Is Don Granato the best coach the Sabres have had since Lindy Ruff?

[PromoTheRobot]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Wow, that is some lofty praise after a mere 3 games against crap opponents. 

The thing Granato has going for him here that his predecessors didn't is there are no "names" on this roster. Oh sure, maybe Dahlin and even Cozens are top tier prospects or young players but they haven't made a name for themselves yet. Nobody here is bigger than the coach. Nobody is super important. Skinner and his huge contract, will he buy in? I'm not so sure, time will tell. But overall, this is an egalitarian bunch and nobody is the big shot who can go their own way. 

There's a system, there's an identity. idk if Granato tailored this system to the talent and skills he had to work with or that was just his system for this nhl and he fit them into it (I think the former, but just guessing). We shall see how it holds up, how it responds to adversity, and if it'll work as games get tougher. I'm skeptical. 

(and just for the record, Lindy's undefeated so far this season too :0)

Do you watch Granato on the bench during games. Guy never breaks character. Even after Skinner's goal to take the lead. Dude is locked in 

Edited October 21, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Doohicksie]

19 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I’d love to know how this would have occurred?

Yeah... I was going to make a similar remark in another thread but then I thought it through.... he wasn't even on the radar, even as an assistant in the organization, until Ralph was shown the door.  And really it's not *just* Granato, it's his partnership with Adams that seems to be turning the team around.  Granato with GMTM?  Not seeing it.  With JBot?  Eh..... maybe?  He proclaimed to be a fan of "North-South" hockey but neither of his HCs (Housley and Krueger) pushed the pace much.

I think Granato, as part of USA Hockey, had a broad view into the pool of hockey players in the NHL, had a vision of what he wanted to do, and has had Adams bring in players he knew that could execute that vision. 

I asked in other threads if players like Bjork and Caggiula are "Sabres" now.  I think in seeing the responses and writing this post, I've formulated an answer:  No, they're not long term members of the team.  Rather, they're proto-Sabres.  They were brought not because of the goals they'll score, but because of the style of play they're known for, in an effort set the tone and establish the personality of the team.  If they do play up to a high enough standard, they may hang around, but that's not why they were brought in.  He didn't "tailor this system to the talent and skills he had to work with or  fit the players into an NHL system" (paraphrasing @PerreaultForever);  He worked with Adams to bring in template players to build the system around.

Anyway, I think JBot was married to the Concept of Eichel and building a team around big pieces rather than bringing in the "small pieces" to build a system, then adding at the top to build a functioning team (which seems to be the current direction).  We've been frustrated for years that the GM brings in top players and the team still sucked.  It seems like KA and DG are doing it differently and more effectively.

Edited October 21, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri

[LGR4GM]

Granato alone would not have turned the team around. The Sabres had systemic issues throughout ranging from player evaluation (they took Nylander over Sergachev for crying out loud and thought Bogosian and Kane were good) to player development (see every first round draft pick of the last few years), to trading correctly (ROR, nuff said). These systemic issues would not have been fixed by Granato alone because they start at the top with the Owners and GM. It appears Adams has convinced TP that his continued interference and demands on the hockey department have not worked and he needs to step back and let the experts do their thing. This has involved in short order Buffalo building one of the best looking analytics departments in hockey. It has involved us hiring a real coach who understands the game but also understands his players. It has involved us identify who we want to move forward with and who we need to move on from. 

Love Granato and what he is doing but he would have been another Band-Aid on a bullet wound. Adams still has to nail the Eichel trade and the 2022 draft (2021 draft was better but still some work to do). In the end we're left with the sputtering fumes of the last of our hopium. Will it all work? No idea but at least the Sabres don't have Quinn, JJ, and Power in the NHL right now and at least the analytics hires are great and at least Jack hasn't been traded for Sobotka and Harry Potter's used socks. 

[JohnC]

15 hours ago, Taro T said:

 

Yep, you and @Thorny are the only 2 people here that want Eichel back.  <_<

Sadly, Adams wanted Eichel gone prior to the neck injury & related drama.  Really don't see a way he gets his mind changed on that front.

