LGR4GM Posted October 18, 2021 Author Report Posted October 18, 2021 On 10/16/2021 at 11:15 PM, The Ghost of Yuri said: I'm sorry, what was that? To just do what he feels is best and don't worry about failing or whatever it was? 3 3
Thorner Posted October 18, 2021 Report Posted October 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Granato is more/less the opposite of the Luke TLJ "everything you just said is wrong" meme
K-9 Posted October 18, 2021 Report Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, LGR4GM said: Yeah, Granato is a different breed. Best early example of this is after a particularly horrendous Cozens shift on Saturday, a shift that previous Sabres coaches would have pinned his ass to the bench for, Granato left him out there and double shifted him. Gave him an immediate chance to make a better play or two and erase the poor ones. Which Cozens promptly did. I think there is tremendous value in that. 7
dudacek Posted October 19, 2021 Report Posted October 19, 2021 7 hours ago, K-9 said: Yeah, Granato is a different breed. Best early example of this is after a particularly horrendous Cozens shift on Saturday, a shift that previous Sabres coaches would have pinned his ass to the bench for, Granato left him out there and double shifted him. Gave him an immediate chance to make a better play or two and erase the poor ones. Which Cozens promptly did. I think there is tremendous value in that. All this. Its also exactly what Granato promised he would do. Another point in his favour. 4
Srw1525 Posted October 19, 2021 Report Posted October 19, 2021 I would like to think so but it’s too early to tell! Lets get through this season first
JohnC Posted October 19, 2021 Report Posted October 19, 2021 Attached is a 12 min. WGR link with Don Granato on the Howard and Jeremy Show. It's so refreshing to listen to a coach (in any sport) who answers questions clearly and thoughtfully. In his answer about Dahlin he points out that as the team gets better he will also get better. At the end of the interview he talks about Okposo. His answer is a testament to KO's preparation and him as a player and leader. https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/authors/howard-and-jeremy 1
Taro T Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 Not sure if this is the right spot for this, but wanted to compare Krueger's style vs Granato's now that we've actually got 3 games of Don getting to set & implement his whole scheme. Krueger and Granato both wanted the team to skate fast & put pressure on the other team. But thats where the similarity ends. Krueger always wanted his guys back on their side of the puck when the other team had control. He wanted to make sure a F dropped back pretty much fully should a D join/lead the rush & he would definitely reduce the forecheck with a lead. He didn't stress as much as Granato does having bodies in front of the other team's net even before the puck was there. He actually kind of frowned on it before there's a serious chance to get the puck there because it's tough to get back to your point in your own end from the front of the other guy's net.. He employed a very passive PK which in today's NHL will be bottom 5. The shooters eat that up. It's a kind of joyless game when things aren't clicking & had to be tough to sustain over a full schedule. Granato wants that pressure & and speed, but he also lets the players do the fun stuff: drive to the net, be there creating havoc even if the puck still has a ways to go to get there. Rush up the ice 4 men strong - create the offense & trust that if they chunk it away, the 5th & and the guy that's always back can get there. Let a player hang back provided the other teams D is staying honest hanging back so that stragglers can't create a breakaway. Pressure everywhere on the ice, including on the PK - but don't be out of control; there's a fine line to walk there but this team is doing it so far. And, if you're going to mess up, make sure it's via an act of commission & not omission. And if that's what the screw up was - go right back out there and make up for it. No dog house for that. There's a joy to the game he has them play. It's also extremely high energy. Hopefully they can maintain that energy over the full 82 (dare we say 82+) but that will be tough to carry on the whole way; at least they're young so maybe they can. Am ready to buy in on Don, Friday's test will be huge because the Bruins are both relentless and skilled. The Bergeron line might be the league's best as they can do it at both ends of the ice. Fortunately Cozens got a bit of swagger back after getting that 2nd 2ndary assist. Thompson seems to have it too. And Eakin & Ruotsalainen are fitting in well w/ their linemates. The 3 D pairings are all working for the 1st time in what, 14 years? If a shorthanded squad is ever going to be ready for the B's & the goalie that spurned them, it has to be now. Bring on the Bruins. 4 1
Flashsabre Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 I really wonder what was going through Granato’s head last year standing on the bench with Krueger or in team meetings with him. 1
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Flashsabre said: I really wonder what was going through Granato’s head last year standing on the bench with Krueger or in team meetings with him. “How am I going to get another coaching job after working for this idiot.” “Does this guy actually know anything about hockey?” “I wonder how late Chef’s is open and can I order spaghetti-parm with a side of meatballs to go on their website?” Edited October 20, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN 1 2
Doohicksie Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Flashsabre said: I really wonder what was going through Granato’s head last year standing on the bench with Krueger or in team meetings with him. Oh, I think I know. I also think he Granato was feeding information to Adams so that when Adams had the meeting in Boca that resulted in Krueger's firing, it wasn't just the team performance that he was talking about, it was the lack of intensity during practices and all the other things Krueger was doing wrong. The way things worked out I just figured KA had a role in bringing Granato in but apparently that was JBot's call. Regardless, it seems pretty obvious to me that Adams and Granato have been allies and confidants for quite some time. Edited October 20, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri
Thorner Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 Botts' body of work overall was poor but he did leave us a few golden nuggets. A triple-coiler or 2 as well but... don't forget the nuggs.
