What Do the Sabres Look Like in 2 years?

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Andrew Amerk said:

It’s a reset with questionable goaltending. 

Questionable is a generous term

[Andrew Amerk]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Questionable is a generous term

Not really. It feels like they want to see what Cozens, Mitts, Dahlin, Asplund, Samuelsson, Ruotsalainen, and others can do in expanded roles this season. UPL is an extension of this. Except maybe they realize G is a more important role, and wanted to insulate him with Craig. If 6K is completely not ready, they have Dell and Midnight Toker. 

[I-90 W]

Looking better but unless Terry and Kim change their temperament, KA will be on the hot seat and we will be back to square one. 

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

All people have to do is look at the goaltending to know buffalo is tanking 

 

1 hour ago, Andrew Amerk said:

It’s not a tank. 

I think if these are the goalies KA rolls out, then KA is tanking.  

[Pimlach]

56 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Have you seen the goaltenders signed for 21-22?

Yes.

2 hours ago, Rasmus_ said:

With our offseason, you had to question this.  The Plight for Wright is in place.  We're looking to "fly" to the Wright plane. 

I hope we play to win.  We will still very likely finish bottom 5 and get a good pick.  

[Zamboni]

If KA trades all three of Dahlin, Olofsson and Skinner and gets picks, 4th liners, and over the hill cap dumps in return, AND he does nothing to improve the team throughout the season … that is true tanking. At least that’s how I see it. I believe KA is in rebuilding mode. I think “tank” is used too liberally. Sort of like how other “trigger” words are used too much. It loses its effectiveness and true meaning. Again, at least that’s how I see it.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Zamboni

[pi2000]

They'll be so bad this year it will break the spirit of the Dahlins and Cozens... resulting in permanent brain damage.   

Granato is fired over the Olympic break, KA launched after the season.   

Dahlin demands a trade.   

Power refuses to sign after his college season ends.

They sign Okposo, Girgensons and Pysyk to one year deals.   

Eveybody else is either traded or waived.   

They finish DFL, lose the lottery, draft the russia kid Miroshinchenko, who signs with the KHL.

2022-23 will feature a new GM, new HC, and 18 new roster playes plus one Jack Eichel who is still locked in a stalemate with team doctors facing a second straight season on LTIR.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

3 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

It’s not a tank. 

He and others don’t know what to really tank means.

Maybe @SwampD is right and they are not old enough to remember 2013?

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Not really. It feels like they want to see what Cozens, Mitts, Dahlin, Asplund, Samuelsson, Ruotsalainen, and others can do in expanded roles this season. UPL is an extension of this. Except maybe they realize G is a more important role, and wanted to insulate him with Craig. If 6K is completely not ready, they have Dell and Midnight Toker. 

There is one huge difference.  Cozens, R2, Samuelsson, Mitts, and Asplund have shown they can handle the NHL.  UPL hasn't shown that he can handle the AHL.  His save % was 37th in the AHL of goalies with 10 or more games last season.  

[nucci]

the words tanking or tank should be banned on this site

[inkman]

14 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Are we tanking for Wright?   Hope not.  Nothing against Wright but I have huge issues with losing. 
 

One could argue whether or not the Sabres are orchestrating a tank but I don’t think there is much argument that they aren’t going to be that good next season, giving them a beeline for a top pick.  

[Buffalonill]

11 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

It’s not a tank. 

They have done nothing to improve at all ..but we're not tanking? 

We just lost 85% of our Offense and they did nothing but trade for future assets

[Pimlach]

41 minutes ago, inkman said:

One could argue whether or not the Sabres are orchestrating a tank but I don’t think there is much argument that they aren’t going to be that good next season, giving them a beeline for a top pick.  

 This roster looks to be not very good at all. I get that, and I have been very vocal on past years of not upgrading Hutton.  Now we lose Ullmark.  It’s going to difficult to outscore teams without Sam and Jack.  We have no real star players, no depth, no experience… 
 

I just don’t want to see us playing to lose.  I’m so tired of the losing.  It looks like another wasted season. 

8 hours ago, pi2000 said:

They'll be so bad this year it will break the spirit of the Dahlins and Cozens... resulting in permanent brain damage.   

