Rochester to replace with.  Definitely not Adams' fault, but not good to enter the season under that situation either.

[Doohicksie]

20 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Vancouver radio right now talking about how they are looking at the Sabres lines and "its remarkable how bad that team will be."

Oh ye doubters.  Prepare to be amazed.

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

This is all nice, but essentially fan-speak.  They've already made financial decisions semi-long term on Dahlin, Jokiharju, Mittelstadt, Thompson, and to a lesser degree Asplund.  None are killing their cap, but re-signing them sends a message they expect those players to fulfill those roles.  Nothing wrong with that.

The point is, the youth they've drafted are far away and there's little in Rochester to replace with.  Definitely not Adams' fault, but not good to enter the season under that situation either.

Not sure what the bold means. The rest of that paragraph sounds like you and I agree.

Disagree with your second paragraph: Peterka, Samuelsson and Power will almost certainly finish this season as Sabres. Quinn and Johnson will probably get serious looks as well. UPL, Laaksonen and Murray are also possibilities.

[SabresVet]

14 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not sure what the bold means. The rest of that paragraph sounds like you and I agree.

Disagree with your second paragraph: Peterka, Samuelsson and Power will almost certainly finish this season as Sabres. Quinn and Johnson will probably get serious looks as well. UPL, Laaksonen and Murray are also possibilities.

The youth you're referring to will not be providing much help this season in all likelihood.  Banking on them to provide minutes and production in 2021-22 is wishful thinking.  They need development time and fast-marching them to the pros is not appropriate.  That's what has hindered development during previous GMs.

The whole point of this thread is discussion into whether this is a tank.  Adams isn't gonna tell us...but this roster is a lot hopes, what-if's, and someday's at this point. That's not enough in professional sports.  Nor does it (EDIT: definitively) represent a long term plan other than to clear the decks of veteran players they could off-load. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by SabresVet

[Digger]

36 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Vancouver radio right now talking about how they are looking at the Sabres lines and "its remarkable how bad that team will be."

That's not surprising.  Most of the Sabre fan base seems to agree.  No one expects a great year but there are quite a few that expect the Sabres to be better than last place this year.  I really don't know what to expect after the preseason.  Granato did not really play any line combination consistently.  Mittelstadt's line looks set I guess.  The power play is what concerns me the most as it has not looked good at all and considering how many goals are scored with the man advantage that will really determine our fate.  We will know more after the first 5-10 regular season games are played.

[Doohicksie]

16 minutes ago, Digger said:

The power play is what concerns me the most as it has not looked good at all and considering how many goals are scored with the man advantage that will really determine our fate.

I suspect that in Granato's plan he focused more on 5v5 than special teams.  So out of the gate the PP and PK will probably not look good.  I would reserve judgment until after the first month of the season is played.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Doohickie

[dudacek]

12 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

The youth you're referring to will not be providing much help this season in all likelihood.  Banking on them to provide minutes and production in 2021-22 is wishful thinking.  They need development time and fast-marching them to the pros is not appropriate.  That's what has hindered development during previous GMs.

The whole point of this thread is discussion into whether this is a tank.  Adams isn't gonna tell us...but this roster is a lot hopes, what-if's, and someday's at this point. That's not enough in professional sports.  Nor does it (EDIT: definitively) represent a long term plan other than to clear the decks of veteran players they could off-load. 

OK, so by far away you meant they aren’t making us good this season. Agreed.

I don’t think they are far away from the NHL though.

I think the point of most of our JAGs is to support but not block the group of kids that is ready for the NHL now while keeping a seat warm for the group that will be ready next season.

The primary purpose of this season is development, not winning.

I’ll leave it to you guys to decide whether or not that’s a tank.

[Taro T]

9 minutes ago, Digger said:

That's not surprising.  Most of the Sabre fan base seems to agree.  No one expects a great year but there are quite a few that expect the Sabres to be better than last place this year.  I really don't know what to expect after the preseason.  Granato did not really play any line combination consistently.  Mittelstadt's line looks set I guess.  The power play is what concerns me the most as it has not looked good at all and considering how many goals are scored with the man advantage that will really determine our fate.  We will know more after the first 5-10 regular season games are played.

If this year is going to be historically bad, expect we will know in the 1st 5-10 games.

But if the team is going to be merely bad, doubt we know just where they slot into until 20-25 games have been played.  The high energy, consistent pressure game that Granato is promoting is very difficult to sustain over 82 games.  That the roster is ridiculously young will help sustain it, but one can only do so much.

Heck, go back and look at the 1st couple of games of the Krueger era; except for not having forwards cheat up to over stress the north south game, they played exactly as Granato espouses & looked very good doing so.  But it wasn't sustainable.

Expect we won't fully know what we've got until sometime close to Thanksgiving.  When the rush of youthful exuberance meets up with the reality of an 82 game slog.

Having nearly all of February off will help w/ the stretch, but it would've been better to have January essentially off instead IMHO.

