Dreger: Eichel situation may be shifting, multiple teams involved

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

These two events are not related.  The Sabres have moved on.  The team is being built with the assets available.  And because the team has moved on, there's no reason to hurry the trade.  This season is a "development" (the cynic would say tank) season for the young core.  They're not expecting to be competitive, so just like we don't have a very good goalie situation right now as kind of cost saving measure while we develop the young core, we don't need the return from Jack's trade.... yet.  But that doesn't relieve KA from the responsibility to get the best possible return from the trade.

Again, this is an argument I've made before, however the sands seems to be shifting against patience and more toward a near term resolution.  My point is that if this gets resolved sooner then later resign yourself to the bag of magic beans return.   

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

One significant note on any deal involving Jack; the Sabres currently sit a cap for 63.322 with Jack's salary.  

Any deal involving Jack must return or keep approx 6.9 mill in cap.  For example the Sabres might take back a $2 mill player and retain 50% of Jack's salary for this season.  The Rags actually have approx 9.7 in cap space.  

If you retain for this season, you retain for the whole contract.  You can't retain for just a limited amount of time.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

If you retain for this season, you retain for the whole contract.  You can't retain for just a limited amount of time.

see above.

[Doohicksie]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

Again, this is an argument I've made before, however the sands seems to be shifting against patience and more toward a near term resolution.  My point is that if this gets resolved sooner then later resign yourself to the bag of magic beans return.   

With my remark about already having moved on, the way I look at it is Jack is dead to the Sabres, so anything, even a bag of magic beans that comes back, is a bonus.  At this point KA is playing with house money wrt the Eichel trade.  I'm okay with a bag of magic beans now.  But if he can get anything more than that, it's a bonus.

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

see above.

above.... where?

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Another thing that could have changed the calculus and a more likely thing is TP/KP told KJA to get him out of here at any price.

I hope that isn't the case, as it would demonstrate that the Pegulas are still meddling.  My sense is that KA has managed to keep them at bay while he does his rebuild.  If they're interfering with that, it would be a bad sign.

[PromoTheRobot]

Question: Outside of an Eichel trade, could the Sabres take on some bad contracts in exchange for assets? Do we have the cap space?

Edited October 7, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

2 hours ago, rakish said:

I think you saw the Toronto (once Vancouver) defenseman being waived.

 

1 hour ago, rakish said:

There's no truth to this at all, you idiot.

 

5 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

When I used language like that, I got warning points for abusive behavior.  Just sayin'.

I think we should be allowed to insult ourselves, it looks like that what Rakish was doing.

I'll go next: SHAAAAUGHT!!!, you are a such a sexy opinionated moron.  You should be ashamed of yourself.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

With my remark about already having moved on, the way I look at it is Jack is dead to the Sabres, so anything, even a bag of magic beans that comes back, is a bonus.  At this point KA is playing with house money wrt the Eichel trade.  I'm okay with a bag of magic beans now.  But if he can get anything more than that, it's a bonus.

This will be the 4th season since we traded ROR.  The magic beans from the trade Thomspon and Johnson have yet to bare any fruit. Johnson isn't even a pro hockey player yet.  Thompson has yet to establish himself as a full time NHL player.   Getting more beans for Jack really won't help for 3-4 years.  

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Question: Outside of an Eichel trade, could the Sabres take on some bad contracts in exchange for assets? Do we have the cap space?

Yes.  They have, per Puckapedia, ~$18MM in cap space.  They're barely over the floor WITH Eichel.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Question: Outside of an Eichel trade, could the Sabres take on some bad contracts in exchange for assets? Do we have the cap space?

Sure 18 mill right now.  However taking on bad contracts or injured players to acquire more draft picks or prospects means spending actual $ that TP/KP aren't willing to spend.

7 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

With my remark about already having moved on, the way I look at it is Jack is dead to the Sabres, so anything, even a bag of magic beans that comes back, is a bonus.  At this point KA is playing with house money wrt the Eichel trade.  I'm okay with a bag of magic beans now.  But if he can get anything more than that, it's a bonus.

above.... where?

Taro and I already discussed salary retention.

Edited October 7, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Digger]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This will be the 4th season since we traded ROR.  The magic beans from the trade Thomspon and Johnson have yet to bare any fruit. Johnson isn't even a pro hockey player yet.  Thompson has yet to establish himself as a full time NHL player.   Getting more beans for Jack really won't help for 3-4 years.  

Yes I absolutely agree except at this point I think we may be ready to say that the return for ROR was just beans.........no magic.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I've said from the beginning the Sabres shouldn't entertain a trade until they prove he is healthy to max value.  However it's becoming clear that that train has likely left the station if the trade rumors floating around the last few days are true.  If they are, then resign yourself to the bag of magic beans.

