Can the Sabres Franchise Survive Another Tank/Rebuild?

[nucci]

58 minutes ago, fiftyone said:

And this is a problem. Excuse the holier-than-thou approach but.. if you hop off the wagon when things are tough, don't bother coming back when they're good again.

agree but this is a bit different than just being a tough spot. This has been on going since the Pegula's bought this team

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

While we are passionate fans on this site, I have and am giving serious consideration to throwing in the towel on this franchise.  I've been a passionate fan since their inaugural season, but this past season combined with KA's poor management and the new tank roster with the worst goaltending tandem of any team I can ever remember has shaken my faith to the core.  I truly have had enough.

I wonder if I feel this way, how do most others feel.  My guess is the team will be giving tickets away all season just to get anyone to come to a game.  I'm certainly not going to pay to watch through a streaming service.  

If people continue to jump ship, will there be anything left in 2-3 years?

I suggested to another poster who was battling the same Sabre blues to take a pause from following the team if it was making him so angry and frustrated. Those comments were misinterpreted that I was forcing the poster out. That was not the case and not my intention. When someone has reached their exasperation limit then it is time to take a break and use the interlude to refresh oneself. 

I'm not looking at this season from a typical perspective of the standings. That's not going to be my measurement of success. My attention is going to be on the young players.  I will be watching to see how they advance in their game. There are a number of young players who I consider in the upswing category. Players such as Dahlin, Joki, Cozesn, Mitts, Bjork, Apslund, Thompson, Arttu, Olofsson, Samuelsson and Bryson with maybe others if the probable impending Jack trade brings in a return. On top of this list is there is another retinue of players who a year or two away from moving up the ranks. Those in that category are UPL, Quinn, Peterka, Power and maybe a few more. When you add both grouping you can see the nucleus of a core forming that refashions the roster.  

Where I disagree with you is in your assessment of KA. He has laid out a roadmap to remake this roster and in my estimation that is exactly what he is doing. Contrary to your view I believe that Krueger was more influential in addressing the last year's roster than was KA.

There are many things about the recent history of this bedraggled franchise to complain about. If you allow yourself to be captured by the past problems it will spill over and contaminate your view on some of the positive things that are occurring. There is nothing wrong in taking a break in order to refill the tank that has been emptied. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, fiftyone said:

And this is a problem. Excuse the holier-than-thou approach but.. if you hop off the wagon when things are tough, don't bother coming back when they're good again.

This is the problem?   Hardly.   The problem is the team has been very bad for a historically long time. 
 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, fiftyone said:

And this is a problem. Excuse the holier-than-thou approach but.. if you hop off the wagon when things are tough, don't bother coming back when they're good again.

Get over yourself.  There is nothing serious about being a Sabres fan.  It is an entertainment source.  Nothing more.  It isn't like you're walking away from being a made man or quitting the Hell's Angels.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, fiftyone said:

And this is a problem. Excuse the holier-than-thou approach but.. if you hop off the wagon when things are tough, don't bother coming back when they're good again.

Happens with the Bills all the time. People sweetie they were done after 17 years and no playoffs. Start winnng, draft the greatest QB in a generation and look what happens.

[JKB1646]

I will always root for the Crest on the front and NOT the name on the back! It may not be fun now but what goes around comes around. Raymond Bourque was a Bruin for 21 yrs and they pretty much stunk that entire time.

[Zamboni]

I never get THAT down on a team or a loss to want to stop watching or following. I’ve been a STH since 2004 and will continue to be, unless I move out of the WNY area, or can no longer afford it financially, or die. 
 

I mean do people get THAT mad over a sport? There is mad, on a surface, shallow level. But it usually goes away after like 10 mins. For me it does. Bigger more important things to be that upset over than … a game.
And then there is a deep almost uncontrollable mad that you need to calm with a lot of alcohol or throw and break stuff. Or you stay mad for hours or days. I mean, that’s just unhealthy and unhinged. Kinda scary bad IMO. There is fanatic. There is passionate. Then there is just ugly unhealthy rage reaction to a game.

