Dahlin Would Be an Elite Forward...

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

ZOMG!!! UPL is struggling playing goalie.

maybe Sabres should switch him to third line defenseman.

 

 

😂

*checks defensive depth chart*
 

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

I’m talking about players in general.

But some players click a different ages forwards and  Defenseman i would rather JJ  Soak up a winning atmosphere and develop a friendships and go to world jrs

[tom webster]

26 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

But some players click a different ages forwards and  Defenseman i would rather JJ  Soak up a winning atmosphere and develop a friendships and go to world jrs

I agree that some click at different ages just don’t think it has anything to do with when you start playing them in the NHL.

[mudberry]

Not sure how often this has been tried with offensive defensemen but I think at this level he needs to stick with what got him into the NHL. I think Bowman tried this with Housley, and not sure how bad it worked, but needless to say, he went back to defense. Housley played offense in High School, but has Dahlin ever played that position?

[drnkirishone]

you don't switch players from defense to forward or vise versa. The overwhelming percentage fail to be impactful.

[Weave]

5 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Maybe OP is on to something.  UPL has been struggling.  The way he lets pucks get by him, he would make an elite powerplay screening forward.  Probably better than Vanek.

Underappreciated or unnoticed snark here.

My sigh was because this kid is starting his 4th season now and he's still making enough gaffs that this supposed Lidstrom in the wings (see what I did there) is getting conversation about moving him to F because his D just isn't coming along.

We're on savior #2 here that can't seem to live up to billing.  Yeah, I know, spare me the he's young stuff.  This is his 4th season.  He HAS to show progress on his overall game.

 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

Underappreciated or unnoticed snark here.

My sigh was because this kid is starting his 4th season now and he's still making enough gaffs that this supposed Lidstrom in the wings (see what I did there) is getting conversation about moving him to F because his D just isn't coming along.

We're on savior #2 here that can't seem to live up to billing.  Yeah, I know, spare me the he's young stuff.  This is his 4th season.  He HAS to show progress on his overall game.

 

 

Take him away from ####ing Jokiharju.  They'll BOTH be better.

They have nearly identical strengths & weaknesses, though most of Dahlin's strengths are much better.

[JoeSchmoe]

45 minutes ago, mudberry said:

Not sure how often this has been tried with offensive defensemen but I think at this level he needs to stick with what got him into the NHL.

I don't know if Dahlin has ever played DEFENSE at any level. He's just a forward skil that plays back.

Unlike guys like Hedman with incredible size and strength, I see nothing about Dahlin's game that says defenseman. His game is all about his elite edgework, which is wasted playing on the blueline or in front of his own net.

[IKnowPhysics]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

Underappreciated or unnoticed snark here.

My sigh was because this kid is starting his 4th season now and he's still making enough gaffs that this supposed Lidstrom in the wings (see what I did there) is getting conversation about moving him to F because his D just isn't coming along.

We're on savior #2 here that can't seem to live up to billing.  Yeah, I know, spare me the he's young stuff.  This is his 4th season.  He HAS to show progress on his overall game.

Oh, I definitely misinterpreted your sigh, then, because I initially thought it flatly mirrored my own fatigue with the inanity of OP's suggestion to move one of the league's best point-getting defensemen to forward.  To which I followed with parodic sass.

If it makes you feel any better, Dahlin ranks 20th among all defensemen since 2018-19 in points with 107P in 197GP (same as Karlsson), and that's with the absolute derth of team goal scoring during the Krueger drought.  Dahlin got back on that track with 11P in 21GP after the streak ended under Granato, compared to the 12P in 35GP previous under Krueger and in the practice-less losing streak.

Dahlin's on his way, and not really doing any worse than his comparables.  Keep in mind Dahlin also has had shortened seasons.  FWIW, Lidstrom was 18th in the league in points among defensemen over approximately the same number of beginning games.  Hedman was 70th.

[Weave]

10 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Oh, I definitely misinterpreted your sigh, then, because I initially thought it flatly mirrored my own fatigue with the inanity of OP's suggestion to move one of the league's best point-getting defensemen to forward.  To which I followed with parodic sass.

If it makes you feel any better, Dahlin ranks 20th among all defensemen since 2018-19 in points with 107P in 197GP (same as Karlsson), and that's with the absolute derth of team goal scoring during the Krueger drought.  Dahlin got back on that track with 11P in 21GP after the streak ended under Granato, compared to the 12P in 35GP previous under Krueger and in the practice-less losing streak.

Dahlin's on his way, and not really doing any worse than his comparables.  Keep in mind Dahlin also has had shortened seasons.  FWIW, Lidstrom was 18th in the league in points among defensemen over approximately the same number of beginning games.  Hedman was 70th.

Where were they at their 4th season in their own end?  We didn't finish last for Phill Housley.

[IKnowPhysics]

After four years, Lidstrom at 15th and Hedman 59th.  For Dahlin to move up to 15th-ish over his first four seasons, he'd likely have to record something like a 58 point season.

 

Team GF/GP and GA/GP over the respective first three seasons:

Lidstrom 1st, 10th

Hedman 9th, 27th

Dahlin 26th, 27th

In other words, Dahlin is point tracking just fine to his comparables despite doing so on a dreadfully worse offensive team over these years.  He'll be fine.

[Andrew Amerk]

8 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

After four years, Lidstrom at 15th and Hedman 59th.  For Dahlin to move up to 15th-ish over his first four seasons, he'd likely have to record something like a 58 point season.

 

Team GF/GP and GA/GP over the respective first three seasons:

Lidstrom 1st, 10th

Hedman 9th, 27th

Dahlin 26th, 27th

In other words, Dahlin is point tracking just fine to his comparables despite doing so on a dreadfully worse offensive team over these years.  He'll be fine.

