Dreger: Eichel situation may be shifting, multiple teams involved

[Radar]

  On 10/7/2021 at 2:42 PM, Doohickie said:

When I used language like that, I got warning points for abusive behavior.  Just sayin'.

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Me also. Used those exact words.

[dudacek]

  On 10/7/2021 at 10:26 PM, K-9 said:

No deal. Brisson said it himself, Eichel is a depleted asset at the moment. There is plenty of time for his value to be reestablished and that’s when you should sell.

If there’s even one iota of doubt that Eichel will regain his elite form, then what the hell are we talking about? 

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How do you re-establish value without one side giving in on the surgery?

Do you think that side we eventually be Jack?

[Hoss]

  On 10/7/2021 at 10:35 PM, Brawndo said:

LeBrun was on Insider Trading, mentioned that the Sabres are now willing to put conditions on certain parts of the trade to facilitate one happening 

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He also mentioned that releasing medicals didn’t happen until the last 10 days or so. So Adams really was getting in the way of a deal. Oof. https://www.tsn.ca/video/~2296704

[tom webster]

  On 10/8/2021 at 12:08 AM, Hoss said:

He also mentioned that releasing medicals didn’t happen until the last 10 days or so. So Adams really was getting in the way of a deal. Oof. https://www.tsn.ca/video/~2296704

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Or Lebrun is wrong, or there was never an offer close enough to justify releasing medicals or Eichel’s previous counsel wouldn’t allow it or…….. 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by tom webster

[klos1963]

  On 10/8/2021 at 12:08 AM, Hoss said:

He also mentioned that releasing medicals didn’t happen until the last 10 days or so. So Adams really was getting in the way of a deal. Oof. https://www.tsn.ca/video/~2296704

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I'll never understand how he thought a deal could get done without releasing medical records.

[Jävə Keith]

  On 10/7/2021 at 11:26 PM, mjd1001 said:

Not really. Here is the reality....if no one is/was willing to pay his asking price, the his price was too high.  Many times an Asset is not worth what you THINK it should be worth, but it is worth what someone is willing to pay.  Remember, you aren't selling to just one team, you have the entire league to sell to, and probably 4-6 teams that are seriously interested in what you are selling. If you have 4-6 teams that want your asset, but no one is willing to pay the price, then your price is too high.

It isn't a matter of him 'wilting'.  If you want him to get his price and ONLY his price, then he is wilting....but 'fair value' is what someone is willing to pay.

Its like selling a car/truck. My friend put a lot of money into his truck a few years ago. He wanted to sell it a couple years later. he was SURE it was worth $25,000. But after a full year no one was willing to pay his price. His truck sold a year later when he was willing to accept $18,000.  He didn't 'wilt', he simply ended up lowering his asking price because a LONG time went by with no-one willing to meet his original price.

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Yep. It's called Free Market Economics and is what makes this great country work.

[Huckleberry]

All I know is, if Eichel gets us less than Duchene than I will be freaking pissed of.

[thewookie1]

  On 10/7/2021 at 9:17 PM, dudacek said:

So I am reading this is as you concluding the best acceptable plan for the Sabres is to secretly encourage Jack to get the surgery he wants, on the condition he knows he won’t get paid until he heals, then return to the bargaining table in the new year and see what you can get for a healthy Jack.

Do you think Jack will go for that?

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I said with pay, not without pay

[Andrew Amerk]

  On 10/8/2021 at 12:15 AM, klos1963 said:

I'll never understand how he thought a deal could get done without releasing medical records.

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KA might not have been allowed to do that without John’s permission. It sounds like John has decided to share them himself now?

I still don’t understand what other teams would need to see. It’s been public for a long time now what’s wrong with John, and what the available options for treatment are. Do they expect to see some shocking new detail in an X-Ray that multiple medical experts missed?

I doubt medical records are the reason John hasn’t been traded, it’s the fact that he hasn’t gotten fixed. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Andrew Amerk

[dudacek]

  On 10/8/2021 at 12:26 AM, thewookie1 said:

I said with pay, not without pay

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Sorry I misread.

