Is Don Granato the best coach the Sabres have had since Lindy Ruff?

[nfreeman]

14 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Ultimately I guess we will disagree forever since I firmly believe it's culture change (FIANALLY!!!!) that has led to this turnaround, and you believe it was already there and simply held back by injuries. Everything factors in obviously, but that's the fundamental difference. 

 

I think it was both.  The culture change was necessary, and effective, but not sufficient to produce the results we've seen over the last 7 weeks until we got healthier and thus iced a better team.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I think it was both.  The culture change was necessary, and effective, but not sufficient to produce the results we've seen over the last 7 weeks until we got healthier and thus iced a better team.

I also think the culture change started the second Donnie took over, and continued with Adams' purge. And the way Thompson, Dahlin, Jokiharju, Mitts and other key youngsters embraced it played a bigger role than has been aknowledged.

I'm not diminishing what Tuch brought, but I don't think the transition started when he arrived, more like he cemented it.

Edited April 20, 2022 by dudacek

[WildCard]

31 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I also think the culture change started the second Donnie took over, and continued with Adams' purge. And the way Thompson, Dahlin, Jokiharju, Mitts and other key youngsters embraced it played a bigger role than has been aknowledged.

I'm not diminishing what Tuch brought, but I don't think the transition started when he arrived, more like he cemented it.

I wasn't opposed to Meatballs, but I did want someone else. I was opposed to Adams. While the jury is still out on both we can definitely see what you're describing here, which is huge. 

And I will say this for Adams, it takes a good leader to surround themselves with good advisors and follow that advice. He seems to have done that in spades. I really look forward to our next couple drafts/off seasons and seeing where he goes from there.

Edited April 20, 2022 by WildCard

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I'm not diminishing what Tuch brought, but I don't think the transition started when he arrived, more like he cemented it.

I love it when a plan comes together.

I mean really.... Kevyn does seem to know what type of player to bring in.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

No, I believe culture is a factor.

I just think it would be silly to ignore the difference in results when the team has had a healthy Anderson, Joki, Tuch, Mitts and Olofsson in the lineup compared to without.

For example, with Anderson, the team is 16/12/2 compared to 13/26/9 without. Anderson's health has also largely coincided with the health of the other 4 I listed.

 

I'm not going to argue the goalies. We probably would have won a few more games with healthier goalies but I don't think that's as big of a factor as you do. 

With Tuch, that's the leadership, culture change moment. You can't use him as an injury argument since he was in rehab when we got him. Mitts I do not see as a factor this year. You can blame the injury for setting him back perhaps, but I think he's been a disappointment. I had hoped for more based on the end of last year. Might still come, but right now he's not a big part of us winning. 

Joker and VO are valid, but now we're just down to a few guys, like most teams, and so depth is in question, but really not number of injuries imo. 

There's one other side to this you're not considering. Injuries actually opened the door for some players and for Granato to try new things. If Miller is healthy all year maybe Fitz never gets a shot and doesn't get to show them his character and grit (which helps the team and the culture). maybe they don't bring Samuelsson along as fast as they did? maybe Krebs spends the whole season in Rochester if Mitts isn't hurt? next man up became next man up and it helped the team bond. So in some ways, I think it may have helped and in the end made us better. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I think it was both.  The culture change was necessary, and effective, but not sufficient to produce the results we've seen over the last 7 weeks until we got healthier and thus iced a better team.

I can live with that view as a meeting ground, but also see the paragraph above. 

[calti]

On 9/28/2021 at 2:53 PM, Buffalonill said:

Thats weird to say when he hasn't  coached 1 season yet.

 

we make quick judgments around here..hehe

[Buffalonill]

26 minutes ago, calti said:

we make quick judgments around here..hehe

So you still want to crown him? Once we make the playoffs or have a freaking winning record then  He can move up the 0.5% out of 100 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Buffalonill

[Buffalonill]

Not trying to be   Disrespectful but I can care less about *****  stats I want   playoffs and Championships .

That's all that matters 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

Not trying to be   Disrespectful but I can care less about *****  stats I want   playoffs and Championships .

That's all that matters 

Not trying to be   Disrespectful but this is just dumb.

Name us a coach who could have gotten the playoffs out of the mess he was handed to start the year.

I want playoffs and Championships , as well, but those weren’t goals for this year, nor should they have been.

I’m a Granato fan. I think he’s a really good coach. I think playoffs should absolutely be the goal next year. I have my hopes that he can get them there.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by SwampD

[Doohicksie]

4 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

So you still want to crown him? Once we make the playoffs or have a freaking winning record then  He can move up the 0.5% out of 100 

Is he the best since Lindy?  Clearly.  But the competition isn't particularly strong.

[LGR4GM]

15 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

So you still want to crown him? Once we make the playoffs or have a freaking winning record then  He can move up the 0.5% out of 100 

I argued this all year with countless posters, if all you looked at this year was the team's record I feel sorry for you. This year was about building a team and growing the talent because everyone knew we didn't have enough to get the playoffs. We have the 1st or 2nd most games lost to injury. Every single player that matters improved and the glimpses behind the scenes show the first real team culture in 15 years. 

But here you are, focused on one and only one thing while ignoring any other context. Don Granato took a bunch of losers and developed them into a team capable of winning and believing they can all while instilling the idea that this year wasn't good enough. 

Granato is the best coach since Ruff and he might be better, time will tell. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by LGR4GM

[JohnC]

37 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I argued this all year with countless posters, if all you looked at this year was the team's record I feel sorry for you. This year was about building a team and growing the talent because everyone knew we didn't have enough to get the playoffs. We have the 1st or 2nd most games lost to injury. Every single player that matters improved and the glimpses behind the scenes show the first real team culture in 15 years. 