Thank you for this. 

I know Sabres fans like to panic, especially after 15 years of misery, and hate hearing it - but he’s what? 21 years old?

What were you doing at 21? How was his comparable Lidstrom doing at 21? Relax people. 

[Weave]

12 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Thank you for this. 

I know Sabres fans like to panic, especially after 15 years of misery, and hate hearing it - but he’s what? 21 years old?

What were you doing at 21? How was his comparable Lidstrom doing at 21? Relax people. 

Lids already had all star and Norris votes in year 4.  Noone is worried about Raz's points.  Raz puts up offense but can't play reliably in his own zone.

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well we totally cocked up his development didn't we? Threw the kid into a top role way too soon due to our crap D and his offensive skills, but we didn't work on his D game by keeping him paired with a responsible vet and limiting his exposure and ice time while he should have been focusing on developing his strength and defensive game. 

Housley asked for too much and basically wanted him to be Housley jr. Kreuger was right that he needed to learn to play D before being unbridled but Smith couldn't teach worth crap and he had no one to learn with and grow with. 

So now Granato pairs him with another Euro and it's go fly little bird, but he's crashing. I'm not sure at this point he is fixable. Maybe, but not likely in this scenario. Maybe on a good team with limited minutes and time to grow. 

Sabres have once again ruined a promising young D man, is Power next?

Gilbert, this is a very negative post.  Dahlin is an up and coming player. Are you kidding?  Every team in the league would want him.  

Corrrect on the poor development by the Sabres comments, but Dahlin is good enough to overcome it.  He is young, defenseman take time, the best defenseman are the ones that last long.  You are going overboard (see bold).  
 

All those minutes now might make him waaaayyy better later in his career.  

Edited October 6, 2021 by Pimlach

[Andrew Amerk]

41 minutes ago, Weave said:

Lids already had all star and Norris votes in year 4.  Noone is worried about Raz's points.  Raz puts up offense but can't play reliably in his own zone.

This is incorrect. Lidstrom wasn’t an All Star until he was 26. 

He won his first Norris at 31. 10 years after he had been in the NHL. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Andrew Amerk

[Weave]

1 minute ago, Andrew Amerk said:

This is incorrect. Lidstrom wasn’t an All Star until he was 26. 

He won his first Norris at 31. 10 years after he had been in the NHL. 

Re read my post.  He was getting votes for all star and norris in his 4th season, not he won those votes.

[JoeSchmoe]

2 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Oh, I definitely misinterpreted your sigh, then, because I initially thought it flatly mirrored my own fatigue with the inanity of OP's suggestion to move one of the league's best point-getting defensemen to forward.  To which I followed with parodic sass.

If it makes you feel any better, Dahlin ranks 20th among all defensemen since 2018-19 in points with 107P in 197GP (same as Karlsson), and that's with the absolute derth of team goal scoring during the Krueger drought.  Dahlin got back on that track with 11P in 21GP after the streak ended under Granato, compared to the 12P in 35GP previous under Krueger and in the practice-less losing streak.

Dahlin's on his way, and not really doing any worse than his comparables.  Keep in mind Dahlin also has had shortened seasons.  FWIW, Lidstrom was 18th in the league in points among defensemen over approximately the same number of beginning games.  Hedman was 70th.

Your diatribe on Dahlin's offense does not speak at all to the fact that he sucks at playing defense. He's essentially a 4th forward that plays back. I'd like to have seen some progress over 3 seasons in the NHL back there, but there hasn't been. I don't think this is a result of his development... This is a result of the fact that he's likely ALWAYS been a 4th forward that plays back.

At any point in his career has he been dominant in his own end at any level? 

[PerreaultForever]

Most everyone is saying the same basic thing. D men take time and we are always rushing them and not developing them properly. That's really all there is to it. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Gilbert, this is a very negative post.  Dahlin is an up and coming player. Are you kidding?  Every team in the league would want him.  

Corrrect on the poor development by the Sabres comments, but Dahlin is good enough to overcome it.  He is young, defenseman take time, the best defenseman are the ones that last long.  You are going overboard (see bold).  
 

All those minutes now might make him waaaayyy better later in his career.  

OR he fails to correct bad habits . 

I just don't see the progression and the slow steady improvement. I see turnovers, mistakes, panic, out of position. It's a long list and on a good team he would currently be 3rd pairing or benched. He's looking like a Gostisbehere right now and not a Hedman. 

[JoeSchmoe]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Most everyone is saying the same basic thing. D men take time and we are always rushing them and not developing them properly. That's really all there is to it. 

I agree with that, but I think unlike most elite D who dominate in their own ends in junior or college, I've seen nothing in this regard about Dahlin. Has he ever shown elite defensive upside? It seems to me its always been about the points.

[Doohicksie]

Too bad Pysyk will be the only D-man who gets to play forward this year.

[Gatorman0519]

Dahlin was 3rd all time scoring for 18 year olds. That means something. He probably has 2-3 more years before he gets it. Most are that way. 

[pi2000]

When is Samuelsson due back?   I'd prefer him with Dahlin.

[Curt]

10 hours ago, Weave said:

Lids already had all star and Norris votes in year 4.  Noone is worried about Raz's points.  Raz puts up offense but can't play reliably in his own zone.

Lidstrom came to the NHL as a 21 year old, while Dahlin came as an 18 year old.

Ages 21-24 vs ages 18-21.

That makes a massive difference and it makes for a pretty weak argument.

[dudacek]

i thought Dahlin looked better last night.