Goaltending this season and Beyond

[Drag0nDan]

12 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Not only can the Sabres set the NHL record for consecutive seasons missing the playoffs, but they could also become the first team in NHL history to finish 32nd. 

I'm sure they will be bad... but I'm strangely optimistic that they won't finish dead last.  I think the defense is actually improved, and while they lost ullmark - the goalies who will actually be playing are an improvement over Hutton and the others. 

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I'm sure they will be bad... but I'm strangely optimistic that they won't finish dead last.  I think the defense is actually improved, and while they lost ullmark - the goalies who will actually be playing are an improvement over Hutton and the others. 

Well, Arizona seems determined to be the 1st to get to 32, so it will take some truly putrid hockey to outdo them.  But even getting to 29 seems to be a tough slog for the kids.  30 or 31 seem to be likely.

Realizing that many here disliked Ristolainen, but he looked good with McCabe who is also gone and with the additional absence of Borgen there is only 1 defensive D-man possibly on the horizon among those currently under contract and that guy is a rookie.

Anderson will hit a wall at some point, could very likely be this season.  If he does, the rest of the stable has huge question marks & even if he doesn't he very likely will play less than 40 games effectively.  Are they better than Hutton?  Some of them might be, none definitely are.  And would take Hutton over Houser and likely Dell at this point.

 

[Drag0nDan]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Well, Arizona seems determined to be the 1st to get to 32, so it will take some truly putrid hockey to outdo them.  But even getting to 29 seems to be a tough slog for the kids.  30 or 31 seem to be likely.

Realizing that many here disliked Ristolainen, but he looked good with McCabe who is also gone and with the additional absence of Borgen there is only 1 defensive D-man possibly on the horizon among those currently under contract and that guy is a rookie.

Anderson will hit a wall at some point, could very likely be this season.  If he does, the rest of the stable has huge question marks & even if he doesn't he very likely will play less than 40 games effectively.  Are they better than Hutton?  Some of them might be, none definitely are.  And would take Hutton over Houser and likely Dell at this point.

 

Last season was just such a mess, and they played in probably the toughest division.  They were ill equipped for the condensed schedule with their goaltending injuries and issues.  They had the 2 week covid shut down that seemed to sap several players who looked terrible after the long layoff.  Injuries all around the roster.  Career low shooting percentages for Hall and Eichel.  RK system was a disaster.  Just an insanely unlucky season across the board.  And they only finished 8 points behind the devils, 6 points behind the ducks.  

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Last season was just such a mess, and they played in probably the toughest division.  They were ill equipped for the condensed schedule with their goaltending injuries and issues.  They had the 2 week covid shut down that seemed to sap several players who looked terrible after the long layoff.  Injuries all around the roster.  Career low shooting percentages for Hall and Eichel.  RK system was a disaster.  Just an insanely unlucky season across the board.  And they only finished 8 points behind the devils, 6 points behind the ducks.  

And from the roster that finished 8 points behind the Devils & 6 points behind the Ducks they've removed Montour, Ristolainen, McCabe, Borgen, Reinhart, & Ullmark; & will likely remove Eichel as well.  Yes, Eichel, McCabe, & Ullmark missed significant portions of last season, but at least 2 & likely all 3 will miss all of this season for them.  That whole list is a lot of talent walking out the door.

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And from the roster that finished 8 points behind the Devils & 6 points behind the Ducks they've removed Montour, Ristolainen, McCabe, Borgen, Reinhart, & Ullmark; & will likely remove Eichel as well.  Yes, Eichel, McCabe, & Ullmark missed significant portions of last season, but at least 2 & likely all 3 will miss all of this season for them.  That whole list is a lot of talent walking out the door.

Everything you said about the subtractions creating a talent deficit is true. But if you review the players on your departure list there are factual reasons why they are no longer here. Montour, Risto, McCabe and Reinhart were in contract years where they were not going to re-sign. So even if the team wanted these players they made individual decisions to move on. So they were dealt for whatever could be gotten back. Even if the return was not commensurate with the talent it was better to get something than retaining in the short term for nothing in the near future. With respect to Ullmark the organization made the right decision not to give him what he wanted. Keeping him at a gilded contract level would have been a poor value decision. And although I like Borgen he is an easily replaceable player. There is no need to go over the Eichel situation. Whether it is sooner or later he will be dealt. Much of it has to do with his decision and also the organization's decision to reboot the roster.  

