The Sabres, Eichel, NHL and NHLPA had a meeting regarding Jack

[I-90 W]

Jack must be going absolutely crazy. Every week that goes by KA looks more and more stoic and patient. It should be interesting what happens this fall if nothing has changed and people start putting microphones in front of Jack. 

[Doohicksie]

Jack has never been an inspired interview. 

[SabresVet]

 

19 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

I speculate Fish was trying to tank his value to force Sabres to offload him to a team that would allow for the preferred surgery. Sabres never wavered and Jack switches to the agent that pulled off the Duchene deal. Colorado has done well for itself after getting rid of ROR and Duchene - it’s not the end of the world. 

Easier to trade Duchene when you've got MacKinnon, Rantanen, and Landeskog on the roster.  This franchise has no one on par with those caliber forwards, making the looming Eichel trade much more crucial to future (hopefully) success.  

20 minutes ago, I-90 W said:

Jack must be going absolutely crazy. Every week that goes by KA looks more and more stoic and patient. It should be interesting what happens this fall if nothing has changed and people start putting microphones in front of Jack. 

Lot of people focusing on winning the battle and ignorant of the war going on.  KA can remain stoic and patient, but the Sabres have alienated talented players without having anyone to fill their roster slots.  

There's only a win if they receive back top end prospects who perform well and help carry this team into the playoffs relatively soon.  Absent success in the near-term, it may not matter as much.  We're going to find out though.  

[LGR4GM]

38 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

 

Easier to trade Duchene when you've got MacKinnon, Rantanen, and Landeskog on the roster.  This franchise has no one on par with those caliber forwards, making the looming Eichel trade much more crucial to future (hopefully) success.  

Lot of people focusing on winning the battle and ignorant of the war going on.  KA can remain stoic and patient, but the Sabres have alienated talented players without having anyone to fill their roster slots.  

There's only a win if they receive back top end prospects who perform well and help carry this team into the playoffs relatively soon.  Absent success in the near-term, it may not matter as much.  We're going to find out though.  

News flash, Adams could have rolled out the carpet and traded Eichel to the team he desired and it could have been all about being there for players and hugs and kisses and sparkles!  NO ONE who has other options would still want to come to the last place team in the league without a massive overpayment which Adams is obviously not doing. Players want to go to winners and it will be at least another season until we can say that.

Adams is well aware of the war, the war of "if he caves now, we can just hold out in the future when trading with Adams and he will cave again" which is the war he is fighting with other GMs. He can't do this trade wrong because it will kill the franchise further and it would give him a reputation of being a GM you can fleece. 

[SabresVet]

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

News flash, Adams could have rolled out the carpet and traded Eichel to the team he desired and it could have been all about being there for players and hugs and kisses and sparkles!  NO ONE who has other options would still want to come to the last place team in the league without a massive overpayment which Adams is obviously not doing. Players want to go to winners and it will be at least another season until we can say that.

Adams is well aware of the war, the war of "if he caves now, we can just hold out in the future when trading with Adams and he will cave again" which is the war he is fighting with other GMs. He can't do this trade wrong because it will kill the franchise further and it would give him a reputation of being a GM you can fleece. 

Adams can stand firm on his trade demands, but this waiting isn't without cost.  Add in that you can bet Eichel hiring new representation will result in a new strategy to build leverage to get him traded.  

What that leverage is remains to be seen...but it'll be more that what the Peters delivered on behalf of their client.  

[Doohicksie]

6 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

Adams can stand firm on his trade demands, but this waiting isn't without cost.  Add in that you can bet Eichel hiring new representation will result in a new strategy to build leverage to get him traded.  

What that leverage is remains to be seen...but it'll be more that what the Peters delivered on behalf of their client.  

Instead of depressing Jack's value, Brisson needs to drum up interest from potential suitors.  At this point KA is steadfast and trying to low ball him will not work.  If teams are genuinely interested in acquiring Eichel they need to come up with offers that are at least close enough to KA's ask to get a dialogue going.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Adams is well aware of the war, the war of "if he caves now, we can just hold out in the future when trading with Adams and he will cave again" which is the war he is fighting with other GMs. He can't do this trade wrong because it will kill the franchise further and it would give him a reputation of being a GM you can fleece. 

I don't totall disagree with you, but keep in mind this would only really apply if Adams was trying to trade a player and only one other team was interested.