bob_sauve28 Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 9 hours ago, Taro T said: Not sure if this is the right spot for this, but wanted to compare Krueger's style vs Granato's now that we've actually got 3 games of Don getting to set & implement his whole scheme. Krueger and Granato both wanted the team to skate fast & put pressure on the other team. But thats where the similarity ends. Krueger always wanted his guys back on their side of the puck when the other team had control. He wanted to make sure a F dropped back pretty much fully should a D join/lead the rush & he would definitely reduce the forecheck with a lead. He didn't stress as much as Granato does having bodies in front of the other team's net even before the puck was there. He actually kind of frowned on it before there's a serious chance to get the puck there because it's tough to get back to your point in your own end from the front of the other guy's net.. He employed a very passive PK which in today's NHL will be bottom 5. The shooters eat that up. It's a kind of joyless game when things aren't clicking & had to be tough to sustain over a full schedule. Granato wants that pressure & and speed, but he also lets the players do the fun stuff: drive to the net, be there creating havoc even if the puck still has a ways to go to get there. Rush up the ice 4 men strong - create the offense & trust that if they chunk it away, the 5th & and the guy that's always back can get there. Let a player hang back provided the other teams D is staying honest hanging back so that stragglers can't create a breakaway. Pressure everywhere on the ice, including on the PK - but don't be out of control; there's a fine line to walk there but this team is doing it so far. And, if you're going to mess up, make sure it's via an act of commission & not omission. And if that's what the screw up was - go right back out there and make up for it. No dog house for that. There's a joy to the game he has them play. It's also extremely high energy. Hopefully they can maintain that energy over the full 82 (dare we say 82+) but that will be tough to carry on the whole way; at least they're young so maybe they can. Am ready to buy in on Don, Friday's test will be huge because the Bruins are both relentless and skilled. The Bergeron line might be the league's best as they can do it at both ends of the ice. Fortunately Cozens got a bit of swagger back after getting that 2nd 2ndary assist. Thompson seems to have it too. And Eakin & Ruotsalainen are fitting in well w/ their linemates. The 3 D pairings are all working for the 1st time in what, 14 years? If a shorthanded squad is ever going to be ready for the B's & the goalie that spurned them, it has to be now. Bring on the Bruins. The passing they are doing is like that. So many no look passes to places where its kind of dangerous, but it works! So refreshing to see them ping ponging the puck around tape to tape. 1
Thorner Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 And Granato isn't known as a defensive coach, right? Shows he's been good at maximizing what a team has to offer, which probably bodes well if he's given more talent to work with
JohnC Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Thorny said: And Granato isn't known as a defensive coach, right? Shows he's been good at maximizing what a team has to offer, which probably bodes well if he's given more talent to work with You and I may be the only two inhabitants on this board who would love to see a healthy Jack back on this team. Granato's system that is predicated on speed and north/south play is an ideal fit for Jack's elite skill set. I understand the complexities of the Jack situation and how it relates to his relationship with the organization. But if there was a way to make the situation it could be tremendously beneficial for him and the organization. Some times time heals and sometimes it doesn't. Usually when people act on animus it end up being self-defeating. Edited October 20, 2021 by JohnC 2
Thorner Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 1 minute ago, JohnC said: You and I may be the only two inhabitants on this board who would love toarsee a healthy Jack back on this team. Granato's system that is predicated on speed and north/south play is an ideal fit for Jack's elite skill set. I understand the complexities of the Jack situation and how it relates to his relationship with the organization. But if there was a way to make the situation it could be tremendously beneficial for him and the organization. Some times time heals and sometimes it doesn't. Usually when people act on animus it end up being self-defeating. It's a meme now. It started out that he might be a locker room problem - sure. It's like the Sabres winning 3 games has given people carte blanche to attribute any negative quality to him they see fit. Jack has *never* been a selfish on ice player. He has consistently elevated everyone he has played with statistically. It's going too far now. 2
darksabre Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, JohnC said: You and I may be the only two inhabitants on this board who would love to see a healthy Jack back on this team. Granato's system that is predicated on speed and north/south play is an ideal fit for Jack's elite skill set. I understand the complexities of the Jack situation and how it relates to his relationship with the organization. But if there was a way to make the situation it could be tremendously beneficial for him and the organization. Some times time heals and sometimes it doesn't. Usually when people act on animus it end up being self-defeating. I would like to see it, but the org has long since made up its mind about Jack. They don't want him on this team anymore.