I love the sport of hockey first. Second is the Sabres. If the Sabres left the area, how many would go support Niagara purple eagles, The Buffalo Beauts, Golden Griffins, Amerks etc … I would more than I do now. I go to about 8 (non Sabres) hockey games a season. Usually (not always) of those teams I mentioned. And roughly 12-15 Sabres games a season. So I enjoy the sport first. So, as bad as a local hockey team might be, I never considered not going to a game. That’s my entertainment. Not bars, not casinos, not drugs, not another sport. It’s hockey. And it always will be. 

[Andrew Amerk]

3 hours ago, jahnyc said:

In my mind, the question really boils down to whether ownership is committed and supportive of getting it right, even if it takes more years to get there.  More years of rebuilding will potentially see declining attendance and interest, but both will come back in the future if the team wins.  If the Pegulas do want to sell the team that can lead to significant uncertainty for the future of the rebuild and the team.  

The problem with the bolded, is that now you are wading into a 10-15 year gap where the team has been terrible. Kids are not kids forever, and not many kids want to be die-hard fans of a team that doesn’t win for that long. It’s different for the Bills to be bad for that long - football is the most popular sport in America. Hockey, not so much. It’s possible that the Sabres lost an entire generation of young fans. 

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I actually think for me that the bottoming out finishes with the Eichel trade. That makes ripping off the scab complete.

It's not hard for me to find hope in change, in knowing there's a course and watching them execute (or not). Adams has hit the reset button hard enough to virtually make this an expansion team and that will hold the interest for the part of me that spends an inordinate amount of time playing fantasy coach and general manager on Sabrespace.

The part of me that enjoys watching good hockey will be more challenged, but speed and effort can make a difference. I will find it very easy to root for underdog stories like Ruotsalanien, Mittelstadt, Thompson, Samuelsson, Anderson, Quinn, Girgensons, Okposo and Granato as they try to prove people wrong.

And I look forward to watching the obvious talents of Dahlin and Cozens blossom as I scour the games and the internet for reasons to fool myself into seeing signs that Adams' plan is working.

Don't blame those who are tuning out one bit though. It's been a long, hard slog.

Except that expansion teams are immediately better than the Sabres. 

[fiftyone]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Get over yourself.  There is nothing serious about being a Sabres fan.  It is an entertainment source.  Nothing more.  It isn't like you're walking away from being a made man or quitting the Hell's Angels.

You're right, I probably worded that poorly.

It doesn't bother me any if people treat sports and their teams that way. It just feels a lot less fulfilling to me if you only participate in the ups and pretend like you don't care on the downs. How good can the ups really be if you view it like that?

 

[Curt]

3 hours ago, fiftyone said:

And this is a problem. Excuse the holier-than-thou approach but.. if you hop off the wagon when things are tough, don't bother coming back when they're good again.

This is silly, and definitely not an idea that anyone actually associated with the business would remotely agree with.  It’s an entertainment business.  People make choices about how to invest their time and money.

“If you don’t like this product when it’s *****, don’t bother supporting it when it’s good.”

Can’t get in line with that line of thought.

[Andrew Amerk]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

This is silly, and definitely not an idea that anyone actually associated with the business would remotely agree with.  It’s an entertainment business.  People make choices about how to invest their time and money.

“If you don’t like this product when it’s *****, don’t bother supporting it when it’s good.”

Can’t get in line with that line of thought.

I’ve been supporting a team that has been somewhere between bad and mediocre since the mid-80’s, aside from a couple years in the late 90’s and a couple seasons around 2006.

Last season was the first time since the mid-90’s that I proactively missed games on TV. I am probably not going to watch any this season. I have other things that I’d rather invest my time, money, and emotions in for now. My Sabres basement man-cave isn’t going anywhere. 

[fiftyone]

3 minutes ago, Curt said:

This is silly, and definitely not an idea that anyone actually associated with the business would remotely agree with.  It’s an entertainment business.  People make choices about how to invest their time and money.

“If you don’t like this product when it’s *****, don’t bother supporting it when it’s good.”

Can’t get in line with that line of thought.

I'm not talking about deciding to not pay money to see the product (go to games, buy jerseys, even spend large amounts of time to watch). That certainly happens and I can sympathize, I do it too.

