Kevyn Adams Discloses in his Presser that Eichel is No Longer the Buffalo Sabres Captain

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

The only “role” I see the Sabres having played is their collectively bargained and legally protected role in determining and recommending a prescribed course of treatment. Period. These drama queens in the media with their childish narratives and click bait headlines are absolutely clueless to the facts. 

No - not period.   It doesn’t end there.   The Sabres role is the 10 years of leadership dysfunction that agreed to tank, that hires bad coaches and GMs and them too much, and that has caused every good player on the team to leave that as soon as they have the opportunity to do so.   Eichel wants to leave because of a confidence issue with Sabres in ownership.  Reinhart left, Ullmark left, McCabe left, Risto left.   ROR longed to leave.   Hall, Bogo, Staal, Scandella all dealt at the deadline and all celebrated their leave.  
 

Name another team that has been this bad for this long?  A ten year playoff drought with no hope of making the playoffs for at least a few more.    That is the Sabres role in Eichel wanting out.  Eichel has his own issues but both sides contributed to this situation.  

Edited September 24, 2021 by Pimlach

[PromoTheRobot]

17 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

No - not period.   It doesn’t end there.   The Sabres role is the 10 years of leadership dysfunction that agreed to tank, that hires bad coaches and GMs and them too much, and that has caused every good player on the team to leave that as soon as they have the opportunity to do so.   Eichel wants to leave because of a confidence issue with Sabres in ownership.  Reinhart left, Ullmark left, McCabe left, Risto left.   ROR longed to leave.   Hall, Bogo, Staal, Scandella all dealt at the deadline and all celebrated their leave.  
 

Name another team that has been this bad for this long?  A ten year playoff drought with no hope of making the playoffs for at least a few more.    That is the Sabres role in Eichel wanting out.  Eichel has his own issues but both sides contributed to this situation.  

The current front office and coaching staff were not here for most of the last ten years. At what point can we move on and climb out? The Bills had a 17 year playoff drought and most fans were certain the hiring of McDermott and Beane would not bring an end to that streak.

Edited September 25, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Pimlach]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The current front office and coaching staff were not here for most of the last ten years. At what point can we move on and climb out?

True.  And Eichel’s could be the one of the last of the Murray era.  My point was Eichel’s angst with the Sabres is not based on Adams and Granato.  I am not defending Eichel, I am pointing out that this issue is due to longer term problems.  

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Pimlach said:

True.  And Eichel’s could be the one of the last of the Murray era.  My point was Eichel’s angst with the Sabres is not based on Adams and Granato.  I am not defending Eichel, I am pointing out that this issue is due to longer term problems.  

I don't begrudge him wanting out. I do wish he didn't make it harder.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

No - not period.   It doesn’t end there.   The Sabres role is the 10 years of leadership dysfunction that agreed to tank, that hires bad coaches and GMs and them too much, and that has caused every good player on the team to leave that as soon as they have the opportunity to do so.   Eichel wants to leave because of a confidence issue with Sabres in ownership.  Reinhart left, Ullmark left, McCabe left, Risto left.   ROR longed to leave.   Hall, Bogo, Staal, Scandella all dealt at the deadline and all celebrated their leave.  
 

Name another team that has been this bad for this long?  A ten year playoff drought with no hope of making the playoffs for at least a few more.    That is the Sabres role in Eichel wanting out.  Eichel has his own issues but both sides contributed to this situation.  

I didn’t realize you were expanding the scope of the discussion to include issues other than the stalemate over the neck injury, so I thank you for the clarification. 
 

I agree wholeheartedly with you on what got Jack and the others to this point of frustration and wanting out. Can’t blame them for that at all. But I don’t hold KA responsible for much, if any, of it. And, ironically, Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, Kane, Bogo, ROR, etc. all contributed greatly to the continued futility over the last 10 years as they were here for a good portion of it. They simply weren’t up to the task, KA recognized this and tried to accommodate their desire to get a new start elsewhere. If not for the injury to his neck, Eichel would have joined them by now as well.