I agree with you that Adams doesn't want Eichel back. However, there were arguments made that he wouldn't fit in with a Granato coached team. I strenuously disagree with that point. His talents clearly do match with the style of play that the coach wants his team to play. And there were repeated comments that Eichel was a cancer in the room.  Again, I disagree with that unfair characterization of him and his character. There were a number of comments made about the disharmony of the room with Jack and harmony without him. I disagree with the notion that locker rooms in most sports are a sacred space comprised of a group of blood brothers. That's a big stretch from reality. More often than not the locker room is made up of disparate personalities that play hard for each other and then after the games  go their separate ways. The idyllic scene in the room is not as real as many believe it to be.  

[Taro T]

20 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with you that Adams doesn't want Eichel back. However, there were arguments made that he wouldn't fit in with a Granato coached team. I strenuously disagree with that point. His talents clearly do match with the style of play that the coach wants his team to play. And there were repeated comments that Eichel was a cancer in the room.  Again, I disagree with that unfair characterization of him and his character. There were a number of comments made about the disharmony of the room with Jack and harmony without him. I disagree with the notion that locker rooms in most sports are a sacred space comprised of a group of blood brothers. That's a big stretch from reality. More often than not the locker room is made up of disparate personalities that play hard for each other and then after the games  go their separate ways. The idyllic scene in the room is not as real as many believe it to be.  

Which is fine.  Don't see how any of that is relevant to what you're replying to.

[JohnC]

28 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Which is fine.  Don't see how any of that is relevant to what you're replying to.

I don't understand what you are getting at. The simple solution is just don't respond back. I say this with no rancor. 

[Thorner]

9 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Fortunes have changed.  There's a lot of frustration, especially on Jack's part, right now.  In fact, it's got to be driving him crazy to not be able to play, and the dysfunctional organization that pays him is suddenly doing well in his absence.  Not that his absence is the cause of the improvement, but still, he's missing out of the success in Buffalo, and being able to contribute to any other team's success as well.  It's gotta be hard on him.  For a lot of us you look at him and say, "He's already earned over $30 million, he's set for life, but at 24 you still want to leave your mark on your chosen field, especially when you're damned good at it.

 

I have no idea which side first started talking trade, whether it was Jack or KA or mutual consent.  I wonder if the Sabres came around and allowed the ADR procedure, would Jack be amenable to staying with the Sabres?  Sure he hated not winning when they sucked, but if they're actually..... good....?  Would he want to be a piece of that?  And would he want to be just a piece (as opposed to the face of the franchise, which chances are he won't be after a trade)?

On a bit of a roll, love to see it. 

I also like how people think he somehow took home and banked an actual 30 million or whatever. Guaranteed not close to that after all the takeaways. 

Or was that after all the taxes etc were taken into consideration? Didn't do the math 

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Love Granato and what he is doing but he would have been another Band-Aid on a bullet wound. Adams still has to nail the Eichel trade and the 2022 draft (2021 draft was better but still some work to do). In the end we're left with the sputtering fumes of the last of our hopium. Will it all work? No idea but at least the Sabres don't have Quinn, JJ, and Power in the NHL right now and at least the analytics hires are great and at least Jack hasn't been traded for Sobotka and Harry Potter's used socks. 

Agree, and Dobby says hi. 

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I don't understand what you are getting at. The simple solution is just don't respond back. I say this with no rancor. 

Clearly.

[Thorner]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I don't understand what you are getting at. The simple solution is just don't respond back. I say this with no rancor. 

You left him off the "People who don't think Jack Eichel is a walking Succubus" team

Edited October 21, 2021 by Thorny

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

You left him off the "People who don't think Jack Eichel is a walking Succubus" team

Others as well.

[Thorner]

10 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Others as well.

For sure, but their additions to the team will be revealed through various end (of the game) credits sequences over the next several months, no spoilers

Edited October 21, 2021 by Thorny

[Doohicksie]

28 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I also like how people think he somehow took home and banked an actual 30 million or whatever. Guaranteed not close to that after all the takeaways. 

If he still has, say, a third of that, $10 million, he should be set up for a very comfortable life.

[Thorner]

Just now, The Ghost of Yuri said:

If he still has, say, a third of that, $10 million, he should be set up for a very comfortable life.

Sure, but I assume the mindset on that type of thing changes once you start making that much. All relative. 

Burns illustrated this best, decades ago:

 

[Doohicksie]

See also:

[Doohicksie]

The first indication from those outside Buffalo that Granato may be on to something here:

The NHL's power rankings (Super 16)

Edited October 21, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Do you watch Granato on the bench during games. Guy never breaks character. Even after Skinner's goal to take the lead. Dude is locked in 

He doesn't strike me as a very emotional guy. More of a thinker. Definitely not a Tortorella type, Maybe a Roger Neilson. Most likely a Craig Ramsey. 