When you are trading with multiple suitors....those other teams are not just negotiating with you, but they are kind of negotiating 'against' the other teams.   You can think Adams is a GM you can wait out and eventually get what you want without giving up too much, but if another team is after the same asset, you just can't do that because all the other team has to do is slightly beat your offer and then you lost that game.

I really don't think this is a case of a bunch of other GM's 'testing' Adams to see if he will cave.  I more think it is a matter of a bunch of other GM's being a bit afraid to be the one to pull off a trade for an injured player.

[LGR4GM]

24 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

Adams can stand firm on his trade demands, but this waiting isn't without cost.  Add in that you can bet Eichel hiring new representation will result in a new strategy to build leverage to get him traded.  

What that leverage is remains to be seen...but it'll be more that what the Peters delivered on behalf of their client.  

There is no leverage. Everyone knows the options at this point. 

[SabresVet]

15 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Instead of depressing Jack's value, Brisson needs to drum up interest from potential suitors.  At this point KA is steadfast and trying to low ball him will not work.  If teams are genuinely interested in acquiring Eichel they need to come up with offers that are at least close enough to KA's ask to get a dialogue going.

Brisson doesn't care about the Sabres at all and that's why it's necessary to take the fan hat off analyzing this situation.  His only concern is getting his client out of this dumpster fire of a franchise. 

Brisson will build leverage and Eichel will be moved at some point before the season begins.   

 

[SabresVet]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

There is no leverage. Everyone knows the options at this point. 

I have no doubt that Brisson knows how to make things happen and will generate the necessary leverage in any way possible.  

Time is not on Adams' side in this.  

[LGR4GM]

14 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

I have no doubt that Brisson knows how to make things happen and will generate the necessary leverage in any way possible.  

Time is not on Adams' side in this.  

You are welcome to that opinion but I do not agree or share it. 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, SabresVet said:

Brisson doesn't care about the Sabres at all and that's why it's necessary to take the fan hat off analyzing this situation.  His only concern is getting his client out of this dumpster fire of a franchise. 

Brisson will build leverage and Eichel will be moved at some point before the season begins.  

He cares about KA and what he will accept in trade for Eichel.  Fish proved that pressuring KA will not work.  If the selling entity won't budge he needs to work on the buyers.  KA does not need to move Jack prior to season start.  This needs to be understood by the buyers (and Brisson).  Whether Eichel is traded or not, this is a transitional year for the team with low expectations.  It would be great to transition with the return from the Eichel trade, but not necessary right now.  Although Eichel wants to be traded there is a chance (albeit slim) that he plays his contract out in Buffalo.  With that understood, any trade partners need to make it worth KA's while to acquire Eichel.  Magic beans and a bag of pucks is not adequate. 

Given that, if Brisson wants to broker a trade, he's gonna have to generate increased interest in buyers and get them to improve on their offers.

[mphs mike]

On 8/29/2021 at 9:06 AM, Pimlach said:

It is reasonable to assume that something happened at the meeting that resulted in Eichel moving on from Fish.  That makes me think that the Sabres position was solid and well understood by the people there, including the NHLPA.  

Another outcome may be the league starts looking for someone to buy the team to get rid of Pegula?????

 

[RangerDave]

1 hour ago, SabresVet said:

His only concern is getting his client out of this dumpster fire of a franchise.

I think Adams has shown that the only way for Brisson to get Eichel out of the "dumpster fire" is for his agent to pump up his value enough to the point where other teams offer Adams enough in compensation that he feels comfortable that he is getting fair value for his asset.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, SabresVet said:

Time is not on Adams' side in this.  

Start of the season is not a hard deadline.  The end of season trade deadline is.

[Pimlach]

19 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Very much doubt that, he basically told Samson not to stay with the sabres.

Maybe he did or did not, but it didn’t matter.  Sam Reinhart does not need mentorship from Eichel.  

19 hours ago, JohnC said:

Reinhart is smart enough and mature enough to make his own decision without being overly influenced by any other player. There is no doubt that both players talked about the team and their situations. But in the end Samson acted in his own best interest just like Jack is doing. 

Reinhart’s has a father that was an excellent and well respected  NHL player.  The young son knew to keep his mouth shut, play hard and put up numbers, and let it play out quietly with the Sabres by not involving the media.  
 

If only Eichel had such guidance.  

