Reinhart signs with FLA: 3 @ $6.5M

[Drag0nDan]

1 hour ago, msw2112 said:

If Sam didn't want to re-sign in Buffalo after this season, better to get a 1st and a prospect than have him walk away for nothing.  They probably wouldn't have gotten as much at the deadline as a rental.  I still think he was worth more on the trade market (I think he's a more valuable player than Risto, who netted a much larger package), but I wasn't negotiating with the other GMs, so I don't really know.

As to the contract with Florida, I think this is a great deal for the team.  They get a highly productive winger and potential center in his prime at a reasonable rate.  If, at the end of the deal, both sides are happy with the relationship, they can re-sign him.  If his play is looking like it may decline due to his age, they can move on.  I think Sam could have gotten more money or term, but he may also want to bet on himself and cash in bigger in 3 years after the deal expires, if he plays well and the cap goes up.  He may also wish to look at going back to his hometown Canucks after this deal expires.

Look at it this way - he was an RFA so he's going to either sign a high 1yr AAV, or an extension.  At the deadline on the 1yr deal Buffalo can retain salary, opening up more suitors.  However you're only dealing with playoff bound teams now, so that 1st round pick will be late.  And who knows what prospect you get out of it.  I think it was probably a wash either way, other than giving some of the younger players a bit less pressure prior to his departure.  I don't see it making much of a difference.  

If they moved him, its likely his agent said there was no interest in an extension and they'd probably just go to arbitration. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

30 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Also the florida tax discount I suppose, would have been 8 mill a year in buffalo?

lol!!

This has been gone over in great detail in this thread.  And ... No, it would not be that much in Buffalo.

[I-90 W]

Who cares about the taxes, every type of fishing imaginable down there. 🎣 

[Digger]

1 hour ago, I-90 W said:

Who cares about the taxes, every type of fishing imaginable down there. 🎣 

Except ice-fishing.  😃

[Broken Ankles]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

This is good info, but I think the key point is that Florida players must pay state taxes to the states in which they play road games — so NY, Michigan and Massachusetts for divisional opponents.  NY and Massachusetts are high tax states, while Michigan is relatively low.  

Does anyone know whether the players pay taxes to the road jurisdictions for games in Canada?

In any case, the state tax rate paid by FLA players is well above zero.  If there are 41 road games in states with an average income tax rate of 5%, those players are effectively paying 2.5% in state income taxes.  That’s still a nice savings compared with 8.5% in WNY, but it’s $60K per $1MM in salary — so $390K for a $6.5MM salary — not over $1MM as Rivet apparently claimed.  

Even less.  It’s all based on working days in a state that taxes against the total days of a season, including preseason.  For example if you play the Rangers twice in New York City it’s not 2 out of 82 games but rather how many days you’re in New York versus approximately 200+ days in an NHL season which could be far less as a percent.  In addition to this any games played against Tampa, Carolina, Dallas, Nashville, and Vegas are not subject to state taxes. 

[Gatorman0519]

So much for "he is going to bolt and play for Vancouver". Clearly did not get enough of a return. A late round 1st pick and a goalie that may never play here long term for a steady productive player is a loss for us. 

[woods-racer]

9 hours ago, pi2000 said:

...which is important to player who values money over anything else.     

Consider how much Josh Allen could've saved on his $258m deal, about $15m if my fuzzy math is correct.

He obviously values winning and not money. He took a low pay contract with a good team in a  tax friendly state over losing. That was an easy call for him. I'm sure josh allen would take the same deal in Florida if the situation was the same and love to have that extra 15 million as a bonus.

[dudacek]

Do I think we got value for Reinhart? No.

But it's pretty clear we got what we could for him.

I don't get it when people think a GM got fleeced, or fleeced another in these sell-off situations.

The market is the market.

[I-90 W]

28 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

So much for "he is going to bolt and play for Vancouver". Clearly did not get enough of a return. A late round 1st pick and a goalie that may never play here long term for a steady productive player is a loss for us. 

Still say KA did great with that trade. Devon Levi looks legit. Sam would have walked anyway. 

[GoPuckYourself]

Just remember he was a part of the suck here. His stats were good but never was good enough to lead us into the playoffs. 

[I-90 W]

7 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

Just remember he was a part of the suck here. His stats were good but never was good enough to lead us into the playoffs. 

Exactly. I wouldn’t put it on him for not leading us to the playoffs, but a player like him need a lot of complimentary pieces. We saw him have his best season towards the end but he’s soft. I know many here get upset when someone says that but it’s true. He was part of the old core. Time to turn the page. 