So you think the Sabres have been wrong to dig in against ADR?

[Taro T]

  On 10/8/2021 at 12:15 AM, klos1963 said:

I'll never understand how he thought a deal could get done without releasing medical records.

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Doubt a team "kicking the tires" on Eichel would only be concerned with the neck.  Is it in the Sabres best interest (should all the stars align & they never get an offer worth trading him) or Eichel's best interest to have 20 or so teams know exactly what injuries he's played through & couldn't play through?  Teams have NEVER targeted a star player's weaknesses/injuries in the past.  Certainly nobody would use that info nefariously.  (Where's the rolleyes smiley when you need it.) 

Until somebody came up with an offer (even conditional) that might be acceptable to Adams, how does it make sense to turn over the records?

Absolutely, once somebody is serious, let them see the records.  Heck, let them have their own doctors examine him.

 

[K-9]

  On 10/8/2021 at 12:03 AM, dudacek said:

How do you re-establish value without one side giving in on the surgery?

Do you think that side we eventually be Jack?

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Well, in order to fit Brisson’s timeline of the Olympics then yeah, ADR is the only way to go according to the medical experts.  
 

If willing trade partners are willing to put faith in a positive outcome, then KA should, too, and there is no reason for Eichel to be sold at less than full value to those teams. It makes no sense to me for a team to say we will give you 80% of what you’re asking because we think Eichel will only return to 80% of his former self. Nope, teams are trading for a full Eichel and the Sabres should deal based on that premise. Just my opinion. 

[K-9]

  On 10/8/2021 at 12:20 AM, Jävə Keith said:

Yep. It's called Free Market Economics and is what makes this great country work.

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It’s what makes communist China and socialist Europe work as well. 

[dudacek]

Interesting element of the Brisson interview was how much pressure he is feeling to get this done now.

 

[klos1963]

  On 10/8/2021 at 12:48 AM, Andrew Amerk said:

KA might not have been allowed to do that without John’s permission. It sounds like John has decided to share them himself now?

I still don’t understand what other teams would need to see. It’s been public for a long time now what’s wrong with John, and what the available options for treatment are. Do they expect to see some shocking new detail in an X-Ray that multiple medical experts missed?

I doubt medical records are the reason John hasn’t been traded, it’s the fact that he hasn’t gotten fixed. 

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We're talking about Jack , sorry if you are too confused to understand.

If Jack wants out so bad, it makes no sense that he wouldn't allow his medical records available.  You really don't understand what teams would need to see, they should just take what the read in the press and react to that? 

It's impossible to take you seriously when you call Jack, John, but then to think that a team could just rely on public comments to understand exactly what is medically wrong and what may need to be done surgically and the long term prognosis makes me think that you don't expect to be taken seriously.

[K-9]

  On 10/8/2021 at 1:12 AM, dudacek said:

Interesting element of the Brisson interview was how much pressure he is feeling to get this done now.

 

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That pressure has to be coming from only one direction, right?

[dudacek]

This interview was the best interview on the Eichel situation we’ve heard, maybe since this situation started.

https://podcast.sportsnet.ca/hockey-central/reactions-to-carey-prices-announcement/

Brisson starts around 45 minutes in.

[klos1963]

  On 10/8/2021 at 1:06 AM, Taro T said:

Doubt a team "kicking the tires" on Eichel would only be concerned with the neck.  Is it in the Sabres best interest (should all the stars align & they never get an offer worth trading him) or Eichel's best interest to have 20 or so teams know exactly what injuries he's played through & couldn't play through?  Teams have NEVER targeted a star player's weaknesses/injuries in the past.  Certainly nobody would use that info nefariously.  (Where's the rolleyes smiley when you need it.) 

Until somebody came up with an offer (even conditional) that might be acceptable to Adams, how does it make sense to turn over the records?

Absolutely, once somebody is serious, let them see the records.  Heck, let them have their own doctors examine him.

