Is Don Granato the best coach the Sabres have had since Lindy Ruff?

[pi2000]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Dahlin better ✔️

Thompson better ✔️

Skinner better ✔️

Okposo better ✔️

IMO they're better because Kruger is gone.  

That said, fire wagon hockey is fun, but it's not a winning brand of hockey.   

To win consistently in this league you need to play sound defensively, and under Granato they don't.

Do better.

Edited March 16, 2022 by pi2000

[PromoTheRobot]

7 hours ago, pi2000 said:

IMO they're better because Kruger is gone.  

That said, fire wagon hockey is fun, but it's not a winning brand of hockey.   

To win consistently in this league you need to play sound defensively, and under Granato they don't.

Do better.

That's funny because I saw some pretty amazing defense played Sunday. Maybe you were getting a beer and missed it?

[JohnC]

7 hours ago, pi2000 said:

IMO they're better because Kruger is gone.  

That said, fire wagon hockey is fun, but it's not a winning brand of hockey.   

To win consistently in this league you need to play sound defensively, and under Granato they don't.

Do better.

The coach has talked about the issue of whether it is more important to accentuate offense vs defense or vice versa. His philosophy is that it is much more challenging to install an offense than it is to install the defense. He stated that his bias is toward working on the offense at the expense of defense as opposed to first building a defense at the expense of the more difficult task of establishing an offensive system.

The issue of offense vs defense that you bring up at this point is circumscribed by the lack of overall talent. As the talent base is increased the imbalance between the two parts of the game will in my opinion be more equalized. Adding Power to the mix along with the expectation of added blueline talent in the offseason should equalize this imbalance more.  

[Stoner]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The coach has talked about the issue of whether it is more important to accentuate offense vs defense or vice versa. His philosophy is that it is much more challenging to install an offense than it is to install the defense. He stated that his bias is toward working on the offense at the expense of defense as opposed to first building a defense at the expense of the more difficult task of establishing an offensive system.

The issue of offense vs defense that you bring up at this point is circumscribed by the lack of overall talent. As the talent base is increased the imbalance between the two parts of the game will in my opinion be more equalized. Adding Power to the mix along with the expectation of added blueline talent in the offseason should equalize this imbalance more.  

Over under on JC's SAT verbal score: 750.

[JohnC]

Just now, PASabreFan said:

Over under on JC's SAT verbal score: 750.

When placing a bet on me always go with the under. You'll consistently win money taking that strategy. 😃

[SDS]

Just now, JohnC said:

When placing a bet on me always go with the under. You'll consistently win money taking that strategy. 😃

5

[That Aud Smell]

On 3/9/2022 at 2:28 PM, jad1 said:

I don't know about that.  Todd McLellen is mid-range NHL coach, but against Buffalo he put his team into  1-3-1 trap after gaining the lead and snuffed the Sabres out. 

<snip>

I thought this was a great post. I was going to reply to a number of things in it, but then they became too numerous. Just solid takes. I don't even necessarily agree with all of them -- but I nonetheless think this is a fair and fairly comprehensive assessment of who and what HCDG is and what the Sabres are under him -- for now.

Upthread, it was discussed how DG is intentionally making the team play fast and free in order to get them to understand what it takes to create offence in the NHL, which he posits is the hardest thing to teach at this level. My inference has been: The other stuff comes later (hopefully not too much later). 

On 3/9/2022 at 2:37 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Kings have significantly more talent then the Sabres have including 3 future Hall of Fame players in Doughty, Koptiar and Quick.  They have 7 guys with double digit goals to our 4. Just compare their goaltending to ours. As I stated a good coach can make a good team very good and that is what McLellen has done, helped by HOF leadership in the locker room.  

Fair deuce here as well.

7 hours ago, pi2000 said:

That said, fire wagon hockey is fun, but it's not a winning brand of hockey.   

To win consistently in this league you need to play sound defensively, and under Granato they don't.

Do better.

I'm not sure I'd call what they're doing fire wagon hockey. I think the plan is for the d-game to improve on a timeline that's different than the offence's development. I think. We'll see.

[SDS]

7 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Upthread, it was discussed how DG is intentionally making the team play fast and free in order to get them to understand what it takes to create offence in the NHL, which he posits is the hardest thing to teach at this level. My inference has been: The other stuff comes later (hopefully not too much later). 

I apologize if this is only perceived as being a mild tangent, but this relates to A soccer coach my son had.

He was coached by this dude from England who was a UEFA referee over there. Super knowledgeable of the game. Actually possesses a coveted German Soccer Federation development manual that few people have.

Development wise, he told me that scoring was so hard that when coaching kids, he would not even begin to teach defense until they were 14 years old. Everything else before then would concentrate on the development of offense. I found that to be remarkable and completely different than every other American coach either of my children had.

[dudacek]

I agree with Pi’s observations that the Sabres can be tighter defensively and smarter with in-game tactics and usage.

I also think Granato would be the first to admit that, but he’s playing a longer game here, one that coaches generally aren’t afforded at the NHL level.

Lack of coaching knowledge is among the least of my concerns with Donnie.

 

 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

Development wise, he told me that scoring was so hard that when coaching kids, he would not even begin to teach defense until they were 14 years old. Everything else before then would concentrate on the development of offense. I found that to be remarkable and completely different than every other American coach either of my children had.

