Do You Think The Sabres Top Brass Sees This As A “Tank” Season?

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

This team is set up to trade at the deadline all the 750K guys that might outperform and get attention.

And getting a 5th rounder if they do that.  

[Pimlach]

I think Ownership put the word out.  Cut costs everywhere  and rebuild slow.  
 

Front office response:   See goaltending and the $750k specials.  Don’t try to lose, but they all know a top 3 choice would help a lot. 

[RangerDave]

I really hope they are not tanking.

I know the two sports are different, but I liken what Adams is doing to what McBean did with the Bills.  They sold, traded, or cut the rotten core out of the team, even if they were highly paid high draft picks.  They weren't tanking.  They were just looking to start with decent players who have the right attitude and build up from there.  They did not bring in splashy free agents, just middling free agents who had the right skills and right attitude.  Then, they drafted well - wherever their picks were.

IF that is what Adams is doing, I support him 100%.  IF, on the other hand, he is trying to field a bad team in order to get a better draft pick, he is another in the long list of moronic managers of the recent Buffalo Sabres who think drafting XXX 18-year old kid is better than drafting YYY 18-year old kid and will make them a better team soon.

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

He wanted term. They didn’t want to give it to him.They offered him a lip service contract that they knew he would never sign. It’s pretty well documented.

I missed that. Link? 

[Buffalonill]

 

[Eleven]

A tank is on purpose.  This is not that.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Eleven

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

A tank is on purpose.  This is not that.

Last year was not a purposeful tank.  They signed Hall and Eakin and traded for Staal to improve the offense. 

This is a purposeful tank.  How else do you describe spending to the cap floor, bring in only 750K FAs including two goalies one who had a Gaa over 4 and one set to retire, plus the trade of two high paid vets including one who was a No 1 center for mostly futures, plus the acquisition of a D who can't play D.  This is the definition of a purposeful tank.

Edited October 11, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

A tank is on purpose.  This is not that.

Ya, I'm with GA, you'll have to explain why you think it's not on purpose. 

[miles]

I think no. I think they believe they are putting out a top quality team 

[Andrew Amerk]

26 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Ya, I'm with GA, you'll have to explain why you think it's not on purpose. 

It’s not a tank. They are rebuilding. 

What top goalies does everyone think would have signed here for a rebuilding team?

[LabattBlue]

Just now, Andrew Amerk said:

It’s not a tank. They are rebuilding. 

What top goalies does everyone think would have signed here for a rebuilding team?

There is also this thing good GM’s do…it’s called “making trades”. 

[Andrew Amerk]

2 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

There is also this thing good GM’s do…it’s called “making trades”. 

Why would a rebuilding team want to trade one of their prospects for a top goalie? Especially when they have 3 in the pipeline?

Unless you think some team wants Okposo or Eakin for a Korpisalo. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Andrew Amerk

[LabattBlue]

12 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Why would a rebuilding team want to trade one of their prospects for a top goalie? Especially when they have 3 in the pipeline?

Unless you think some team wants Okposo or Eakin for a Korpisalo. 

A top goalie?   I’d settle for a mediocre goalie.  Have you looked at who the Sabres are planning on going with between the pipes this season?

[Eleven]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Ya, I'm with GA, you'll have to explain why you think it's not on purpose. 

They didn't plan on EIchel pulling this *****, for one thing. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

They didn't plan on EIchel pulling this *****, for one thing. 

maybe not, but the rumblings about Eichel's dissatisfaction started a year back already. Sure, maybe it was all just rumours, but given how it's gone there was probably some fire causing that smoke and they knew the end was near. 

As for the goalies, yes, as mentioned, lots of trade options were available for decent goalies and some of them with substantial possible upsides. 

[nucci]

No, we just suck

[Archie Lee]

I think there is a difference between what the Sabres are doing and tanking. The Sabres have spent the past 6 years spending near to the cap with nothing to show for it.  The plan is clearly to avoid bad long-term contracts, and to develop and evaluate our own young players.  Our own young players can then be signed longer-term based on merit and fit.  I'm not saying they are going to get it right, but it is clearly the plan.  

It makes sense for such a plan to start with a year or two where you are spending close to the floor.  A by-product of this is that they will likely pick high in the draft, but that is not the same thing as deliberately being bad to try and get the top pick. There are several teams who have recently done and who currently are doing what the Sabres are doing. The Sabres are no more "tanking" than are Detroit and Ottawa and Anaheim.  

The most obvious recent indication they are not tanking is that they waived Dell over Tokarski.  I realize it sounds absurd to use they "kept Tokarski" as a sign they are not tanking. If they were tanking, though, it would make a lot more sense to run with Dell who has been terrible for over a year than to go with Tokarski, who has played well for about 3 years including his AHL time and who was excellent in exhibition.