Doohicksie Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 31 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said: The passing they are doing is like that. So many no look passes to places where its kind of dangerous, but it works! I've been thinking about this. When I lived in Detroit in the 1990s the Wings were very good at this. I think it's not so much that they're passing to each other; it's more that they read the opposing team's position and look for the gaps and go to fill them. Then when a Sabre is pressured he simply passes to a gap with the expectation that one of his teammates is ready to fill it. They don't pass to where they are, they pass to where they expect them to get to, if that makes sense. Area passes, if you will. Early in the game yesterday it seemed that Vancouver was wise to that method and was actively trying to fill the gaps too. But as the game wore on they got away from it. I'm not sure if that's really what's happening but that's what it looks like to my eye. So "blind passes" aren't as blind as they appear to be. 3
Thorner Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, darksabre said: I would like to see it, but the org has long since made up its mind about Jack. They don't want him on this team anymore. It's true. It would be completely shocking to find out Jack's on ice style of play has anything to do with it, though. There simply hasn't even been a whisper through all of this that other teams are skeptical due to on-ice fit - and there has been SO MUCH speculation that that going unmentioned is telling in terms of how people view his on ice aptitude/ability to fit in stylistically Edited October 20, 2021 by Thorny
JohnC Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, darksabre said: I would like to see it, but the org has long since made up its mind about Jack. They don't want him on this team anymore. I don't deny that the organization has conclusively made a decision to move on. However, sometimes over time the situation can change.
bob_sauve28 Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said: I've been thinking about this. When I lived in Detroit in the 1990s the Wings were very good at this. I think it's not so much that they're passing to each other; it's more that they read the opposing team's position and look for the gaps and go to fill them. Then when a Sabre is pressured he simply passes to a gap with the expectation that one of his teammates is ready to fill it. They don't pass to where they are, they pass to where they expect them to get to, if that makes sense. Area passes, if you will. Early in the game yesterday it seemed that Vancouver was wise to that method and was actively trying to fill the gaps too. But as the game wore on they got away from it. I'm not sure if that's really what's happening but that's what it looks like to my eye. So "blind passes" aren't as blind as they appear to be. I wish a reporter would ask the coach about this! Really interesting!
Doohicksie Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, JohnC said: However, sometimes over time the situation can change. About the only thing I can imagine would be that the disc herniation does self-heal in time for him to return to hockey before the Olympics. Then he might see that the organization wasn't so wrong after all. I think he was already on the way out (in KA's view) before the extent of his injury was known. I think it would take a change of heart on both KA's and Eichel's parts, with perhaps each indicating to the other they want to reconsider trading him out. Short of that I think he's gone. The only reason I think it's possible is that I'm looking at Skinner apparently buying in and getting rewarded yesterday. He still plays a goofy unconventional game but he's trying to do so within the bounds of Granato's system and is contributing. If Jack decided he wanted in, and Granato was receptive, I think you'd see Jack's style evolve a bit but not too much; I think a lot of what he was doing fits in with Granato's scheme already. At this point though there's probably too much water under the bridge. Even if Jack wanted to stay, I'm not sure if Adams wants to keep him. 4 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said: I wish a reporter would ask the coach about this! Really interesting! I don't think Granato would tip his hand. If his system is working, why explain it to the opposition and give them something to counter?
bob_sauve28 Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said: About the only thing I can imagine would be that the disc herniation does self-heal in time for him to return to hockey before the Olympics. Then he might see that the organization wasn't so wrong after all. I think he was already on the way out (in KA's view) before the extent of his injury was known. I think it would take a change of heart on both KA's and Eichel's parts, with perhaps each indicating to the other they want to reconsider trading him out. Short of that I think he's gone. The only reason I think it's possible is that I'm looking at Skinner apparently buying in and getting rewarded yesterday. He still plays a goofy unconventional game but he's trying to do so within the bounds of Granato's system and is contributing. If Jack decided he wanted in, and Granato was receptive, I think you'd see Jack's style evolve a bit but not too much; I think a lot of what he was doing fits in with Granato's scheme already. At this point though there's probably too much water under the bridge. Even if Jack wanted to stay, I'm not sure if Adams wants to keep him. I don't think Granato would tip his hand. If his system is working, why explain it to the opposition and give them something to counter? Because we want to know!! 😀
darksabre Posted October 20, 2021 Report Posted October 20, 2021 27 minutes ago, Thorny said: It's true. It would be completely shocking to find out Jack's on ice style of play has anything to do with it, though. There simply hasn't even been a whisper through all of this that other teams are skeptical due to on-ice fit - and there has been SO MUCH speculation that that going unmentioned is telling in terms of how people view his on ice aptitude/ability to fit in stylistically Oh it has nothing to do with on ice stuff, believe me.
Recommended Posts