UHL Player’s Racist Gesture

[IKnowPhysics]

Gettin' spicier.  Ice Hockey Federation of Ukraine fires the GM of the Ukrainian Hockey League, Eugene Kolychev, for standing up to the Federation Disciplinary Committee's decision and calling on the IIHF to add discipline.

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Zinedine Zidane almost quit coaching the French National Team before their World Cup win because of the crap his father got.

Racism is not great in the US and Canada to a lesser extent, but we both are parsecs ahead of most of Europe.

Zidane himself got quite a lot of it due to his heritage (his parents came to France from Algeria) and that he is a practicing Muslim.

I agree on your second point, but it's not that much better in the US and Canada has a lot of issues with our Indigenous People.

[pi2000]

23 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Okay this is cancel culture I do not want to see in sports.  

People make mistakes. Kids are dumb. Hockey players (sometimes) are even dumber. Kids are often raised poorly by bad/racist parents and they need to grow and learn. One strike and you're out is just ridiculous. 

Do I excuse the guy? Absolutely not. Does he deserve punishment? Absolutely. but he also deserves a chance to mature, learn from his mistake and become better. So a very very short leash, but everyone should get a second chance .  

These types of offenses won't go away unless the punishment is severe enough.    A lifetime ban from pro-sports will send the correct message that there is zero tolerance for these types of gestures.     Once is too many, by giving the guy a slap on the wrist you're basically saying that once is OK.... just don't do it again.    That's not good enough.

[Marvin]

48 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Zidane himself got quite a lot of it due to his heritage (his parents came to France from Algeria) and that he is a practicing Muslim.

I agree on your second point, but it's not that much better in the US and Canada has a lot of issues with our Indigenous People.

Sadly, both "we are parsecs ahead of Europe" and "it's not that much better" are true.

[LGR4GM]

On 9/29/2021 at 4:10 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Okay this is cancel culture I do not want to see in sports.  

People make mistakes. Kids are dumb. Hockey players (sometimes) are even dumber. Kids are often raised poorly by bad/racist parents and they need to grow and learn. One strike and you're out is just ridiculous. 

Do I excuse the guy? Absolutely not. Does he deserve punishment? Absolutely. but he also deserves a chance to mature, learn from his mistake and become better. So a very very short leash, but everyone should get a second chance .  

Hypocrisy called and they want their definition back. 

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

FWIW this person played in the States for several years as a kid. In Hampton Roads VA for part of it. I'm going to go out on limb and say this isn't the first incident, it's just the first one that's made it to the internet.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/347844/andrei-deniskin

Yup. He has gotten away with being a racist POS to this point because of the "kids will make mistakes" and "well he learned his lesson" bs. You want him to learn his lesson, make the consequence severe enough for that to happen. 3 games and a fine is laughable. 

Personally at this point I would support my teammate and take some liberties on the ice to address the issue. 

[LGR4GM]

On 9/29/2021 at 4:10 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Okay this is cancel culture I do not want to see in sports.  

People make mistakes. Kids are dumb. Hockey players (sometimes) are even dumber. Kids are often raised poorly by bad/racist parents and they need to grow and learn. One strike and you're out is just ridiculous. 

Do I excuse the guy? Absolutely not. Does he deserve punishment? Absolutely. but he also deserves a chance to mature, learn from his mistake and become better. So a very very short leash, but everyone should get a second chance .  

He's 23 but please tell me more about how he is a sad and poor "kid". Also I bolded all the ways you are shifting blame away from this racist using excuses for his behavior. Calling a deliberate peeling of a banana towards a black player a "mistake " is a special level of excuse making. 

The fact that your post has 5 likes is a sad indictment of this board.

Edited September 30, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Pimlach]

18 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Sadly, both "we are parsecs ahead of Europe" and "it's not that much better" are true.

True, but we are miles ahead of the time when I was a kid.  Back then no one would have cared about that.  I am grateful that I had inspired and progressive parents.  Most people that were bothered by this back then would remain silent for fear of sticking out.  Awareness of the evils of racism is one if the few things better about these current times.  It’s covered by the media and discussed openly, it’s not ignored anymore.  

Edited October 1, 2021 by Pimlach

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, pi2000 said:

These types of offenses won't go away unless the punishment is severe enough.    A lifetime ban from pro-sports will send the correct message that there is zero tolerance for these types of gestures.     Once is too many, by giving the guy a slap on the wrist you're basically saying that once is OK.... just don't do it again.    That's not good enough.