 

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I understand your point, but it just doesn't seem practical to me. Are teams really just 'kicking the tires' on Jack just to see medical records? We all know he has a disc issue, the medical records are for more indepth understanding of the problem and to help make a decision on surgery options and prognosis.

This isn't a spy game, it's acknowledged that he needs surgery, teams need to see those records.

To expect to get an offer for what KA has been rumored to ask for, the team needs to know what they are getting in return.

[Andrew Amerk]

  On 10/8/2021 at 1:13 AM, klos1963 said:

We're talking about Jack , sorry if you are too confused to understand.

If Jack wants out so bad, it makes no sense that he wouldn't allow his medical records available.  You really don't understand what teams would need to see, they should just take what the read in the press and react to that? 

It's impossible to take you seriously when you call Jack, John, but then to think that a team could just rely on public comments to understand exactly what is medically wrong and what may need to be done surgically and the long term prognosis makes me think that you don't expect to be taken seriously.

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His real name is John, not Jack. Sorry if you are too confused to understand that. Maybe he is Jack to you, if you personally know him. 

If you personally know him, then you can speculate on why he would or wouldn’t allow the Sabres to share his medical records, until he decided to share them himself. 

[K-9]

  On 10/8/2021 at 1:21 AM, Andrew Amerk said:

His real name is John, not Jack. Sorry if you are too confused to understand that. Maybe he is Jack to you, if you personally know him. 

If you personally know him, then you can speculate on why he would or wouldn’t allow the Sabres to share his medical records, until he decided to share them himself. 

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[Andrew Amerk]

  On 10/8/2021 at 1:29 AM, K-9 said:

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Have you ever held a huge pen?

[Digger]

  On 10/8/2021 at 1:17 AM, dudacek said:

This interview was the best interview on the Eichel situation we’ve heard, maybe since this situation started.

https://podcast.sportsnet.ca/hockey-central/reactions-to-carey-prices-announcement/

Brisson starts around 45 minutes in.

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Yes I agree it's a good interview.  They want the ADR and "every day that goes by" is a day that is lost and they want this resolved as quickly as possible. The only thing that surprised me was that he actually called Jack Eichel a "depleted asset" but I suppose that's around trying to get the Sabres to reduce their ask and expectations in a trade.  He did say many times that we are working together with Kevin Adams and the Sabres, even mentioned meeting with Mr. Pegula.

[K-9]

  On 10/8/2021 at 1:37 AM, Andrew Amerk said:

Have you ever held a huge pen?

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Only my own.😂

[SwampD]

This is actually kinda funny.

[MattPie]

  On 10/7/2021 at 9:09 PM, Dr. Who said:

Assume what is probable: the Sabres are likely to get a top three pick. Add a player who is a true 1C prospect to a decent pool of young prospects, I don't see 5 years out as necessary. I'm thinking 3 years to a team worth watching, and they better be entertaining by year 2. All that said, getting a reasonable return on Eichel obviously greatly increases the chances of success, so I would agree any option that involves settling for less than ROR is pretty much worthless. It would also perpetuate the well-earned reputation that the Sabres' FO is the dupe for the rest of the league.

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ROR: was a healthy 1C on many teams, terrible return. Eichel: injured 1C on most teams, anyone thinking another team will trade the same as a healthy Eichel is dreaming.

  On 10/8/2021 at 1:06 AM, K-9 said:

Well, in order to fit Brisson’s timeline of the Olympics then yeah, ADR is the only way to go according to the medical experts.  
 

If willing trade partners are willing to put faith in a positive outcome, then KA should, too, and there is no reason for Eichel to be sold at less than full value to those teams. It makes no sense to me for a team to say we will give you 80% of what you’re asking because we think Eichel will only return to 80% of his former self. Nope, teams are trading for a full Eichel and the Sabres should deal based on that premise. Just my opinion. 

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I seriously doubt any team is to pay full value (as defined as a healthy Jack). There's risk to trading for Eichel because he may not come back to 100% (or at all); that's going to downgrade his price. The only way Jack draws full price is if he heals up (one way or another) and proves he's 100%. Otherwise it'd be incredibly dumb for a GM to bet the farm on him.