Rasmus Dahlin signs 3 years 6 Million AAV Contract with Sabres

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I'm not too worried about savings. Good teams find ways to make the money work.

Fair enough, but was merely saying I care more about savings in the next few years as opposed the savings in a fair few years from now. 

My biggest issue by far with this deal is term - I've been saying for, what, a year or so now I didn't like the idea of going bridge, no inclination to back down from that now

Edited September 22, 2021 by Thorny

[darksabre]

Just now, Thorny said:

Fair enough, but was merely saying I care more about savings in the next few years as opposed the a fair few years from now. 

My biggest issue by far with this deal is term - I've been saying for, what, a year or so now I didn't like the idea of going bridge, no inclination to back down from that now

That's fine. I just think the bridge deal is the better play here. I don't have Sam Reinhart Trauma.

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, darksabre said:

That's fine. I just think the bridge deal is the better play here. I don't have Sam Reinhart Trauma.

Well that explain it nicely, then. I definitely do.

Really, I shouldn't care - if Dahlin leaves in 3 years, undoubtedly we'd get a nice Embedded video featuring Dahlin speaking pleasantly to Kevyn Adams for a few minutes, and I'll be good to go for the next building year. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Thorny

[Gabrielor]

Should've went shorter if he didn't want to go long.

[PromoTheRobot]

48 minutes ago, Norcal said:

So. We're not happy Dahlin signed and will be there for the start of camp? 

Or we are? 

We are spinning it as "KA is incompetent." 

[LabattBlue]

I’m fine with this deal.  I still believe he has a ton to prove about his defensive zone play and his skating. 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

We are spinning it as "KA is incompetent." 

Serious question - is there a single thing KA has done in his tenure that is fair game for criticism? 

I'm not sure if it's fair to classify the reaction as "spin" when people have been consistent in their stance of wanting a long term deal for Dahlin for months and months or even years. 

[Taro T]

They screwed up the deals w/ Reinhart & Ullmark by going too short & expect they did again w/ this deal.

ST, they don't need savings on this deal.  They have a ton of cap room and the only bad contract on the books for more than a year or 2 is Skinner's deal.  

They should've given him the "overpay" today to help with the rest of the deals in the future.  When this team finally is good after wandering in the desert for 12 or 13 years, having a guy like Dahlin signed at $8.5 or $9 per would be like the Avs having the MacKinnon deal.

@darksabre has a point about his next deal ending at 32 (presumingnthey can get him to sign a LT deal in 3 years) but if they have to go bridge now, go 2 years and let that 8 year deal take him to 31.

This team is beyond frustrating and friggin' summer is now over.  Things are supposed to be getting better rather than just staying like they've been.

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Thorny said:

Serious question - is there a single thing KA has done in his tenure that is fair game for criticism? 

You can criticize anything you want but it's all speculative. Say his drafting sucks but you don't know how those players will work out. Say his trading sucks but you're not in the room making deals. Say he mishandled the Eichel situation but Jack was throwing grenades the whole time until he fired his agent. To me there is nothing to praise or criticize until things play out, other than NOT caving on an Eichel trade. And even that you can't fully judge until some time passes.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You can criticize anything you want but it's all speculative. Say his drafting sucks but you don't know how those players will work out. Say his trading sucks but you're not in the room making deals. Say he mishandled the Eichel situation but Jack was throwing grenades the whole time until he fired his agent. To me there is nothing to praise or criticize until things play out, other than NOT caving on an Eichel trade. And even that you can't fully judge until some time passes.

No but like even things that aren't speculative, like team record, gets tossed aside as not being on the GM. We say he can't be judged until things play out, but when things play out, we are then told he can't be judged on that either. 

Basically, it's: "Without a confession, we've got nothing on this guy. All purely circumstantial". How many years does that go on for? I suppose I'm the one fighting a  losing battle, here - people have been good in honestly saying he gets another few years here where winning doesn't matter. Year 4, check back?

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I'm not sure if it's fair to classify the reaction as "spin" when people have been consistent in their stance of wanting a long term deal for Dahlin for months and months or even years. 

That's nice. But what did Dahlin want? I mean you can kidnap his family and make him sign long-term that way, I suppose. Short of that you can't make Dahlin sign anything unless he's willing. I'm sure Rasmus' camp wants to see what Adams and Granato will do to fix the Sabres before they commit long-term. And that's totally fair.