[Doohicksie]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think the point of most of our JAGs is to support but not block the group of kids that is ready for the NHL now while keeping a seat warm for the group that will be ready next season.

The primary purpose of this season is development, not winning.

Yep.  Hinostroza, Pysyk, all those guys.... they will be around as long as they are needed but will eventually be displaced as the current youth movement advances and the future youth movement in the A and the NCAA is ready for the NHL.

[Digger]

18 minutes ago, Taro T said:

If this year is going to be historically bad, expect we will know in the 1st 5-10 games.

But if the team is going to be merely bad, doubt we know just where they slot into until 20-25 games have been played.  The high energy, consistent pressure game that Granato is promoting is very difficult to sustain over 82 games.  That the roster is ridiculously young will help sustain it, but one can only do so much.

Heck, go back and look at the 1st couple of games of the Krueger era; except for not having forwards cheat up to over stress the north south game, they played exactly as Granato espouses & looked very good doing so.  But it wasn't sustainable.

Expect we won't fully know what we've got until sometime close to Thanksgiving.  When the rush of youthful exuberance meets up with the reality of an 82 game slog.

Having nearly all of February off will help w/ the stretch, but it would've been better to have January essentially off instead IMHO.

Yes I agree.  Sorry my comments meant that we will know a little bit more after the first few games (5-10) because the preseason did not shed much light for me. 

[LabattBlue]

50 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I suspect that in Granato's plan he focused more on 5v5 than special teams.  So out of the gate the PP and PK will probably not look good.  I would reserve judgment until after the first month of the season is played.

He is an NHL HC, and should have the team ready to go in all situations from Game 1 on.  That is why he has assistant coaches.  I smell the excuse generator cranking up already.

[Buffalonill]

It's gonna be a rough year i see a max 16 wins with this roster 

[Zamboni]

1 minute ago, Buffalonill said:

It's gonna be a rough year i see a max 16 wins with this roster 

I’ll take that bet

[Norcal]

No. They are doing a traditional rebuild from scratch. Ground up.

They want the guys here to play in all situations and I believe they like what they've seen in practice and feel like they are building team chemistry.

According to reports, the guys genuinely like each other and want to play together.

Players are staying late after practice, working on their games. 

The guys in the room understand that nobody is giving them a chance, let alone any respect.

This has bonded them and they are embracing that challenge head on. 

I think the team passed on players put on waivers because they weren't necessarily guys who "want to be here" (since they were waived and wouldn't have a choice if the Sabres claimed them)

but also because they like what they have and believe they are building an organic connection within the team. 

I'm not expecting immediate results in the win column but I am expecting a team that competes and gives max effort on every shift. 

Plenty of other teams have more skill and sometimes that skill will take over a game. 

For that reason I'd expect there might be a blow out or two early in the season. 

All things considered, when this season comes to a close, the team will have shown improvement and maybe surprised some teams and fans along the way. 

Lets GO Sabres!!!!!!!!

 

[LabattBlue]

2 minutes ago, Norcal said:

No. They are doing a traditional rebuild from scratch. Ground up.

They want the guys here to play in all situations and I believe they like what they've seen in practice and feel like they are building team chemistry.

According to reports, the guys genuinely like each other and want to play together.

Players are staying late after practice, working on their games. 

The guys in the room understand that nobody is giving them a chance, let alone any respect.

This has bonded them and they are embracing that challenge head on. 

I think the team passed on players put on waivers because they weren't necessarily guys who "want to be here" (since they were waived and wouldn't have a choice if the Sabres claimed them)

but also because they like what they have and believe they are building an organic connection within the team. 

I'm not expecting immediate results in the win column but I am expecting a team that competes and gives max effort on every shift. 

Plenty of other teams have more skill and sometimes that skill will take over a game. 

For that reason I'd expect there might be a blow out or two early in the season. 

All things considered, when this season comes to a close, the team will have shown improvement and maybe surprised some teams and fans along the way. 

Lets GO Sabres!!!!!!!!

 

I wish I shared your optimism, and maybe completely off base, but liking each other and trying hard only goes so far at the NHL level.  I see a bottom 3 team. 😞

[SabresVet]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

He is an NHL HC, and should have the team ready to go in all situations from Game 1 on.  That is why he has assistant coaches.  I smell the excuse generator cranking up already.

Anything to delay judging the work from this off-season.  Same thing happened with the Bills when they were really bad circa 2010.  Excuses consisted of having young players in a rebuild, a new coaching staff, new offensive/defensive schemes, and of course, a tough schedule. 

The quibbling put forward really gets outstanding the longer a rebuild keeps going on.   

[Norcal]

15 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I wish I shared your optimism, and maybe completely off base, but liking each other and trying hard only goes so far at the NHL level.  I see a bottom 3 team. 😞

Every team talks about chemistry and the guys loving each other and wanting to play FOR each other.

Every champion ever has said the same thing.

It's cliché but it's a real palpable thing. 

I acknowledged the talent difference and concede that it will cost them some games this season so bottom three is possible. 

A pesky, hard playing unit that shows up every night is all I really need at this point.