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

I'm not a doctor and I don't work for a pro sports team, but I do negotiate over $100M of contracts every year (pricing and terms) so I thought I'd mention what I find noteworthy and what would be a reasonable speculation about this meeting:

1) The fact this meeting was called in the first place indicates the team-agent-player discussions had reached an impasse and Jack's team was taking this towards the medical arbitration clause of the CBA, which is the final bit of leverage Jack's team has which doesn't put him in a situation where he is willfully violating his contract

2) The league likely found out about this stepped in to see if they could avoid a taking this to medical arbitration because they view it as a "worst case scenario" since this is not how they want superstar contract negotiations to take place because 1) it pits owners/FOs vs the NHLPA which will complicate the next Collective Bargaining agreement, 2) it's negative attention when the NHL is trying to go big with the new ESPN deal, 3) they want their best players playing the game and right now this situation has escalated where Jack won't be wowing fans with sick toe drags and pinpoint passing until Dec/Jan

 

The fact that Jack changed his agents is interesting but doesn't clarify what happened.  He may have fired them if:

1) During the league meeting Jack found out something his agents told him wasn't true, or wasn't as likely as they were making it sound

2) His agents (the Peters) did everything Jack asked them to do, but it failed and Jack changed agencies to save face and/or try something different, possibly even at the recommendation of the Peters

3) I'm not sure what type of ability the NHL or NHLPA has to step in and do something about a players representation, but even if they can pressure a change in representation I would find that highly unlikely in this case

So its really hard to tell what exactly prompted Jack's change in representation, but it's my guess that he will be traded before preseason starts and will point to the change in representation being the catalyst.

Also, kudos to everyone involved keeping this under wraps for 2 weeks.  I like to see that. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, SabresVet said:

I have no doubt that Brisson knows how to make things happen and will generate the necessary leverage in any way possible.  

Time is not on Adams' side in this.  

Brisson job is to make a trade for his client look as attractive as possible to other teams .  Doing that will bring the Sabres a better return.  I think that is what you mean by leverage.  
 

Fish played it the other way, whether he knew it or not, he made Jack look riskier than he already is.  

Edited August 30, 2021 by Pimlach

[PromoTheRobot]

4 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Jack has never been an inspired interview. 

Jack's gotta look out for Jack.

[pi2000]

I'm not sure this gets settled anytime soon.... but with each passing day I'm gaining more respect for KA.     

He's showing some serious backbone, feeling more and more comfortable with him as GM moving forward.    

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, SabresVet said:

Adams can stand firm on his trade demands, but this waiting isn't without cost.  Add in that you can bet Eichel hiring new representation will result in a new strategy to build leverage to get him traded.  

What that leverage is remains to be seen...but it'll be more that what the Peters delivered on behalf of their client.  

There is nothing Brisson can do to force Kevyn Adams into anything. The days of forcing, pressuring or embarrassing the Sabres into at trade has passed. Talented players turned off from coming here? Surprise. They were never coming here, even if Adams gave Eichel a tongue bath. So despite the dread you obviously feel, nothing has changed. Nothing. The only way Jack gets traded is for Brisson to make nice and play matchmaker.

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, SabresVet said:

I have no doubt that Brisson knows how to make things happen and will generate the necessary leverage in any way possible.  

Time is not on Adams' side in this.  

It's absolutely on his side.

[Pimlach]

8 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

I'm not sure this gets settled anytime soon.... but with each passing day I'm gaining more respect for KA.     

He's showing some serious backbone, feeling more and more comfortable with him as GM moving forward.    

I would just like to see him bring some players in that improve the team.  Very nervous about the roster when looking at C and G.  

[K-9]

There is total agreement among KA, Brisson, and Johnny on the most critical aspect of the situation and that is that he’s a star player worthy of a large return on the trade market. I mean, if we asked Brisson and Johnny, wouldn’t they have to agree? Would Brisson admit to representing a lesser player? Would Johnny admit he’s just not that good? I doubt it.
 

KA’s high ask is simply a reflection of Johnny’s perceived worth among all parties involved and the rest of the league knows that as well. 

[pi2000]

10 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

There is nothing Brisson can do to force Kevyn Adams into anything. The days of forcing, pressuring or embarrassing the Sabres into at trade has passed. Talented players turned off from coming here? Surprise. They were never coming here, even if Adams gave Eichel a tongue bath. So despite the dread you obviously feel, nothing has changed. Nothing. The only way Jack gets traded is for Brisson to make nice and play matchmaker.

Agree 1000%.

The Sabres plan is build from within, through the draft with players who want to be here.   

This releases any stranglehold the agent community had over the franchise ("buffalo tax", etc...).      The days of getting bullied by agents/players is over.