Granato is fired over the Olympic break, KA launched after the season.   

Dahlin demands a trade.   

Power refuses to sign after his college season ends.

They sign Okposo, Girgensons and Pysyk to one year deals.   

Eveybody else is either traded or waived.   

They finish DFL, lose the lottery, draft the russia kid Miroshinchenko, who signs with the KHL.

2022-23 will feature a new GM, new HC, and 18 new roster playes plus one Jack Eichel who is still locked in a stalemate with team doctors facing a second straight season on LTIR.

You jest but some of this could happen.  

Edited August 25, 2021 by Pimlach

[inkman]

30 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 This roster looks to be not very good at all. I get that, and I have been very vocal on past years of not upgrading Hutton.  Now we lose Ullmark.  It’s going to difficult to outscore teams without Sam and Jack.  We have no real star players, no depth, no experience… 
 

I just don’t want to see us playing to lose.  I’m so tired of the losing.  It looks like another wasted season. 

You jest but some of this could happen.  

Outside of Evandro Kane with money on the game, players don’t play to lose.  

[bunomatic]

11 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s a reset without goaltending 

So... a tank.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

So... a tank.

That is a banned phrase my friend.  The euphemism on the day is "reset"

[LGR4GM]

Tanking = icing the worse possible team you can by deliberately by selling off all valuable assets and playing lesser players and replacement players in key positions. 

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That is a banned phrase my friend.  The euphemism on the day is "reset"

If Ullmark was the goalie would you call it a tank? Because they actively and aggressively tried to sign him. The point of a tank is to finish last, I don't think the Sabres area trying to finish last. 

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Tanking = icing the worse possible team you can by deliberately by selling off all valuable assets and playing lesser players and replacement players in key positions. 

If Ullmark was the goalie would you call it a tank? Because they actively and aggressively tried to sign him. The point of a tank is to finish last, I don't think the Sabres area trying to finish last. 

Um, wuh?

Are you saying this isn’t a tank?

[SwampD]

Because your definition of a tank is (to use a work you like) literally what they have done.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Tanking = icing the worse possible team you can by deliberately by selling off all valuable assets and playing lesser players and replacement players in key positions. 

If Ullmark was the goalie would you call it a tank? Because they actively and aggressively tried to sign him. The point of a tank is to finish last, I don't think the Sabres area trying to finish last. 

Not trying to finish last?  They are deliberately selling off their most value assets in Eichel, Reinhart and Risto.  Once we have sold Eichel, the key center position has been downgraded.  Once they failed to retain Ullmark, (a conclusion that was probably inevitable given the last place finish, the selloff of assets and offers from contenders), KA clearly pivoted to "full reset" by replacing Ullmark and Hutton to 2 goalies who are not long fit to be called NHL goalies.  

Are they trying to finish last.  I think they absolutely are.  If they truly wanted to support the kids and give them a chance each night they would have worked harder to get a suitable replacement for Ullmark.     

[nfreeman]

33 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Not trying to finish last?  They are deliberately selling off their most value assets in Eichel, Reinhart and Risto.  Once we have sold Eichel, the key center position has been downgraded.  Once they failed to retain Ullmark, (a conclusion that was probably inevitable given the last place finish, the selloff of assets and offers from contenders), KA clearly pivoted to "full reset" by replacing Ullmark and Hutton to 2 goalies who are not long fit to be called NHL goalies.  

Are they trying to finish last.  I think they absolutely are.  If they truly wanted to support the kids and give them a chance each night they would have worked harder to get a suitable replacement for Ullmark.     

This.  Their goaltending as currently constituted indicates to me that they are trying to lose.  That's a tank, and it's not acceptable.

[JohnC]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Not trying to finish last?  They are deliberately selling off their most value assets in Eichel, Reinhart and Risto.  Once we have sold Eichel, the key center position has been downgraded.  Once they failed to retain Ullmark, (a conclusion that was probably inevitable given the last place finish, the selloff of assets and offers from contenders), KA clearly pivoted to "full reset" by replacing Ullmark and Hutton to 2 goalies who are not long fit to be called NHL goalies.  

Are they trying to finish last.  I think they absolutely are.  If they truly wanted to support the kids and give them a chance each night they would have worked harder to get a suitable replacement for Ullmark.     