What we have to wait for is to see how the team adapts to adversity. It's all fine when the opposition lets you play your scheme, but we will run up against teams that won't pretty soon and how he adjusts and adapts to that will tell us a lot more about how good a coach he might be. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I asked in other threads if players like Bjork and Caggiula are "Sabres" now.  I think in seeing the responses and writing this post, I've formulated an answer:  No, they're not long term members of the team.  Rather, they're proto-Sabres.  They were brought not because of the goals they'll score, but because of the style of play they're known for, in an effort set the tone and establish the personality of the team.  If they do play up to a high enough standard, they may hang around, but that's not why they were brought in.  He didn't "tailor this system to the talent and skills he had to work with or  fit the players into an NHL system" (paraphrasing @PerreaultForever);  He worked with Adams to bring in template players to build the system around.

Oh come on, now I'm all happy with how things have gone so far but Adams hasn't "brought in' anybody. Bjork was a throw in for a deal because the Bruins couldn't fit him in under the cap (Lazar was cheaper). Bjork was benched in Beantown and Caggiula was a cast off. Old goalies nobody wanted? retread D men teams had given up on. You make it sound like they deeply analyzed these guys skill sets and designed around them and that's just nonsense. 

It's all about the kids. The system, it's not that different from what Housley proposed. I still think this is a tank team, and I still think that's the plan, but that includes a tear down and a culture shift and maybe they are getting that part right. 

In a typical Sabres way, maybe they can't even tank properly lol. 

[Cheektorado]

22 hours ago, Thorny said:

You are positing an opinion on what color the sky is. 

It's a fact that Eichel evolved his game. 

I'll interject something here if I may.  I seem to see myself in the middle of all this Jack stuff.  As to him "evolving" his game since he became a Sabre well of course he did.  When I was defending Jack a couple of years ago it was mainly on how much better he could of been with a good GM/HC/team mates.  I still believe that with more around him he had potential to improve his game more.  The constant losing and embarrassment he must have been feeling has to be a large reason he feels he needs to move on.  

His "attitude" for sake of a better word has seemed (in my opinion) to decline and I don't totally blame him for that.  Some of these discussions on this board seems to put the onus on the Sabres about having Jack play with them again.  What I don't see is anything from Jack's side saying he wants to do that.  Has he even commented on the Sabres 3 game win to start the season?

Until the day comes when Jack interviews with the press saying he want to be "all in" with the Sabres he's finished here.  The facts seem to indicate that is what both sides want.  If "that" day comes I will revisit my feelings but as of now he's all but gone to me and I suspect many other Sabres fans.

I say all of this because I get the feeling that the fans wanting Jack back seem to vilify (not saying you specifically) those who want to move on.  FWIW.

[PromoTheRobot]

DG on WUFO Radio.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[triumph_communes]

Granato is cool and all but I believe the change is 80% due to Steve Smith being banished. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Granato is cool and all but I believe the change is 80% due to Steve Smith being banished. 

lol, but ya, I was happy to see him go too. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

One thing that is also becoming clear is DG wants his guys to fill out this roster.  I wondered why KA took Bjork in the Hall deal, signed a stiff like Hayden or acquired Butcher.  The answer is pretty clear now after reading this Athletic article on Hayden.  KA went out and got guys DG has established relationships with.   https://theathletic.com/2905903/2021/10/21/a-different-type-of-player-sabres-turn-to-john-hayden-for-versatility-size-and-a-missing-physical-edge/

According to the article, Bjork, Malone (AHL), MacInnis (AHL), Hayden, Butcher and Eichel played for DG at the USNTDP.  FYI Hurley, Compher and Fasching were also on those teams. 

[Doohicksie]

That's been pretty obvious.  I guess if he coached a high pressure game with that program and he knows who was good at it, he knows they won't have a long learning curve.... basically plug & play.

[jad1]

On 10/21/2021 at 8:23 AM, LabattBlue said:

I’d love to know how this would have occurred?

It's hypothetical.  Stating the obvious that terrible coaching and GMing have ruined this franchise.

[SwampD]

I think Granato is better than Ruff. I just hope that we don’t trade all of our best players away because of money and can find out what he could actually do with talent on the roster.

I ***** hate this team.