Is Don Granato the best coach the Sabres have had since Lindy Ruff?

[LGR4GM]

  On 3/6/2022 at 9:20 PM, Buffalonill said:

 Even with those players i dont see buffalo breaking out of last to be honest.

 

 

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  On 3/7/2022 at 5:15 PM, Buffalonill said:

 Is this season over yet ?  I could easily See this team finishing 2nd worst in the league.

 

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  On 3/7/2022 at 5:19 PM, Buffalonill said:

Buffalo  had Jack and sam  And still finished Last in League And we have less talent now.

 It's not impossible

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  On 3/8/2022 at 1:08 PM, Buffalonill said:

His record is worse then Ralph Krueger but lets crown him 

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  On 3/8/2022 at 1:17 PM, LGR4GM said:

You're amazing. 

In one thread you say the Sabres are less talented because Sam and Jack are gone and in this thread you crap on the coach for not polishing this turd better. 

Just say "I hate this team" and move on if everything about them you hate. 

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Less talent and we're tanking according to you but also Granato is to blame. Just amazing mental gymnastics to hate everything this team does regardless of anything else. 

[Buffalonill]

  On 3/8/2022 at 1:17 PM, LGR4GM said:

You're amazing. 

In one thread you say the Sabres are less talented because Sam and Jack are gone and in this thread you crap on the coach for not polishing this turd better. 

Just say "I hate this team" and move on if everything about them you hate. 

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    Let's make a list

  - Constantly blows Leads

- Constantly has his team unprepared

-  Constantly cracks under pressure makes the weirdest boneheaded decisions with the lineup

The list can go on and on.

 

 What thing that pisses me off about this organization they should have Luukkonen learning from  Anderson and getting ready for next year.

Nope!! Lets get his value up and ship him out and then bring him up.

 

[Buffalonill]

  On 3/8/2022 at 1:23 PM, LGR4GM said:

 

 

 

 

Less talent and we're tanking according to you but also Granato is to blame. Just amazing mental gymnastics to hate everything this team does regardless of anything else. 

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Whats the canadiens excuse way less talented but are winning now.

[LGR4GM]

  On 3/8/2022 at 1:38 PM, Buffalonill said:

Whats the canadiens excuse way less talented but are winning now.

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Well at least you're proving my point that you just want to lean into recency bias. When Montreal beats the kraken, flyers and coyotes I expect you to come running and scream! I told you so! They are better.  

Also, I love the subject change here. Conversation about Sabres coaching and talent... whataboutism! The Canadian team won some same games after they got well known coach *checks notes* Martin St.Louis

[LGR4GM]

  On 3/8/2022 at 1:31 PM, Buffalonill said:

    Let's make a list

  - Constantly blows Leads

- Constantly has his team unprepared

-  Constantly cracks under pressure makes the weirdest boneheaded decisions with the lineup

The list can go on and on.

 

 What thing that pisses me off about this organization they should have Luukkonen learning from  Anderson and getting ready for next year.

Nope!! Lets get his value up and ship him out and then bring him up.

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They were so unprepared for Toronto and Minnesota that they won. See I can do recency bias too. 

So the team is un talented and the coach sucks and we should have gotten world renowned coach St.Louis instead of letting him go to Montreal. 

[Buffalonill]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:04 PM, LGR4GM said:

Well at least you're proving my point that you just want to lean into recency bias. When Montreal beats the kraken, flyers and coyotes I expect you to come running and scream! I told you so! They are better.  

Also, I love the subject change here. Conversation about Sabres coaching and talent... whataboutism! The Canadian team won some same games after they got well known coach *checks notes* Martin St.Louis

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Im talking about the style they play and  Compete every single game now 

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:07 PM, LGR4GM said:

They were so unprepared for Toronto and Minnesota that they won. See I can do recency bias too. 

So the team is un talented and the coach sucks and we should have gotten world renowned coach St.Louis instead of letting him go to Montreal. 

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Knew that was coming.

[GoPuckYourself]

This is a super young team with the oldest goaltender in the league. I expected HC DG would have his hands full this year and next as well but it still makes my blood boil when I see games like yesterday even though I know full well I should expect it. I want to see Granato with a legit goalie+UPL and more vet defensemen to go along with the kids.

[JoeSchmoe]

The Sabres have a combined save % of 0.895. This is about as good, if not better than where they could have been expected to be based on the retreads KA acquired going into the season. Are we going to pin this on Granato?

[nfreeman]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:07 PM, LGR4GM said:

They were so unprepared for Toronto and Minnesota that they won. See I can do recency bias too.

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But after those 2 wins, with some excitement finally building and a relatively decent crowd at home just dying for the team to show them something, they came out flat vs the Kings and got shut out at home.