But to go root for another team when yours is struggling, then come back when it's not is a foreign concept to me. That's how I took the scenario that the OP laid out, and that's why my original comment discussed sticking with one team as opposed to changing teams.

[Curt]

16 minutes ago, fiftyone said:

You're right, I probably worded that poorly.

It doesn't bother me any if people treat sports and their teams that way. It just feels a lot less fulfilling to me if you only participate in the ups and pretend like you don't care on the downs. How good can the ups really be if you view it like that?

 

I think you (me too I guess) just care about it more than a lot of fans.

If someone doesn’t care that much, why would they spend their time on it when the team is bad and it’s not that much fun?  They aren’t pretending to not care.  They just really don’t care.  When it’s good, it’s fun for them and they participate.  When it’s bad, it’s not and they don’t bother.  They find  more enjoyable things to do.

[fiftyone]

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

I think you (me too I guess) just care about it more than a lot of fans.

If someone doesn’t care that much, why would they spend their time on it when the team is bad and it’s not that much fun?  They aren’t pretending to not care.  They just really don’t care.  When it’s good, it’s fun for them and they participate.  When it’s bad, it’s not and they don’t bother.  They find  more enjoyable things to do.

That's fair I guess, I just don't know how to be a sports fan that way.

And again, losing interest in the (Sabres) wasn't really my target -- it was choosing another team to root for and then coming back to the Sabres. Semantics, maybe.

[Curt]

12 minutes ago, fiftyone said:

I'm not talking about deciding to not pay money to see the product (go to games, buy jerseys, even spend large amounts of time to watch). That certainly happens and I can sympathize, I do it too.

But to go root for another team when yours is struggling, then come back when it's not is a foreign concept to me. That's how I took the scenario that the OP laid out, and that's why my original comment discussed sticking with one team as opposed to changing teams.

Oh, I didn’t get that.  No one said anything about becoming a fan of another team.

If I truly got fed up enough, I could maybe follow another team, maybe pick a good team in the west to support and just kind of cool it on the Sabres.  I’ve considered it, but I also know it wouldn’t be anything near what I feel for the Sabres, and I wouldn’t really consider it “switching” teams.  It would just be that I needed a Sabres break and am trying to enjoy hockey in a different way.

So far, when I’ve needed a break, I’ve just watched more basketball.  Go Hawks!

Edited August 10, 2021 by Curt

[Norcal]

The Buffalo Sabres will be fine

[HoosierDaddy]

The NHL is a gate driven league, so the question really is “will the Sabres sell enough tickets to remain financially afloat during the rebuild?” Looking at historical attendance records, Buffalo turns out for the Sabres win or lose. Or at least the tickets get sold, and that’s all the really matters.  Even in bad years, the Sabres sell over 90% of their tickets where as the Ducks, Panthers and Coyotes often fall below 70%. It’s been almost 2 years since people could attend a live hockey game. I think hockey-crazy Buffalo will turn out in sufficient numbers to keep the team above water financially.

Edited August 10, 2021 by HoosierDaddy

[cgang]

No.  I love sabrespace and i don't profess to know anything about hockey.  Everything I know I know from this board. This franchise cannot survive another rebuild, not with the Bills Stadium negotiations, etc. on the horizon.

[Stads]

My passion is always there. I'm not going anywhere unless they move. It sucks right now and it may not get better for a while. I'll always go into each year thinking "this is the year". It's what I did with the Bills during their drought. The NHL is set up to make a big leap in a short amount of time. Do I think we're in position to make that leap? Hell no but I'll lower those expectations when necessary and look for something to be positive about. If they never turn it around, I guess I'll start using crystal meth 🤪

[7+6=13]

I don't really understand why most are so down.  I fully understand where we are and that there's a lot of losing that will happen this season and likely the next.  But I'm excited about where we are and that we are able to start again. 

I'm happy that we didn't sign Linus and that we traded Risto and Sam.  Nothing against them, it just simply didn't make sense.   