[Andrew Amerk]

1 hour ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

There is a way to conduct business. He didn't do it. Nobody forces him to sign that 10m per year extension either. If he wanted out he could have signed bridge deals and Reinharted his way out. He wants to eat his cake and have it too.

This may be my end of a bad week, 7 beers in, voice talking but I'd literally murder any of you to have Jack Eichels problems and he can kiss the widest, furriest, part of my ass.

I’m looking forward to your take after 8 beers in, because I’m enjoying the one at 7 beers in. 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The current front office and coaching staff were not here for most of the last ten years.

Actually, Kevyn was.  He wasn't in high end leadership positions, but Lindy was the one who first hired him into the Sabres organization as an assistant coach and he's had several positions with the Sabres since then.

I think his "fly on the wall" experience has informed his strategy as GM.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

Actually, Kevyn was.  He wasn't in high end leadership positions, but Lindy was the one who first hired him into the Sabres organization as an assistant coach and he's had several positions with the Sabres since then.

I think his "fly on the wall" experience has informed his strategy as GM.

True, he’s been here a while and I think he served as a comfort hire for the Pegulas after the Botterrill experiment, but I never saw KA as being a part of the hockey decision making process across three GMs and three coaches since Lindy left so I don’t blame him for their ineptitude at building a good franchise. Most of the time, I thought he was running the hockey academy at Harbor Center before they made him Sr. VP of Business Admin a couple years ago. Great point about his being a fly in the wall as he’s certainly had ample opportunity to see how people relate with others in the building. I wonder how much that informed his opinion on things like character, etc. for various players. 

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Great point about his being a fly in the wall as he’s certainly had ample opportunity to see how people relate with others in the building. I wonder how much that informed his opinion on things like character, etc. for various players. 

Oh, I think the more important aspect is that he knows how to work with the Pegulas.  As a "comfort hire" (as you put it), they are comfortable with him, but I think he has his own ideas and is trying to implement them.  I get the impression he knows when and how to break things to them so that they support his ideas rather than trying to overrule him.  In that respect I think he may be totally different from ever other Pegula-era GM.  He's communicated effectively to earn their trust and now they're trusting him to make the hard decisions. 

He *does* give them lipservice in his pressers, but I think it's flattery to an extent.  He does what he's gonna do, gives the Pegulas the credit and strokes their egos.  But really I think a lot of the stuff that's happening is his and his alone.  I think he can talk to them frankly, something JBott and GMTM never got the hang of.  So it's not like he's going behind their back, he just knows how to approach them about things.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Doohickie

[Doohicksie]

12 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I think he has his own ideas and is trying to implement them.  I get the impression he knows when and how to break things to them so that they support his ideas rather than trying to overrule him. 

I want to expand a bit on this.  I don't know this for sure, but I think in the beginning KA deferred to RFK over player moves, etc.  In the early days before he had fully developed his plan for the team, he went with Krueger's vision, if nothing else to be harmonious and not cause discord.  And I bet (conjecture here) that he told the Pegulas early on that while he was trying to fulfill Krueger's vision through his player moves, he didn't think Krueger was right for the team.  The Pegulas weren't seeing it yet so he didn't make a big issue of it. 

Finally after the 12-game losing streak, the meeting in Boca where he advised the Pegulas that he was firing Krueger.  He broke it to them in such a way that convinced them that they were wrong and he was right, and perhaps even pointed out (as the fly on the wall) those moves they forced past GMs that sabotaged the Sabres' progress.  He sold them on his long term vision and what his plan to get there was.  Most importantly, they bought in.

He is effusive with his praise for them, giving them credit for what in a lot of cases are his ideas.  This isn't just vain ego feeding (although there is some of that); it's Adams expressing his appreciation for their support.  He will freely share the credit if it gets him what he wants and it makes it look like much more harmonious ownership-management partnership compared to past GMs.

Things work differently in hockey than football, but I think he's gotten the blessing of the Pegulas similar to the McBeane situation with the Bills.  They've been shown the vision and endorse it, and allow the management team to make the calls that need to be made (getting rid of the really good "players who don't want to be here").  There are enough parallels in the Pegulas' eyes that they've decided to trust Adams and now Granato in much the same way they trust Beane and McDermott.