I am far from coming to any conclusions on Donnie, and I want to like him, but there have been a LOT of games this season where they come out with no life.  Is that not coaching?

 

Separately, in response to the point a different poster made upthread about veteran coaches installing the trap in order to squeeze out wins:

Canucks record before hiring Boudreau -- 8-17, 2.32 goals per game

Canucks record since hiring Boudreau -- 20-12, 3.12 goals per game

[Buffalonill]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:22 PM, JoeSchmoe said:

The Sabres have a combined save % of 0.895. This is about as good, if not better than where they could have been expected to be based on the retreads KA acquired going into the season. Are we going to pin this on Granato?

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Hopefully they toss him into some role in the organization and find a real coach this summer.

Buffalo  Can not go with him next year and then find another coach  When the wheels come off once again It will screw with the young guys

[LGR4GM]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:09 PM, Buffalonill said:

Im talking about the style they play and  Compete every single game now 

Knew that was coming.

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No they aren't. They have the new coach boost which will wear off and they'll regress right back to their talent level. 

So you can peddle recent events but not me, seems legit

Edited March 8, 2022 by LGR4GM
Spelling

[LGR4GM]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:23 PM, nfreeman said:

But after those 2 wins, with some excitement finally building and a relatively decent crowd at home just dying for the team to show them something, they came out flat vs the Kings and got shut out at home.

I am far from coming to any conclusions on Donnie, and I want to like him, but there have been a LOT of games this season where they come out with no life.  Is that not coaching?

 

Separately, in response to the point a different poster made upthread about veteran coaches installing the trap in order to squeeze out wins:

Canucks record before hiring Boudreau -- 8-17, 2.32 goals per game

Canucks record since hiring Boudreau -- 20-12, 3.12 goals per game

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No, I don't think players having bad efforts and no life is coaching. Eakin isn't had because coaching although we can argue Donny is at fault for giving Eakin ice time. 

[LGR4GM]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:32 PM, Buffalonill said:

Hopefully they toss him into some role in the organization and find a real coach this summer.

Buffalo  Can not go with him next year and then find another coach  When the wheels come off once again It will screw with the young guys

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You're right, we agree to disagree. Have a wonderful day. 

[Stoner]

  On 3/7/2022 at 10:08 PM, Weave said:

I’m not sure of what you are getting at with this.  Elaborate please?

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You wrote, "I don’t know how anyone can form a firm opinion of Donny G as a coach when we’ve never seen him operate in an expectation of winning environment."

You're admitting Don has not coached an NHL team whose mission is to win. So he's a huge question mark when the time comes. I would hope everyone would agree. It's an objective statement. (As is every first-time coach until they prove themselves, Cooper, Boudreau, Trotz, Scotty Bowman.) The question is whether you want such a coach at this time in the franchise's history (stench of losing, fan base about gone, image around the league etc.). I'd make the change this fall. I fully understand that's not going to happen. Nothing I want ever happens, except that time I got Lindy fired.

Some clarity at least would be nice. I think we'll have clarity on Dahlin this fall. If the roster is dramatically improved, we'll have clarity on MFHCTG. Why take the chance that that clarity won't be pretty? I also look beside TG and see a big dude and Adam Mair or Matt Ellis or some such fella.

Could we at least agree Tony should have someone with NHL chops on his staff?

[JoeSchmoe]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:32 PM, Buffalonill said:

Hopefully they toss him into some role in the organization and find a real coach this summer.

Buffalo  Can not go with him next year and then find another coach  When the wheels come off once again It will screw with the young guys

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So based on this roster (especially the goaltending), where did you have the team finishing in the standings?

What save % did you expect out of Anderson and Dell?

Who on the team has underperformed your expectations?

Who specifically could be playing better under a "better" coach?

[LGR4GM]

I think there's fair criticism of Granato to be had, Eakins role, in game adjustments. But just saying a team that has basically 1 good line would be better under say Boudreau seems to simplistic when all the variables get accounted for. 

[Buffalonill]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:38 PM, LGR4GM said:

You're right, we agree to disagree. Have a wonderful day. 

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 Do you honestly think hes going to take us to the playoffs or win us a championship?  If not then what's the point of having him

[Weave]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:41 PM, PASabreFan said:

You wrote, "I don’t know how anyone can form a firm opinion of Donny G as a coach when we’ve never seen him operate in an expectation of winning environment."

You're admitting Don has not coached an NHL team whose mission is to win. So he's a huge question mark when the time comes. I would hope everyone would agree. It's an objective statement. (As is every first-time coach until they prove themselves, Cooper, Boudreau, Trotz, Scotty Bowman.) The question is whether you want such a coach at this time in the franchise's history (stench of losing, fan base about gone, image around the league etc.). I'd make the change this fall. I fully understand that's not going to happen. Nothing I want ever happens, except that time I got Lindy fired.