I have two problems with this idea. 1) I believe in redemption and giving people a chance to change. lifetime ban for repeated offenses I'd be fine with. Lifetime ban for one, that's too extreme. and 2) If there is a clear punishment code BEFORE the incident then I also have no problem with it, but to decide something that extreme after an offense, especially when similar earlier offenses have occurred with lesser punishments seems wrong. 

Having said that I do think what he got wasn't enough. The season plus some sort of sensitivity training courses as a prerequisite to reinstatement would be a minimum imo. 

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

He's 23 but please tell me more about how he is a sad and poor "kid". Also I bolded all the ways you are shifting blame away from this racist using excuses for his behavior. Calling a deliberate peeling of a banana towards a black player a "mistake " is a special level of excuse making. 

The fact that your post has 5 likes is a sad indictment of this board.

Where did I call him a "sad and poor kid"? 

I'm not a big fan of drawing a line at any person's expense (no matter how vile they might be as an individual). You want that stuff out of the sport, have the league make a ruling that any racist gesture will be met with punishment X (be that a ban or whatever) but do it in that order, not after the fact in some PC culture way. 

The hockey hall of fame is filled with racists, homophobes, wife beaters, you name it. You want them all removed? No, we evolve as a society but we do it without singling out any one thing or grandstanding an incident. Punish the guy yes, but a lifetime ban is too extreme. 

I mean come on, hockey is way ahead of the NFL on these things and nobody lifetime bans anybody in that league of thugs, criminals and rapists.

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Where did I call him a "sad and poor kid"? 

I'm not a big fan of drawing a line at any person's expense (no matter how vile they might be as an individual). You want that stuff out of the sport, have the league make a ruling that any racist gesture will be met with punishment X (be that a ban or whatever) but do it in that order, not after the fact in some PC culture way. 

The hockey hall of fame is filled with racists, homophobes, wife beaters, you name it. You want them all removed? No, we evolve as a society but we do it without singling out any one thing or grandstanding an incident. Punish the guy yes, but a lifetime ban is too extreme. 

I mean come on, hockey is way ahead of the NFL on these things and nobody lifetime bans anybody in that league of thugs, criminals and rapists.

We aren't talking about the HHoF. We are talking about someone you made a bunch of excuses for. "People make mistakes. Kids are dumb." are a great way to justify his actions and make it sound like what he did was just a minor thing, move on. Sure the league or the IIHF should have a policy and maybe this will encourage them to make one but you are making excuses for a racist POS. That's where I took exception and you didn't even bother to address that part of the reponse because I am guessing you realize that, "People make mistakes. Kids are dumb. Hockey players (sometimes) are even dumber. Kids are often raised poorly by bad/racist parents and they need to grow and learn. One strike and you're out is just ridiculous. Do I excuse the guy?" is in fact you making excuses. Let's count shall we.

1) People make mistakes.

2) Kids are dumb (he's 23).

3) Hockey players are dumber.

4) Kids are raised poorly (still 23).

5) Needs to learn and grow is still excusing the behavior. 

Five examples just before you say "Do I excuse the guy? No." of you literally making excuses for the behavior. You may have worded it poorly but just like the hockey player in this instance I should not give you the benefit of the doubt. 

The bold has nothing to do with the conversation that was occurring, but it is very telling that you included it in the way you did. 

We do not agree, we should perhaps leave it at that. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Stoner]

Banana mime. Violent check into the boards.

Discuss.

[K-9]

It’s not enough to be “not a racist.” That is a tired, pass the buck, feel good excuse for tolerating it in our society. 

We need to be anti racist, anti bigotry, anti misogynistic, etc. That means absolute ZERO tolerance and all the potential uncomfortable truths that may entail. Like telling your bigoted uncle he’s no longer welcomed at Thanksgiving dinner, for example. Or calling out and possibly losing some longtime friends. 

We’ve all been enablers at one time or another. We’ve all been complicit by not standing up in the face of it. 

We will never be the best versions of ourselves unless we start acting like it. And that starts with me.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

We aren't talking about the HHoF. We are talking about someone you made a bunch of excuses for. "People make mistakes. Kids are dumb." are a great way to justify his actions and make it sound like what he did was just a minor thing, move on. Sure the league or the IIHF should have a policy and maybe this will encourage them to make one but you are making excuses for a racist POS. That's where I took exception and you didn't even bother to address that part of the reponse because I am guessing you realize that, "People make mistakes. Kids are dumb. Hockey players (sometimes) are even dumber. Kids are often raised poorly by bad/racist parents and they need to grow and learn. One strike and you're out is just ridiculous. Do I excuse the guy?" is in fact you making excuses. Let's count shall we.

1) People make mistakes.

2) Kids are dumb (he's 23).

3) Hockey players are dumber.

4) Kids are raised poorly (still 23).