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

No but like even things that aren't speculative, like team record, gets tossed aside as not being on the GM. We say he can't be judged until things play out, but when things play out, we are then told he can't be judged on that either. 

Basically, it's: "Without a confession, we've got nothing on this guy. All purely circumstantial". How many years does that go on for? I suppose I'm the one fighting a  losing battle, here - people have been good in honestly saying he gets another few years here where winning doesn't matter. Year 4, check back?

I know I'm ruining your fun. Sorry.

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

They screwed up the deals w/ Reinhart & Ullmark by going too short & expect they did again w/ this deal.

ST, they don't need savings on this deal.  They have a ton of cap room and the only bad contract on the books for more than a year or 2 is Skinner's deal.  

They should've given him the "overpay" today to help with the rest of the deals in the future.  When this team finally is good after wandering in the desert for 12 or 13 years, having a guy like Dahlin signed at $8.5 or $9 per would be like the Avs having the MacKinnon deal.

@darksabre has a point about his next deal ending at 32 (presumingnthey can get him to sign a LT deal in 3 years) but if they have to go bridge now, go 2 years and let that 8 year deal take him to 31.

This team is beyond frustrating and friggin' summer is now over.  Things are supposed to be getting better rather than just staying like they've been.

The didn't get that either, though. There is no "positive" in the deal really. We didn't get a deal for now, and we didn't get a potential deal for later. This is just another "well, he didn't completely screw us, so he's done well" thing, isn't it 

[PromoTheRobot]

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The didn't get that either, though. There is no "positive" in the deal really. We didn't get a deal for now, and we didn't get a potential deal for later. This is just another "well, he didn't completely screw us, so he's done well" thing, isn't it 

You need to explain this to me. If you mean we are paying too much now, who cares? We are not up against the cap. If you mean we didn't get a long-term deal, that's true but Dahlin probably wants to see where the team is heading first. Dahlin sees what Jack is going through (neck issues aside) and doesn't want to repeat getting anchored to a bottom-feeder.

I think it's a fair deal all around. A good bump in pay to show Dahlin the Sabres see his value and a prove-it deal to the player to show the team will start to improve.

Edited September 22, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I'm ecstatic he's here.

It's his team now and he needs to be asserting himself on the ice and in the room from day one.

Dahlin? Assert? People have talked about his physical growth. His mental growth will have to far surpass his body's in order to assert anything other than he deserves to be served a drink as a minor.

[Thorner]

10 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

That's nice. But what did Dahlin want? I mean you can kidnap his family and make him sign long-term that way, I suppose. Short of that you can't make Dahlin sign anything unless he's willing. I'm sure Rasmus' camp wants to see what Adams and Granato will do to fix the Sabres before they commit long-term. And that's totally fair.

I know I'm ruining your fun. Sorry.

You aren't - I enjoy the process of dialing in on what you've established as your niche - it's the "you can't prove a negative" high ground. Ie - you'll pick a rock up off the ground and say, since there are no tigers around, that the rock repels tigers. Adams can't be judged on anything, he has literally zero expectation, not even results - if there is a single variable we are unaware of, like you just pointed out, that variable "could" be something that prevented KA from making the deal

Maybe KA was being held at gunpoint by Ralph last year - I can't PROVE that's not the case, right? Is there a certain amount of years you'd expect a GM to build a winning team, just for reference? IE - that it would be implausible to think, even with the variables considered, that, given a certain amount of time a GM wouldn't be able to swing change?

If KA goes 3 years without building a winner, can he share blame? 5 years? 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Thorny

[Stoner]

So is this the contract y'all envisioned when he was drafted? I would have guessed at least double-digit millions a year, to go along with his double-digit Norris Trophies already won.

[Trettioåtta]

I don't care if this is $1 million over payment (which it is at most). We don't need that money over the next few years, and I would rather use it to keep Dahlin sweet than nickel and dime him now.