Some clarity at least would be nice. I think we'll have clarity on Dahlin this fall. If the roster is dramatically improved, we'll have clarity on MFHCTG. Why take the chance that that clarity won't be pretty? I also look beside TG and see a big dude and Adam Mair or Matt Ellis or some such fella.

Could we at least agree Tony should have someone with NHL chops on his staff?

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Got it.  Thx.

I agree it is a huge risk to bring in an inexperienced head coach when the franchise is at such a low point.  The hope that does exist has to be quite tenuous at this point.

[That Aud Smell]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:41 PM, PASabreFan said:

Could we at least agree Tony should have someone with NHL chops on his staff?

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Why does this persist? Please stop.

Also, PSA: Please don't feed the trolls. Blocking a poster does not prevent you from seeing those posts when they're quoted by others.

[That Aud Smell]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:41 PM, PASabreFan said:

Adam Mair or Matt Ellis or some such fella.

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This is totally unfair on my part, but when I see Matt Ellis behind the bench, my heart sinks a little.

[Buffalonill]

Just a question for everyone if NJ fires ruff would you take him or Donny? 

[Weave]

  On 3/8/2022 at 3:11 PM, That Aud Smell said:

Why does this persist? Please stop.

Also, PSA: Please don't feed the trolls. Blocking a poster does not prevent you from seeing those posts when they're quoted by others.

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He quoted me.

[Broken Ankles]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:41 PM, PASabreFan said:

You're admitting Don has not coached an NHL team whose mission is to win. So he's a huge question mark when the time comes. I would hope everyone would agree. It's an objective statement. (As is every first-time coach until they prove themselves, Cooper, Boudreau, Trotz, Scotty Bowman.) The question is whether you want such a coach at this time in the franchise's history (stench of losing, fan base about gone, image around the league etc.). I'd make the change this fall. I fully understand that's not going to happen. Nothing I want ever happens, except that time I got Lindy fired.

Some clarity at least would be nice. I think we'll have clarity on Dahlin this fall. If the roster is dramatically improved, we'll have clarity on MFHCTG. Why take the chance that that clarity won't be pretty? I also look beside TG and see a big dude and Adam Mair or Matt Ellis or some such fella.

Could we at least agree Tony should have someone with NHL chops on his staff?

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Addressing the italics, why DG should stay next year is simply the opportunity he does succeed is greater than the chance that another “retread” finds success after another head coaching firing.  The organization already looks bad enough, and can ill afford another reason not to coach there.  A DG firing would sound alarms and unless the team is sold and there is turnover at every rank, the candidate pool would be extremely shallow.

To the bold - I’m fully on board with changes here.   

[jsb]

  On 3/8/2022 at 2:23 PM, nfreeman said:

But after those 2 wins, with some excitement finally building and a relatively decent crowd at home just dying for the team to show them something, they came out flat vs the Kings and got shut out at home.

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Just to make sure that you do understand that the Kings have a 11-1-2 road record they are currently on which includes a victory at Boston yesterday. Losing 1-0 to that team discounting the 2 empty netters is far from a flat performance albeit a boring game in comparison to the 2 previous victories.

Having said that, everyone's opinion here I guess is valid but I'm not sure how you truly judge this guy with the roster he was given. Especially since the 2 guys we were expecting to be some of our better forwards have been injured and the GKs we have. I'll await next year to make a judgement on the guy especially if KA makes a few moves to improve the roster.

[Thorner]

The other significant component when it comes to evaluating Granato would be individual player development. Another area I’d adjudge him to have done reasonably well. Am I looking at the development of a player like Cozens and searching for reasons for how Granato coached improvement out of him to a level we couldn’t have expected with other coaches? No. He’s a 7th overall pick and it’s his 3rd post draft season. He’s been decent and he’s improved - I would expect that given Cozens’ pedigree, from the average. His development doesn’t represent an outlier of any kind. 

Skinner was this good pre Krueger. Hell, DAHLIN was great year 1 before Krueger got his hands on him. Dahlin was a #1 overall. This improvement is the appropriate regression to the development mean of what one might expect without him being *actively hampered* by a poor influence. Again, Granato has done reasonably on the development front, but no more than I would expect from an average, competent coach - which I believe Granato could be, record viewed in context. This is why I want to see him with a better roster - I feel he has earned that chance. 

The only development anomaly I see is Thompson. A true bright spot. But with the overall output being terrible, the rest of the development being on track but not exceptional, I’m not proclaiming Adams a great GM, Granato a great coach, and Thompson a great player all because Tage Thompson has had a really good year.