5) Needs to learn and grow is still excusing the behavior. 

Five examples just before you say "Do I excuse the guy? No." of you literally making excuses for the behavior. You may have worded it poorly but just like the hockey player in this instance I should not give you the benefit of the doubt. 

The bold has nothing to do with the conversation that was occurring, but it is very telling that you included it in the way you did. 

We do not agree, we should perhaps leave it at that. 

I notice how you glossed over my comment on worshiped hockey players from the past, and completely ignored my comment about how for years (and still) the NFL excuses and forgives much worse offenses than this. Point being, the crime and the punishment should be in proportion. The main point here being that banning this guy is a feel good response that has very little effect and simply ruins this guy's life for a dumb (and offensive) incident. NOBODY emulates this guy, or follows him or worships him. He won't be in the hall of fame anywhere. He won't be a pro broadcaster after he retires, he won't be someone young kids look for footsteps to follow in. Banning him just makes people like you feel good. It does nothing. 

You want that sort of thing out of sports? I'm with you on that 100%. But if you don't start with the "stars" and the "pros" that do these things you're really skirting the issues for money etc. and thus nothing changes.

My many excuses are just possibilities to explain the guy. Might be true, might not. I don't know anything about him, and neither do you.  Some moron bullies need help, not just a beat down. 

The only point I give to you is his age. I assumed he was younger. 23 makes it worse I agree. He should be better at that age, but it doesn't change the argument. 

But honestly, I don't care about this guy. You want to have at me as you like to do keep bringing it but you are right, we will not agree. 

[Stoner]

Annnnnnd Jack never became a Sabre. (Tweet using the other f-word.)

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

It’s not enough to be “not a racist.” That is a tired, pass the buck, feel good excuse for tolerating it in our society. 

We need to be anti racist, anti bigotry, anti misogynistic, etc. That means absolute ZERO tolerance and all the potential uncomfortable truths that may entail. Like telling your bigoted uncle he’s no longer welcomed at Thanksgiving dinner, for example. Or calling out and possibly losing some longtime friends. 

We’ve all been enablers at one time or another. We’ve all been complicit by not standing up in the face of it. 

We will never be the best versions of ourselves unless we start acting like it. And that starts with me.

A glorious amen.

[Andrew Amerk]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I have two problems with this idea. 1) I believe in redemption and giving people a chance to change. lifetime ban for repeated offenses I'd be fine with. Lifetime ban for one, that's too extreme. and 2) If there is a clear punishment code BEFORE the incident then I also have no problem with it, but to decide something that extreme after an offense, especially when similar earlier offenses have occurred with lesser punishments seems wrong. 

Having said that I do think what he got wasn't enough. The season plus some sort of sensitivity training courses as a prerequisite to reinstatement would be a minimum imo. 

Let’s say you own a gas station. You have an employee (cashier) for 10 years who is always there. Never calls in sick, is never late, never makes mistakes with the register. Friendly and reliable, the customers all love the employee. 

One day, you catch the employee stealing $20. What do you do? Give the employee a stern talking to? Suspend the employee? 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The answer is you fire the employee. Not because it’s their first time stealing. You fire the employee because it’s the first time they got caught. 

[PerreaultForever]

I'm not firing a guy for taking 20 bucks. 

[Andrew Amerk]

6 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm not firing a guy for taking 20 bucks. 

You missed the point. It’s not the first time he or she stole $20. 

It’s the first time you caught them doing it. 

[PerreaultForever]

43 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

You missed the point. It’s not the first time he or she stole $20. 

It’s the first time you caught them doing it. 

No I got that. But it's also an assumption. 

I might be old school, but I still hold to a 3 strikes and you are out kind of mindset. First offense you get punished but you get a chance for redemption on a short leash. Second offense you get a big punishment. You're going to have to convince and beg for another chance, but you can still earn one. Third, we don't even discuss it you're done. 

You can argue for 2 strikes I'd see merit in that, but just 1, no, I'm not on board with that cancel culture mentality. 

[Andrew Amerk]

17 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

No I got that. But it's also an assumption. 

I might be old school, but I still hold to a 3 strikes and you are out kind of mindset. First offense you get punished but you get a chance for redemption on a short leash. Second offense you get a big punishment. You're going to have to convince and beg for another chance, but you can still earn one. Third, we don't even discuss it you're done. 

You can argue for 2 strikes I'd see merit in that, but just 1, no, I'm not on board with that cancel culture mentality. 

No, you’re still not getting it. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

No, you’re still not getting it. 

and you're not getting me. We disagree that's all. 

Look, I don't want to keep defending this as it's going to seem like I'm defending racism or something and I'm not so let's just leave it at that.