 

He remains an RFA at the end of the deal, so we can retain his rights and sign a long-term deal through his prime.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

You aren't - I enjoy the process of dialing in on what you've established as your niche - it's the "you can't prove a negative" high ground. Ie - you'll pick a rock up off the ground and say, since there are no tigers around, that the rock repels tigers. Adams can't be judged on anything, he has literally zero expectation, not even results - if there is a single variable we are unaware of, like you just pointed out, that variable "could" be something that prevented KA from making the deal

Maybe KA was being held to gunpoint be Ralph last year - I can't PROOVE that's not the case, right? Is there a certain amount of years you'd expect a GM to build a winning team, just for reference? IE - that it would be implausible to think, even with the variables considered, that, given a certain amount of time a GM wouldn't be able to swing change?

If KA goes 3 years without building a winner, can he share blame? 5 years? 

Not knowing what the circumstances are in 3 years, I'd agree this team better be in the playoffs by then.

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The didn't get that either, though. There is no "positive" in the deal really. We didn't get a deal for now, and we didn't get a potential deal for later. This is just another "well, he didn't completely screw us, so he's done well" thing, isn't it 

Yeah, they didn't.  But, IF it sets the stage to "show Dahlin they believe in him" or some other claptrap, am OK w/ the $'s if it puts the next negotiation in a non-adversarial position.  But 3 years was the 2nd least desirable contract length IMHO only behind a 4 year deal.

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You need to explain this to me. If you mean we are paying too much now, who cares? We are not up against the cap. If you mean we didn't get a long-term deal, that's true but Dahlin probably wants to see where the team is heading first. Dahlin sees what Jack is going through (neck issues aside) and doesn't want to repeat that getting anchored to a bottom-feeder.

Exactly my point. The are a *myriad* of things. overpaying a player being one, that "just don't matter" BECAUSE of the strategy KA has conveniently picked out. In any regular situation an overpay isn't good....fielding a truly putrid roster isn't good....but SO MANY things that make up the usual barometer for a successful organization can be literally swept under the rug by fans/the team because "well, we aren't actually trying to compete"

Said it countless times. Plenty KA is doing within the strategy makes sense, within the context of that strategy. My sticking point is that a strategy that doesn't call for winning as a priority is a bad strategy and, unfortunately, my argument is being proven in real time - do you think things like overpays, bad records, poor looking rosters, friction with franchise players, are symptoms of a good plan?

What we are seeing is the smoke that comes along with a poorly chosen pathway. 

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Dahlin? Assert? People have talked about his physical growth. His mental growth will have to far surpass his body's in order to assert anything other than he deserves to be served a drink as a minor.

Haha I chuckled. He's 21 now though 

[K-9]

54 minutes ago, tom webster said:

This is exactly what was expected by prognosticators in the know. The Sabres would have went longer term but not over $8M and Rasmus wasn’t going to accept that. Some people act like it’s strictly a team decision. Smart players who believe in themselves realize it’s foolish to sign long term unless you get a huge overpayment. For the millionth time, the cap is going to skyrocket after a couple years of correction and there are going to be a lot of unhappy, underpaid players.

Thank you. I find these “it’s Reinhart all over again, he will leave if the Sabres still suck in three years…” takes extremely myopic. Dahlin is betting on himself for a much bigger payoff down the road. It’s amazing how easy it is to forget there are two sides in every negotiation. 

[msw2112]

The team is terrible right now and presumably will be for another season or twp.  Dahlin may have wanted to see where this thing was going to go before signing a long-term deal.  Also, the Sabres have overpaid for a lot of players and been saddled with huge contracts.  Dahlin has clearly shown flashes of what he can be, but he has not been a consistent all-star caliber player as would be befitting of a #1 overall player with so-called "generational" talent.  This deal gives the team a chance to improve and be an attractive place for Dahlin to re-sign for term in 3 years and also gives Dahlin time to improve and show that he is deserving.  In the meantime, the Sabres overpaid by a bit, but they are hovering near the cap floor, so they needed to spend some money and it creates goodwill with Dahlin.  Plus, he's wrapped up before camp, eliminating another potential distraction.  So overall, a fair deal that works for everyone.

[darksabre]

43 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

So is this the contract y'all envisioned when he was drafted? I would have guessed at least double-digit millions a year, to go along with his double-digit Norris Trophies already won.

I expected him to be showing us a little more at this point, but who knows which way is up or down with this team. Is anyone good? Is everyone bad? No idea.

[triumph_communes]

Criticism here is funny