[GoPuckYourself]

38 minutes ago, I-90 W said:

Exactly. I wouldn’t put it on him for not leading us to the playoffs, but a player like him need a lot of complimentary pieces. We saw him have his best season towards the end but he’s soft. I know many here get upset when someone says that but it’s true. He was part of the old core. Time to turn the page. 

I would love it if we got bigger and tougher on both offense and defense. I want to be one of those teams that everyone hates playing us like Boston. We tried the finesse skilled players and it didn't work out, how about gritty- tough players which I'm hearing Isaac Rosen who we picked up in the 1st round is that guy so good start if true.

Edited August 13, 2021 by GoPuckYourself

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, GoPuckYourself said:

Just remember he was a part of the suck here. His stats were good but never was good enough to lead us into the playoffs. 

This always blows my mind.  The fact that he scored more goals every season is *not* why we didn't make the playoffs.  He did his part.

[GoPuckYourself]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

This always blows my mind.  The fact that he scored more goals every season is *not* why we didn't make the playoffs.  He did his part.

It shouldn't blow your mind, we never made the playoffs with Sam Reinhart on our roster, he was part of the problem, what are you mind blown about? He didn't do his part or we'd be a playoff team, what am I missing here? I'm not blaming Sam Reinhart by himself but this roster with him on it since 2014 has been a basement dweller, how can you argue that?

[dudacek]

57 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I would love it if we got bigger and tougher on both offense and defense. I want to be one of those teams that everyone hates playing us like Boston. We tried the finesse skilled players and it didn't work out, how about gritty- tough players which I'm hearing Isaac Rosen who we picked up in the 1st round is that guy so good start if true.

I don't think Rosen is who you think he is. He's fast and fearless, but he's scrawny.

[Zamboni]

Oh bloody hell. The ol tired highly inaccurate strawman argument that one player can make an entire team get or not get into the playoffs. Aka “leading them” 

Yawn… 

Yea, only because of Vasilevskiy leading, TB got into the playoffs 

Yea, only because of Matthews leading, TOR got into the playoffs 

Yea, only because of Fleury leading, VGK got into the playoffs 

Yea, only because of Weber leading, MTL got into the playoffs 

Yea, only because of Reinhart not leading, BUF didn’t get into the playoffs 

😂

GTFO with that disconnected from reality “only reason leading/not leading a team” garbage. Good grief …

Team sport. Team success. Team failure. Equally responsible. 
 

 

[GoPuckYourself]

55 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don't think Rosen is who you think he is. He's fast and fearless, but he's scrawny.

I really don't know much about him, I read that he was smaller but a scrappy kid who fights for the puck in the corners and along the boards. We need more of those guys, this team has been lazy for some time now in both ends.

[Hoss]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Do I think we got value for Reinhart? No.

But it's pretty clear we got what we could for him.

I don't get it when people think a GM got fleeced, or fleeced another in these sell-off situations.

The market is the market.

If the takeaway after the Eichel trade is "we got what we could for him" I think this board will blow up.

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

Do I think we got value for Reinhart? No.

But it's pretty clear we got what we could for him.

I don't get it when people think a GM got fleeced, or fleeced another in these sell-off situations.

The market is the market.

The market is influenced by timing and leverage - we had neither.   Everyone knew he wanted out, and we traded him when we had to, or else he is a deadline dump.  Considering this, a good prospect and a #1 is probably not too bad.  

Edited August 13, 2021 by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

So much for "he is going to bolt and play for Vancouver". Clearly did not get enough of a return. A late round 1st pick and a goalie that may never play here long term for a steady productive player is a loss for us. 

Let wait and see what Levi does before we judge the trade.  I feel he may end up the best player in the trade.  

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I would love it if we got bigger and tougher on both offense and defense. I want to be one of those teams that everyone hates playing us like Boston. We tried the finesse skilled players and it didn't work out, how about gritty- tough players which I'm hearing Isaac Rosen who we picked up in the 1st round is that guy so good start if true.

Bigger and tougher is fine.  But the guys that are gone from last year are all pretty much big.  Some were even tough.

Better & a cohesive team is what they should be working towards.  This past season, when Eichel was battling injury on day 1, their only 2 defensive defensemen with any pro hockey prior experience both broke, and their only NHL starting caliber goalie also was out for a significant stretch, was the ONLY one in the Eichel era that they could actually put a full rosters worth of NHLers on the ice at the same time.

Now, after a nightmarish season of just about everything that could go wrong actually going wrong, rather than keeping the key pieces they had and continuing to build around them, they're tearing down AGAIN.  