I think this plays here. And I think that's a smart approach. By its nature, creating offence (and scoring goals) in highly competitive environments requires so much initiative, imagination, skill, technique (and an emphasis on the latter - technique in that final third is so difficult to attain) that you must focus there first. Defence, by comparison, is more reactive and also more straightforward in terms of how it gets done. I actually think that the biggest trick with teaching defence is teaching how it best transitions to ... offence.

[dudacek]

57 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I think this plays here. And I think that's a smart approach. By its nature, creating offence (and scoring goals) in highly competitive environments requires so much initiative, imagination, skill, technique (and an emphasis on the latter - technique in that final third is so difficult to attain) that you must focus there first. Defence, by comparison, is more reactive and also more straightforward in terms of how it gets done. I actually think that the biggest trick with teaching defence is teaching how it best transitions to ... offence.

I've heard Granato say pretty much exactly this on more than one occasion.

So many say they want the coach to “let the kids play and learn.” That's exactly what Donnie is doing.

He’s not the only coach to understand this, but not many are given the opportunity to do it because their primary job is to win.

Edited March 16, 2022 by dudacek

[That Aud Smell]

@dudacek trust the process? 😲

[woods-racer]

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, SDS said:

5

If you want to get into the money I would recommend that you go lower. 🍺

[Doohicksie]

On 9/28/2021 at 5:51 PM, Zamboni said:

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I think one thing that needs to be considered about Granato is that he is a developmental coach, but he is also developing as a head coach. 

The month of March is showing him putting it all together and shifting from a stance of playing to develop the players, to playing to win. 

I think the one notable aspect of this is the way he shuffled lines yesterday.  He's been doing that lately a bit in-game and it seems like he's learning when to do it and is putting good line combinations together.  For instance moving Kyle Okposo into Hinostroza's spot on the Cozens line seemed to really wake it up.  Kyle still provides solid on-ice leadership.  They line is a good speed line with Hinostroza but with Okie it's still fast but becomes tougher too.

If you look at the assists, especially the non-power-play goals, you see the benefits of Granato's line juggling:

• Olofsson from Skinner
• Okposo from Cozens
• Thompson with a secondary assist on Hinostroza's goal
• Tuch from Olofsson and Mitts

At even strength, every goal had at least one assist from a forward, but none of the assists came from a scorer's usual linemate.  That's effective line juggling.

The team looks to Granato for development, but remember he too is still developing as a coach at the NHL level.

[Marvin]

I always felt that defencive responsibility is something anyone can learn.  You see a lot of excellent scorers who are very bad initially in team-relative +/- in their early years who become much better defencively in their later years.  Well-known examples who were Sabres are Gil Perreault, Rick Martin, Dave Andreychuk, Pierre Turgeon, Dale Hawerchuk, Pat LaFontaine, and Alexander Mogilny.  And that's just off the top of my head.

[Flashsabre]

The answer is YES!

[GASabresIUFAN]

Still No.  Until he coaches the team to the playoffs, the answer remains no.

[Doohicksie]

6 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

The answer is YES!

Skinns still wearing his Hurricanes shoulder pads?  😛

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Still No.  Until he coaches the team to the playoffs, the answer remains no.

Yeah, he's not there.  Yet.  But like I said, he isn't the greatest coach this year, but he's developing right along with his team.

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Still No.  Until he coaches the team to the playoffs, the answer remains no.

What coach post lindy is better then

[Marvin]

20 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Still No.  Until he coaches the team to the playoffs, the answer remains no.

By this standard, Dan Bylsma should never have been fired because he coached a team to the Stanley Cup.  And then Ted Nolan was our next best coach after Bylsma during the Dastard Decade because he has led two teams to the playoffs.

[Carmel Corn]

53 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Still No.  Until he coaches the team to the playoffs, the answer remains no.

I'll admit I wasn't always sold on DG, but how can you maintain that any HC before him should have been kept?  Even Disco Dan did not find success as a head coach post Buffalo.  For the first time in a decade, I feel we have somebody in place who can get this team to the playoffs.

[pi2000]

DG does 2 things well...

Players as individuals are developing.

His team doesn't quit.

That's great for a young team... but I don't believe he's capable of coaching them to the playoffs.   

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, pi2000 said:

DG does 2 things well...

Players as individuals are developing.

His team doesn't quit.

That's great for a young team... but I don't believe he's capable of coaching them to the playoffs.   

To the playoffs and deep into them are quite different. Granato is certainly capable of having a talented Sabres team be better than half the league.

[K-9]

3 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I think one thing that needs to be considered about Granato is that he is a developmental coach, but he is also developing as a head coach. 

The month of March is showing him putting it all together and shifting from a stance of playing to develop the players, to playing to win. 

I think the one notable aspect of this is the way he shuffled lines yesterday.  He's been doing that lately a bit in-game and it seems like he's learning when to do it and is putting good line combinations together.  For instance moving Kyle Okposo into Hinostroza's spot on the Cozens line seemed to really wake it up.  Kyle still provides solid on-ice leadership.  They line is a good speed line with Hinostroza but with Okie it's still fast but becomes tougher too.

If you look at the assists, especially the non-power-play goals, you see the benefits of Granato's line juggling:

• Olofsson from Skinner
• Okposo from Cozens
• Thompson with a secondary assist on Hinostroza's goal
• Tuch from Olofsson and Mitts

At even strength, every goal had at least one assist from a forward, but none of the assists came from a scorer's usual linemate.  That's effective line juggling.

The team looks to Granato for development, but remember he too is still developing as a coach at the NHL level.

Good stuff.