It is undebatable that a rebuild is happening. But I disagree with you that the trading of Reinhart and Risto indicate a desire to bottom out in pursuit of a particular player in the next draft. Reinhart and Risto were dealt because of their contract status. They were going to be UFAs in the following year. So it made sense to trade them for whatever you could get. There is little additional information needed to be added to the probable Eichel trade. (It might happen a lot later than most people want it to be.) He doesn't want to be here and be a part of the rebuild. I understand his stance and am not critical of it. 

If this was a deliberate bottoming out do you think that Dahlin and Cozens, Joki, Mitts etc. wouldn't be placed on the market? Just because the Ullmark negotiation didn't work out that doesn't mean that the course of this franchise was going to be dramatically altered. And by the way considering what Ullmark wanted the organization made the right decision by not meeting his demands.  

Anyone who has an iota of objectivity recognizes that this year's team has a way to go before being a playoff team. But the best way and quickest way to get back into becoming a  contending team is to follow the plan that it has set out i.e. continue and stick to the rebuild with players who are bought in. There is no other way. 

[LGR4GM]

54 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Not trying to finish last?  They are deliberately selling off their most value assets in Eichel, Reinhart and Risto.  Once we have sold Eichel, the key center position has been downgraded.  Once they failed to retain Ullmark, (a conclusion that was probably inevitable given the last place finish, the selloff of assets and offers from contenders), KA clearly pivoted to "full reset" by replacing Ullmark and Hutton to 2 goalies who are not long fit to be called NHL goalies.  

Are they trying to finish last.  I think they absolutely are.  If they truly wanted to support the kids and give them a chance each night they would have worked harder to get a suitable replacement for Ullmark.     

 

19 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

This.  Their goaltending as currently constituted indicates to me that they are trying to lose.  That's a tank, and it's not acceptable.

Moving those goalposts. 

Did the sabres try or not try to re-sign Linus Ullmark? If you are tanking (deliberately making your team suck to get the best pick) why would you do this? 

You both just want to be lazy and label everything that isn't adding talent as tanking. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

This.  Their goaltending as currently constituted indicates to me that they are trying to lose.  That's a tank, and it's not acceptable.

There is a big difference between then and now.

They have kept very good players.  If they were tanking I think Dahlin would have been traded, Cozens, Mitts and any other player that is decent.  They alos would have brought in a ragtag mess of veterans to make it look good, but would not end up being good.

To me this is a reset.  Missing out on Linus is a blow, but the Sabres are not going to be good this year, so why blow a slow and steady rebuild on some goalie that is not going to be here when this thing works it's way out.  They got in some cheap veterans to hold the fort as it were intil UPL is really ready.

The Sabres are likely to be terrible this year.  There is no reason to tank.  There is also no tank prize available at the end of the tank rainbow.

I do not believe that this year is a tank year.  Of course, there is a big part of me that could never view it as such because I am so opposed to tanking.

[LGR4GM]

Why did they trade Reinhart? Your argument is to tank. They traded him because he wasn't going to sign a long term deal. They didn't want to walk him to UFA and get nothing so they traded him before that. 

Why did they trade Ristolainen? Your argument is to tank. They traded him because he has 1 year left on his deal and has wanted out for a couple years. The analytics heads assuredly were comfortable moving on from him and now they have another spot for their burgeoning defensive depth. 

Why are they going to trade Eichel? Your argument is tank. This might be the closest one you can argue that with because they control him for 5 more years and he's only 24. However it is very clear they org and the player want to move in different directions. 

Why is Ullmark not on the team? Your argument is tank. The truth is they tried everything to sign him but when he wanted over 4 years of term and around 5-6mil they walked away because they didn't think he was worth that. 

So for a team that is tanking they sure have a lot of non-tank reasons for just about everything they have done. Tanking is a deliberate attempt to finish last. The Sabres just suck and finished last with all those guys anyways so yes they are resetting their timeline to be in line with the 19-22 year olds they have. They are not deliberately bad, they are simply just bad because of years of poor decision making. This is like accusing the Bills of tanking Allen's first year as opposed to recognizing the team simply hadn't been able to finish adding the talent they wanted.