You ask for a team like the Bruins; would rather have a team like the Bolts.  One that actually wins.  But we're at least 2 and likely 3-4 years from even being close to that.  They didn't need to take this step back.  And though individually most of Adams moves last off-season seemed positive, his inability to get a goalie upgrade which was clearly a mistake at the time doomed the season.  Even with Hutton costing them games early and the now despised head coach running the show they were an NHL 0.500 through the 1st 10 & still there or just off that pace until their own shutdown.  Then the wheels fell off.  With another goalie those wheels don't have to fall off and if the Sabres are actually showing signs of competing maybe Adams doesn't think that his original instinct that Eichel needs to go is correct & they actually get to a spot where they don't need to sell off Reinhart for a way off in the future return.

The only player this team absolutely was going to lose was McCabe.  Dumping Reinhart in hopes of some vision of Boston-west seems imprudent when simply adding pieces rather than subtracting could have them on a Tampa-north trajectory.  IMHO, YMMV.

[JohnC]

34 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Bigger and tougher is fine.  But the guys that are gone from last year are all pretty much big.  Some were even tough.

Better & a cohesive team is what they should be working towards.  This past season, when Eichel was battling injury on day 1, their only 2 defensive defensemen with any pro hockey prior experience both broke, and their only NHL starting caliber goalie also was out for a significant stretch, was the ONLY one in the Eichel era that they could actually put a full rosters worth of NHLers on the ice at the same time.

Now, after a nightmarish season of just about everything that could go wrong actually going wrong, rather than keeping the key pieces they had and continuing to build around them, they're tearing down AGAIN.  

You ask for a team like the Bruins; would rather have a team like the Bolts.  One that actually wins.  But we're at least 2 and likely 3-4 years from even being close to that.  They didn't need to take this step back.  And though individually most of Adams moves last off-season seemed positive, his inability to get a goalie upgrade which was clearly a mistake at the time doomed the season.  Even with Hutton costing them games early and the now despised head coach running the show they were an NHL 0.500 through the 1st 10 & still there or just off that pace until their own shutdown.  Then the wheels fell off.  With another goalie those wheels don't have to fall off and if the Sabres are actually showing signs of competing maybe Adams doesn't think that his original instinct that Eichel needs to go is correct & they actually get to a spot where they don't need to sell off Reinhart for a way off in the future return.

The only player this team absolutely was going to lose was McCabe.  Dumping Reinhart in hopes of some vision of Boston-west seems imprudent when simply adding pieces rather than subtracting could have them on a Tampa-north trajectory.  IMHO, YMMV.

In general, I agree with you that there were alternative strategies to take that would have (possibly) changed the course of this franchise. As you point out some key decisions were made that didn't work out and contributed to this downward spiral. As you noted just maybe if there was a different coach, an upgrade in a backup goalie, Ullmark being injured and also forgotten the effect from Covid that not only sidelined players but also had a lingering effect during the season. Those are a lot of ifs. Our roster and talent pool within the system wasn't deep enough to overcome those challenges . On the other hand the problems we faced are the same unanticipated problems that many teams face during the season. When your roster and system is thin and flimsy it doesn't take much for house to collapse when some replaceable parts can't be replaced. That's the lesson that needs to be learned. The talent base needs to be increased and spread out more. 

[Drag0nDan]

10 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

So much for "he is going to bolt and play for Vancouver". Clearly did not get enough of a return. A late round 1st pick and a goalie that may never play here long term for a steady productive player is a loss for us. 

At the deadline you probably get the same return.  There would be more teams available since you can retain salary, and it's possible there is a bidding war for his services.  However the teams adding him are playoff teams so the pick would be late, and the deadline market can also be a bad thing.  As teams begin adding players for the run, your number of suitors dries up and the offers get worse and worse.  Gaudreau could be available, Kessel, Rakell, Hertl... If they run out of suitors they might end up with even less.  I also think they look at Levi as a good prospect.

[LGR4GM]

11 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

So much for "he is going to bolt and play for Vancouver". Clearly did not get enough of a return. A late round 1st pick and a goalie that may never play here long term for a steady productive player is a loss for us. 

You could have probably argued this if Buchnevich hadn't been traded for less. 

but again, Drury is a genius and Adams is bad. 

[Doohicksie]

10 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said:

we never made the playoffs with Sam Reinhart on our roster, he was part of the problem,

The logic here is just.... bad.

We never made it with Cozens or Mitts or Dahlin either.  Trade them all?

7 hours ago, Hoss said:

If the takeaway after the Eichel trade is "we got what we could for him" I think this board will blow up.