One thing that may have changed KA's calculus is the Rags offered Georgiev as part of the deal.  Given our goaltending situation that would be a huge incentive to get a deal done now.  This is speculation (wishful thinking) on my part, but this is where the Rags can trade from strength and might move the needle enough to get KA to deal.

Another thing that could have changed the calculus and a more likely thing is TP/KP told KJA to get him out of here at any price.

 

The Pegulas MAY be pushing to get Eichel out the door, but that's not been my impression.  Adams seems to be the driver of moving in that direction.  Also, with Eichel out on the same injury as last year the Pegulas are out of pocket significantly less to have him sit than they are to have Skinner play.  (With nearly identical results. 😉 )

Especially the way the O'Reilly deal blew up in their faces in order to save some cash, can't see them pushing for just any deal.  It has to at least not be embarrassingly bad, and they probably still want actual healthy Eichel value coming back.  My 2 cents.

 

[inkman]

11 minutes ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

 

 

I think we should be allowed to insult ourselves, it looks like that what Rakish was doing.

I'll go next: SHAAAAUGHT!!!, you are a such a sexy opinionated moron.  You should be ashamed of yourself.

Give yourself some cred. Your handle, screen name, avatar or whatever the kids are calling these fake names we go by is among Sabrespace’s coolest. 😎

[nfreeman]

I don't think any of the key facts has changed, and I don't expect a trade anytime soon.

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I don't think any of the key facts has changed, and I don't expect a trade anytime soon.

Agreed.

The only thing that has changed is that some GMs are looking at the reality of their season-opening rosters.

And they're asking themselves one last time if a Jack trade is the boost they'll need.

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Sure 18 mill right now.  However taking on bad contracts or injured players to acquire more draft picks or prospects means spending actual $ that TP/KP aren't willing to spend.

Taro and I already discussed salary retention.

What gives you the impression that the Pegulas are still in absolute no spending mode?  They've added to the scouting staff.  If a $2-3MM cap hit came with a 2nd round pick or a well regarded prospect, they might go for it.

Adams seems to be trying to follow Regier's "suffering" plan without the fanfare.  That plan was to get REALLY high draft picks & as many prospects/ picks as was possible and then in 2 years have a very young highly skilled team.  Whether that can work with almost no quality vets and whether it will have been worth wasting 2 MORE seasons remains debatable (and doubtful IMHO).  But the fact that payroll fell through the floor was a side benefit and not the driver.

[GASabresIUFAN]

33 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

The Pegulas MAY be pushing to get Eichel out the door, but that's not been my impression.  Adams seems to be the driver of moving in that direction.  Also, with Eichel out on the same injury as last year the Pegulas are out of pocket significantly less to have him sit than they are to have Skinner play.  (With nearly identical results. 😉 )

Especially the way the O'Reilly deal blew up in their faces in order to save some cash, can't see them pushing for just any deal.  It has to at least not be embarrassingly bad, and they probably still want actual healthy Eichel value coming back.  My 2 cents.

 

 

26 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I don't think any of the key facts has changed, and I don't expect a trade anytime soon.

I hope your right Taro, but there is a significant event coming.  What do the Sabres do with Jack on Monday?  IR or suspension.  If suspended for off-ice issues, like a failed drug test or in this case not following the prescribed medical treatment, Jack loses his $ and the Sabres lose the cap hit.  Suspending him would put the Sabres $7 mill under the cap floor.  Jack also wants to get paid while this is resolved.  There is now incentive on both sides to get this resolved by Monday.  I think this is impetus for the recent rumors.  

Of course the Sabres could just place him on IR and wait it out.  That's what I would do. That's what you would do, but do you trust KA and the Pegulas to be rational and make good decisions.  I don't.

Edited October 7, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Mustache of God]

17 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

The Pegulas MAY be pushing to get Eichel out the door, but that's not been my impression.  Adams seems to be the driver of moving in that direction.  Also, with Eichel out on the same injury as last year the Pegulas are out of pocket significantly less to have him sit than they are to have Skinner play.  (With nearly identical results. 😉 )

Especially the way the O'Reilly deal blew up in their faces in order to save some cash, can't see them pushing for just any deal.  It has to at least not be embarrassingly bad, and they probably still want actual healthy Eichel value coming back.  My 2 cents.

 

The bolded is a point that I've never really considered until now. They forced that trade to save a $7 million dollar bonus to ROR - and that trade dismantled the rebuild and is one of primary reasons of the current state of the team, which will be costing them hundreds of millions long term in lost ticket, concession and merchandising revenue. 

Cheap billionaire ***** sticks.