We get to watch young players and see "what we have" in them - finally have a decent pipeline, with goalies - only one bad contract - Eichel that will bring even more to the fold - and plenty of cap.

It's going to be fun watching this opportunity we have again to build a team.

Edited August 10, 2021 by 7+6=13
Added

[Zamboni]

13 minutes ago, YouDigg said:

I was looking at the current Sabres roster today and I don’t even know over half the players anymore.  Most of the returning players are either young and haven’t reached their potential (Olofsson, Dahlin, Cozens, etc.) or are older underachievers (Skinner, Okposo, etc).  90% of the players we added in free agency are scrubs.  What are we rooting for at this point?  The logo?  The team colors?

I truly don’t understand why any of you would spend a penny of your hard-earned money on single game tickets, let alone season tickets, to watch this awful AHL-caliber team finish dead last AGAIN next season.  We have NO GOALTENDER.  We haven’t even spent to the FLOOR of the salary cap. You are paying NHL ticket prices to watch the Rochester Americans. 

Save yourselves the misery and skip next season completely.  Check in again on the Sabres in 2022 and prepare to skip next season too.  You all deserve so much better from this team.  In the meantime, put your full energy into rooting for the Bills.  If you must root for a hockey team, then casually follow the teams that our former players got traded to or signed with (Flyers, Panthers, Blackhawks, etc). 

Um no thanks 
 

you spend your time and money how you want. And no one should be telling you what to do. And returning that respect would be nice 👍🏼
 

oh, and Olofsson isn’t “young” and he HAS reached his potential. 

[Gatorman0519]

This has been the most incredibly, dysfunctional long term situation I can remember in any sports.  The NY Jets are close.  The fact we have no homegrown goalies on the roster, let alone a starter, is mind-blowing. I certainly wont be spending money on them. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, YouDigg said:

I was looking at the current Sabres roster today and I don’t even know over half the players anymore.  Most of the returning players are either young and haven’t reached their potential (Olofsson, Dahlin, Cozens, etc.) or are older underachievers (Skinner, Okposo, etc).  90% of the players we added in free agency are scrubs.  What are we rooting for at this point?  The logo?  The team colors?

I truly don’t understand why any of you would spend a penny of your hard-earned money on single game tickets, let alone season tickets, to watch this awful AHL-caliber team finish dead last AGAIN next season.  We have NO GOALTENDER.  We haven’t even spent to the FLOOR of the salary cap. You are paying NHL ticket prices to watch the Rochester Americans. 

Save yourselves the misery and skip next season completely.  Check in again on the Sabres in 2022 and prepare to skip next season too.  You all deserve so much better from this team.  In the meantime, put your full energy into rooting for the Bills.  If you must root for a hockey team, then casually follow the teams that our former players got traded to or signed with (Flyers, Panthers, Blackhawks, etc). 

You lost me when you said root for the Flyers etc....  Not in a million years.  I'm much more likely to root for the former Atlanta Thrashers (aka the Winnipeg Jets). 

[thewookie1]

Yes, the Sabres will survive as long as they even can give us a semblance of entertainment because many of us are addicts. For better or for worse. 

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, YouDigg said:

I was looking at the current Sabres roster today and I don’t even know over half the players anymore.  Most of the returning players are either young and haven’t reached their potential (Olofsson, Dahlin, Cozens, etc.) or are older underachievers (Skinner, Okposo, etc).  90% of the players we added in free agency are scrubs.  What are we rooting for at this point?  The logo?  The team colors?

I truly don’t understand why any of you would spend a penny of your hard-earned money on single game tickets, let alone season tickets, to watch this awful AHL-caliber team finish dead last AGAIN next season.  We have NO GOALTENDER.  We haven’t even spent to the FLOOR of the salary cap. You are paying NHL ticket prices to watch the Rochester Americans. 

Save yourselves the misery and skip next season completely.  Check in again on the Sabres in 2022 and prepare to skip next season too.  You all deserve so much better from this team.  In the meantime, put your full energy into rooting for the Bills.  If you must root for a hockey team, then casually follow the teams that our former players got traded to or signed with (Flyers, Panthers, Blackhawks, etc). 

Go back to your Leafs forum.