But here you are, focused on one and only one thing while ignoring any other context. Don Granato took a bunch of losers and developed them into a team capable of winning and believing they can all while instilling the idea that this year wasn't good enough. 

Granato is the best coach since Ruff and he might be better, time will tell. 

You hit the nail on the head with your point that every player that mattered improved. With this roster that means nearly everyone. And what is even more encouraging is that although DG is known for his ability to work with young players, the veteran players under his stewardship also demonstrably improved their play. Skinner and Okposo are good examples of that. 

When judging a coach, a core issue is how is the team responding to him? Is it getting better? Is it stagnating or tuning out the coach as the long season winds down? In this case while many teams out of the playoff race fade, this team played as if it is even more energized and determined to finish the season with a flourish. 

I'm far from anointing him as a top tier coach because it has yet to be determined how he would handle a more complete roster vying for the playoffs and seriously pursuing the Cup. However, considering the roster the coach had to work with I don't think that it is an exaggeration to say that he has done a masterful job this season.

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I argued this all year with countless posters, if all you looked at this year was the team's record I feel sorry for you. This year was about building a team and growing the talent because everyone knew we didn't have enough to get the playoffs. We have the 1st or 2nd most games lost to injury. Every single player that matters improved and the glimpses behind the scenes show the first real team culture in 15 years. 

But here you are, focused on one and only one thing while ignoring any other context. Don Granato took a bunch of losers and developed them into a team capable of winning and believing they can all while instilling the idea that this year wasn't good enough. 

Granato is the best coach since Ruff and he might be better, time will tell. 

How can you say that ?did you forget dan bylsma?

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

How can you say that ?did you forget dan bylsma?

Am I forgetting something? Did DB get the Sabres to the playoffs and I messed it?

I thought that that was all that matters.

trolls gotta troll

[Buffalonill]

9 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Am I forgetting something? Did DB get the Sabres to the playoffs and I messed it?

I thought that that was all that matters.

trolls gotta troll

He got fired after getting buffalo 80 pts , 78pts he was probably the closest to getting buffalo to the playoffs. 

 

What happen next ? 25 wins 62 points  Dumpster fire starts 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Buffalonill

[SwampD]

22 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

He got fired after getting buffalo 80 pts , 78pts he was probably the closest to getting buffalo to the playoffs. 

 

What happen next ? 25 wins 62 points  Dumpster fire starts 

I thought him being fired was stupid, as well.

Water under the bridge.

Granato is the better coach for what we need now. Will he be going forward? I guess we’ll all find out together.

[dudacek]

Whatever you think of Don, this team ranks among the most improved in Sabres history.

In terms of point percentage, last year’s team projected for 54 points.

This year’s team has 71, projects at 74 and could get to 77.

The Sabres have made a 20-point jump 6 times in their history.

Best-ever leap was 37, from 51 to 88 in ‘72-‘73 and from 76 to 113 in ‘74-75.

The others:

• ‘15-16 27 points
• ’05-06 25 points
• ’79-80 22 points
• ’87-88 21 points

[Radar]

17 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Not trying to be   Disrespectful but I can care less about *****  stats I want   playoffs and Championships .

That's all that matters 

Disagree. In context of the discussion I think more should be considered. Given the rosters I think DG is better than DB was. No disrespect for Bylsma.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Radar

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

He got fired after getting buffalo 80 pts , 78pts he was probably the closest to getting buffalo to the playoffs. 

 

What happen next ? 25 wins 62 points  Dumpster fire starts 

Honestly can't tell if you're being serious. 

Why would a team that has 71 points already, only get 62 next year? 

[mjd1001]

Talent vs Culture?  I personally still think talent wins out.  At least short term...a slightly more talented player will make your team better than one with even just a little less talent.  HOWEVER, I equate a large part of 'culture' to 'wanting to be here'.  It is obvious that Adams is a big believer in the 'wants to be here' thing.  That is big for me also.  

For me there are 2 ways to enjoy a sports season: 1.) Win the championship  2.) Exceed expectations.  Championships aren't all that matters...'enjoying the ride' is good for me as long as you exceed the expectations I had for you.   If you aren't going to win it all, exceed expectations.  And if you are going to exceed expectations, for ME, I want to feel like tall the players 'want' to be here. That is one of the biggest things for me as a fan of a team.

Edited April 23, 2022 by mjd1001

[Buffalonill]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Honestly can't tell if you're being serious. 

Why would a team that has 71 points already, only get 62 next year? 

I'm talking about when  Phil housley came 

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

He got fired after getting buffalo 80 pts , 78pts he was probably the closest to getting buffalo to the playoffs. 

 

What happen next ? 25 wins 62 points  Dumpster fire starts 

80 pts is still a solid 16 or so (more this year) out of the playoffs.

DDB was the best coach since Lindy until DM came along, but that’s a tallest midget award if there ever was one.

DDB got canned in April 2017 and hasn’t gotten another HC job since then.  

[Buffalonill]

7 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

80 pts is still a solid 16 or so (more this year) out of the playoffs.

DDB was the best coach since Lindy until DM came along, but that’s a tallest midget award if there ever was one.

DDB got canned in April 2017 and hasn’t gotten another HC job since then.  

Has to be something behind the scenes that went down to get black balled.

Looking at it now  It's pretty incredible what he accomplished with all the cancers in the room. 

[nfreeman]

29 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Has to be something behind the scenes that went down to get black balled.

Looking at it now  It's pretty incredible what he accomplished with all the cancers in the room. 

I would agree with this if he’d gotten them to the playoffs, or even close, but again — they missed the playoffs by a mile in his first year and then did worse in his 2nd year.  I don’t see an incredible accomplishment or really any accomplishment at all.