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

I hope your right Taro, but there is a significant even coming.  What do the Sabres do with Jack on Monday?  IR or suspension.  If suspended for off-ice issues, like a failed drug test or in this case not following the prescribed medical treatment, Jack loses his $ and the Sabres lose the cap hit.  Suspending him would put the Sabres $7 mill under the cap floor.  Jack also wants to get paid while this is resolved.  There is now incentive on both sides to get this resolved by Monday.  I think this is impetus for the recent rumors.  

Of course the Sabres could just place him on IR and wait it out.  That's what I would do. That's what you would do, but do you trust KA and the Pegulas to be rationale and make good decisions.  I don't.

Almost definitely he goes to IR.  Not sure of the mechanics of a suspension wrt the salary cap.  Haven't looked closely at that aspect of the cap as really didn't expect to see it relevant.  (Surprise, surprise.)

Unfortunately, don't have time to look into it until after the decision will have been enacted at which point it becomes moot as we'll already see the decision & their results. 

Edit: And Adams is definitely rational.  He isn't always correct, but there is a logic to his moves.  (Far too often the moves end up incorrect.  But that's a different issue.)

Edited October 7, 2021 by Taro T

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

What gives you the impression that the Pegulas are still in absolute no spending mode?  They've added to the scouting staff.  If a $2-3MM cap hit came with a 2nd round pick or a well regarded prospect, they might go for it.

Adams seems to be trying to follow Regier's "suffering" plan without the fanfare.  That plan was to get REALLY high draft picks & as many prospects/ picks as was possible and then in 2 years have a very young highly skilled team.  Whether that can work with almost no quality vets and whether it will have been worth wasting 2 MORE seasons remains debatable (and doubtful IMHO).  But the fact that payroll fell through the floor was a side benefit and not the driver.

I don't know.  Maybe the trades of every marketable high $ player in the off-season, spending only to the cap floor, not spending any money to replace Ullmark, spending only 750K on each FA.  

Also no one is giving us a 2nd rd pick to take a $3 mill cap hit.  We got a 5th for Butcher and he's costing us 2.8. 

[nfreeman]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Agreed.

The only thing that has changed is that some GMs are looking at the reality of their season-opening rosters.

And they're asking themselves one last time if a Jack trade is the boost they'll need.

Maybe, but given surgery/rehab time, it's at least 50/50 that Jack provides zero help to anyone on the ice this season.

However, I can certainly see a GM thinking that a Jack trade will buy him time, since the team probably won't see the fruits of the trade until next season.

 

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

I hope your right Taro, but there is a significant even coming.  What do the Sabres do with Jack on Monday?  IR or suspension.  If suspended for off-ice issues, like a failed drug test or in this case not following the prescribed medical treatment, Jack loses his $ and the Sabres lose the cap hit.  Suspending him would put the Sabres $7 mill under the cap floor.  Jack also wants to get paid while this is resolved.  There is now incentive on both sides to get this resolved by Monday.  I think this is impetus for the recent rumors.  

Of course the Sabres could just place him on IR and wait it out.  That's what I would do. That's what you would do, but do you trust KA and the Pegulas to be rational and make good decisions.  I don't.

I think they'll probably put him on IR, but I don't think in any case that the cap floor will drive their decisions.  They can always trade for someone else's bad contract if needed to reach the floor.

[Doohicksie]

43 minutes ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

 

 

I think we should be allowed to insult ourselves, it looks like that what Rakish was doing.

I'll go next: SHAAAAUGHT!!!, you are a such a sexy opinionated moron.  You should be ashamed of yourself.

OMG totally missed that!  Hahaha

42 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This will be the 4th season since we traded ROR.  The magic beans from the trade Thomspon and Johnson have yet to bare any fruit. Johnson isn't even a pro hockey player yet.  Thompson has yet to establish himself as a full time NHL player.   Getting more beans for Jack really won't help for 3-4 years.  

Right.  Which is why I said there's no urgency to trade Jack from Adams' perspective.  I think we're kind of saying the same thing, but just just differently enough to argue about it  😛

[Doohicksie]

36 minutes ago, Digger said:

Yes I absolutely agree except at this point I think we may be ready to say that the return for ROR was just beans.........no magic.

When Tage puts up 30 goals as 1C this year you'll change your tune.

 

 

 

 

 

(e5)

[Doohicksie]

20 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

do you trust KA and the Pegulas to be rational and make good decisions.  I don't.

Adams?  Yes.  Pegulas?  No.

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Edit: And Adams is definitely rational.  He isn't always correct, but there is a logic to his moves.  (Far too often the moves end up incorrect.  But that's a different issue.)

This.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Doohickie said:

Adams?  Yes.  Pegulas?  No.

You expect Adams to make good decisions.  Wow interesting.  Like Dell? 🤪