[Weave]

The ability to persuade C level types is a skill, and not an easy one to learn.  It is highly valued in sales.  KA's position requires a fair amount of salesmanship.  Wouldn't surprise me at all if he has the personality to effectively communicate with and persuade C level types.  The fact that he worked his way up through PSE the way he did strongly suggests to me that he demonstrates that skill.

[jad1]

6 hours ago, Weave said:

The ability to persuade C level types is a skill, and not an easy one to learn.  It is highly valued in sales.  KA's position requires a fair amount of salesmanship.  Wouldn't surprise me at all if he has the personality to effectively communicate with and persuade C level types.  The fact that he worked his way up through PSE the way he did strongly suggests to me that he demonstrates that skill.

Sweet talking the Pegulas isn't anything to be impressed by.  Buffoons like Rex Ryan were able to do it.

He seems less effective in selling his vision to the team, considering the exodus of players, and that falls in line with the front office since the Pegulas took over.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by jad1

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, jad1 said:

Sweet talking the Pegulas isn't anything to be impressed by.  Buffoons like Rex Ryan were able to do it.

He seems less effective in selling his vision to the team, considering the exodus of players, and that falls in line with the front office since the Pegulas took over.

 

 

That exodus of players was job one in establishing his vision for the team. They weren’t up to the task, failed at getting the franchise turned around, and it was time for them to move on and get a fresh start elsewhere. Kudos to KA for recognizing it was time to move on from them. No selling job necessary. 

[Taro T]

9 minutes ago, jad1 said:

Sweet talking the Pegulas isn't anything to be impressed by.  Buffoons like Rex Ryan were able to do it.

He seems less effective in selling his vision to the team, considering the exodus of players, and that falls in line with the front office since the Pegulas took over.

 

 

But, in fairness, Rexy needed Brandon running interference for him.  Adams can do it all by his lonesome. 

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

But, in fairness, Rexy needed Brandon running interference for him.  Adams can do it all by his lonesome. 

That and Rexy’s act didn’t last very long with the Pegulas. 

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

That and Rexy’s act didn’t last very long with the Pegulas. 

Fortunately, neither did Brandon's.

[jad1]

22 minutes ago, K-9 said:

That exodus of players was job one in establishing his vision for the team. They weren’t up to the task, failed at getting the franchise turned around, and it was time for them to move on and get a fresh start elsewhere. Kudos to KA for recognizing it was time to move on from them. No selling job necessary. 

Nice try, but two of those flops were Staal and Hall, who Adams recruited himself.

If you want to give kudos to Adams, then recognize him for backstabbing and sweet talking his way into a GM job that has no accountability.

Nice to see him take advantage of that opportunity and drive his team to DFL in his first season.

 

22 minutes ago, K-9 said:

That and Rexy’s act didn’t last very long with the Pegulas. 

Yes, the Pegulas are 100x better at firing people than hiring them.

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, jad1 said:

Nice try, but two of those flops were Staal and Hall, who Adams recruited himself.

If you want to give kudos to Adams, then recognize him for backstabbing and sweet talking his way into a GM job that has no accountability.

Nice to see him take advantage of that opportunity and drive his team to DFL in his first season.

 

Yes, the Pegulas are 100x better at firing people than hiring them.

Where are your posts condemning the Staal and Hall acquisitions when they occurred? The consensus at the time was they were good, solid gets, even if Krueger had a big say in them. I’d love to see examples of your 20/20 foresight at the time. More kudos to KA for recognizing it was time for them to go as well. 
 

KA backstabbed his way to the GM job? I can understand sweet talking to get a job as we’ve all dine that at one time or another. But backstabbing? I don’t buy it. 
 

Well, the Sabres found their way to last place under Botterill’s guidance as well and KA largely inherited the same mess, but yeah, let’s place the blame on KA for that poor team. It’s convenient.

 

Did KA run over your dog or something? Your hatred is palpable. 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, jad1 said:

Sweet talking the Pegulas isn't anything to be impressed by.  Buffoons like Rex Ryan were able to do it.

He seems less effective in selling his vision to the team, considering the exodus of players, and that falls in line with the front office since the Pegulas took over.