I don't see any signs that Sabres management will be disappointed if the Sabres exceed expectations this year. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

21 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Tank? 

Why, Bob?

Why start this thread?

I am all for free speach and everyone has the right to voice their opionions, but this thread will be a disaster.

21 hours ago, Radar said:

I say no. Results may be the same as tanking but, to me, tanking means trying to lose. I don't think they're intent is losing. It's to rebuild and develop.

This is the correct answer.  Very well said.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

20 hours ago, nfreeman said:

As I've said previously, KA's choices for goalie IMHO make it impossible to avoid the conclusion that he has set up the team to lose a ton of games this season for purposes of drafting high next summer.

With respect, I have made the arguement that the goalie moves mirror what KA has said all along and match his moves on other position players.  That he would not sign anyone that would possibly impead the growth and developement of the youth.

[nucci]

12 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

With respect, I have made the arguement that the goalie moves mirror what KA has said all along and match his moves on other position players.  That he would not sign anyone that would possibly impead the growth and developement of the youth.

but sometimes signing some good vets help with development. We are expecting Mitts and cozens to log big minutes against some top players. They may not be ready for this.

[Believer]

11 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

A top goalie?   I’d settle for a mediocre goalie.  Have you looked at who the Sabres are planning on going with between the pipes this season?

Tokarski is not elite… but Tokarski is a gamer… He will win plenty of games…

[bob_sauve28]

25 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Why, Bob?

Why start this thread?

I am all for free speach and everyone has the right to voice their opionions, but this thread will be a disaster.

This is the correct answer.  Very well said.

Lol, well, let it be done! 

I'm not religious, but I am in a spiritual mood today, so...

 

[Brad_MI]

I think “Not Tanking”…

”Tanking” implies purposefully having a bad team, to lose on purpose, to get a high draft pick. 

I think the Sabres are just in a position that to improve the team to a level beyond “Bottom 3(ish) in the NHL bad” would take such a huge amount of trade capital and (likely bad) free agent contracts to get it done, that it would negatively affect the franchise for the long term future. 

Obviously, you could;

Trade Jack quickly for cheap, maybe for a Middle 6 and a Mid Level Starting Goalie (I know, cap has to work, other team has to accept medical conditions, etc, this is just hypothetical)

Trade Draft Picks for Middle 6 forward and/or a Second Pair Defenseman

Sign a few free agents to fill out the roster - Probably taking on a few contracts that will be terrible in two years

Etc, etc.

….and does that team compete for playoffs?

I think No… so, why mortgage the future by trading draft picks and signing bad contracts? Just limit the damage to hopefully this year and not significantly beyond it, coincidentally get a high draft pick for 2022, and hope your young players continue to positively develop instead of crater because of the losing

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, Brad_MI said:

I think “Not Tanking”…

”Tanking” implies purposefully having a bad team, to lose on purpose, to get a high draft pick. 

I think the Sabres are just in a position that to improve the team to a level beyond “Bottom 3(ish) in the NHL bad” would take such a huge amount of trade capital and (likely bad) free agent contracts to get it done, that it would negatively affect the franchise for the long term future. 

Obviously, you could;

Trade Jack quickly for cheap, maybe for a Middle 6 and a Mid Level Starting Goalie (I know, cap has to work, other team has to accept medical conditions, etc, this is just hypothetical)

Trade Draft Picks for Middle 6 forward and/or a Second Pair Defenseman

Sign a few free agents to fill out the roster - Probably taking on a few contracts that will be terrible in two years

Etc, etc.

….and does that team compete for playoffs?

I think No… so, why mortgage the future by trading draft picks and signing bad contracts? Just limit the damage to hopefully this year and not significantly beyond it, coincidentally get a high draft pick for 2022, and hope your young players continue to positively develop instead of crater because of the losing

Why are you starting from the lineup post-draft?  If they start with what they had prior to that & get Eichel healthy, keep Reinhart & Ristolainen, make a legit offer to Ullmark, replace McCabe (because he was heading to Chicago regardless, happy wife, happy life), sign Danault, add another Ullmark level (or better goalie), and ideally get 1 more veteran D-man & that team could very well make the playoffs.

Yes, the prior year's team finished dead last, but they never had a healthy Eichel from day 1, Ullmark missed ~1/2 the season, & Hall quit when Jack was shelved.  So, that team's record was a lot worse than what it should've been on paper.

None of those moves suggested above would've necessitated a "mortgaging of the future." At some point, they have to stop "mortgaging the present."

[GoPuckYourself]

I don't see Steve Ott as our captain. We're trying this again with a young core which GMKA will build in his vision. Cozens, UPL, Middlestadt, Dahlin, Power, Quinn is not a terrible start. There will also be guys who will surprise and get a chance on our roster but I don't think this organization wants to lose anymore for a player/players.

Edited October 11, 2021 by GoPuckYourself