 

 

You are assuming he was not ok with the exodus.  I wouldn’t make that assumption.

[jad1]

28 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Where are your posts condemning the Staal and Hall acquisitions when they occurred? The consensus at the time was they were good, solid gets, even if Krueger had a big say in them. I’d love to see examples of your 20/20 foresight at the time. More kudos to KA for recognizing it was time for them to go as well. 
 

KA backstabbed his way to the GM job? I can understand sweet talking to get a job as we’ve all dine that at one time or another. But backstabbing? I don’t buy it. 
 

Well, the Sabres found their way to last place under Botterill’s guidance as well and KA largely inherited the same mess, but yeah, let’s place the blame on KA for that poor team. It’s convenient.

 

Did KA run over your dog or something? Your hatred is palpable. 

This is what I mean about accountability.  Who give a F about what I thought about those signings?  I'm a fan with my own day job, not the GM of the Sabres. Joe Blow thinks that signing Staal and Hall we good moves, so the professional GM who signed them gets a pass.

And blame it on Krueger? Adams could have and should have fired Krueger day one.  Again, as A professional GM, Adams should have recognized that Krueger was not a quality coach and moved on from him day one.

Here's a good one, Botterill finished in last place, so why expect more from Adams?  Why hold him accountable to finish anywhere above last place?

The only thing I have against Adams is that he is an inexperienced and bad GM who has more excuses than results.

I'm a long time Sabre fan, and will be one as long as they are around.  When the puck drops, I'll be on board with the magical thinking and be rooting for the team to win every game.

And there's a part of me that wants to be dead wrong about Adams and this team.

But there is also a part of me that that is tired of the endless regression, the continual shedding of talent that's been going on for decades, the total lack of urgency not just to win, but to even compete.  I'm just over rooting for players one season, then sh###ing all over them the next.

Maybe Adams is will be the answer to all of this, but so far, to this lone fan, his results have been more of the same.

 

 

[jad1]

36 minutes ago, Weave said:

You are assuming he was not ok with the exodus.  I wouldn’t make that assumption.

No GM should be okay with an exodus like that.

[Huckleberry]

So they took away the C , do we now have to call him jak eihel  ?

 

[Curt]

7 hours ago, jad1 said:

No GM should be okay with an exodus like that.

Well, he traded most of them, so.........I guess he was.

[LGR4GM]

I'm not writing the book in Adams when we only have enough into fit chapter 1.

[K-9]

15 hours ago, jad1 said:

This is what I mean about accountability.  Who give a F about what I thought about those signings?  I'm a fan with my own day job, not the GM of the Sabres. Joe Blow thinks that signing Staal and Hall we good moves, so the professional GM who signed them gets a pass.

And blame it on Krueger? Adams could have and should have fired Krueger day one.  Again, as A professional GM, Adams should have recognized that Krueger was not a quality coach and moved on from him day one.

Here's a good one, Botterill finished in last place, so why expect more from Adams?  Why hold him accountable to finish anywhere above last place?

The only thing I have against Adams is that he is an inexperienced and bad GM who has more excuses than results.

I'm a long time Sabre fan, and will be one as long as they are around.  When the puck drops, I'll be on board with the magical thinking and be rooting for the team to win every game.

And there's a part of me that wants to be dead wrong about Adams and this team.

But there is also a part of me that that is tired of the endless regression, the continual shedding of talent that's been going on for decades, the total lack of urgency not just to win, but to even compete.  I'm just over rooting for players one season, then sh###ing all over them the next.

Maybe Adams is will be the answer to all of this, but so far, to this lone fan, his results have been more of the same.

 

 

I understand and can totally relate to your frustration as a fan. I also understand that KA is simply next in the sight line and a convenient target. I’ll need to see much more of his body of work before I’m willing to shoot. 
 

I’d be interested in why you questioned his character when you accused him of backstabbing to get the job. I honestly never heard that before and if there are articles to point to, I’d like to give them a read or a listen. As far as I know, Botterill was unwilling to make the changes the Pegulas ordered him to make and was fired for that. So who did KA backstab to get the position?