The point that I am making is that the decision to rebuild with the younger players makes a lot of sense. There really wasn't another feasible option. Would it have been better to rebuild around Jack and Samson? No. For the simple reason that Samson was not going to sign an extended contract and Jack understandably didn't want to be a part of a rebuild. I'm not arguing that the organization didn't put itself in this bad situation with their ingrained ineptitude. But when you make hard-decisions you have to make a cold-blooded assessment of where you are and what are the best options to move forward. In my judgment KA has made the right call in cleaning the slate with the old guard and moving on.  

[woods-racer]

"Anderson is the ideal mentor for Luukkonen. Neither adheres to a strict butterfly style. Luukkonen has one glaring weakness that Anderson can help address: tracking the puck behind the net. There's also the mental grind of an 82-game season and how to navigate the obsessive routines necessary to prepare. It also helps that Buffalo has goalie coach Mike Bales, whose guidance helped the Penguins' goalies win back-to-back Stanley Cups in 2016 and 2017."

"I think there’s a good opportunity there to kind of share some wisdom with the group that’s there," Anderson said. "I feel like I can still kind of give back to the game, give back to the organization, the guys there – share my knowledge and still compete."

 

Full Buffalo News article here well written by Lance Lysowski.

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/sabres-goalie-craig-anderson-could-be-an-ideal-mentor-for-ukko-pekka-luukkonen/article_e3db2e64-f62e-11eb-9298-fba24ca67994.html

 

Anderson knows why he is here. KA and goalie coach Mike Bales expect Anderson to be an on ice coach to all their young net minders. Veteran leadership with hopefully a few could games in him but more importantly a goalie mentor. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Hard to mentor someone in Rochester if Anderson is playing in Buffalo.  Does this imply that UPL will be in Buffalo come Fall?

Edited August 10, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnC]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Hard to mentor someone in Rochester if Anderson is playing in Buffalo.  Does this imply that UPL will be in Buffalo come Fall?

If UPL demonstrates in training camp that he is not in over his head and is the best option as a backup then it is very possible. I would prefer he start in Rochester but the advantage of sticking with the big club is that he will get plenty of practice time with a good goalie coach and be mentored by a supportive veteran goalie. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by JohnC

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

And from the roster that finished 8 points behind the Devils & 6 points behind the Ducks they've removed Montour, Ristolainen, McCabe, Borgen, Reinhart, & Ullmark; & will likely remove Eichel as well.  Yes, Eichel, McCabe, & Ullmark missed significant portions of last season, but at least 2 & likely all 3 will miss all of this season for them.  That whole list is a lot of talent walking out the door.

All true but, the emergence of the ATM line helps replace some of that, as does the addition of R2 and Borque, Girgs is coming back and they seemed to have covered for Risto leaving, but we will see on that front. Plus there is Jack. He might play for us still or landus something valuable to line up. 

 

If we we can get this goalie situation fixed the team has a chance to be good, IMO. 

[dudacek]

21 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

All true but, the emergence of the ATM line helps replace some of that, as does the addition of R2 and Borque, Girgs is coming back and they seemed to have covered for Risto leaving, but we will see on that front. Plus there is Jack. He might play for us still or landus something valuable to line up. 

 

If we we can get this goalie situation fixed the team has a chance to be good, IMO. 

They went ~ 5/10 with the bolded. Not sure how Girgs, Hinostoza, and Butcher/Pysyk are much of an upgrade on Rieder, Sheahan, and Risto, but OK.

Love the optimism though. Anderson for Vezina would be an awesome story.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Hard to mentor someone in Rochester if Anderson is playing in Buffalo.  Does this imply that UPL will be in Buffalo come Fall?

Barring a goalie coming back in an Eichel package or Luukkonnen completely falling on his face pretty sure it's a lock that UPL is in Buffalo in October.  Whether Dell can supplant him remains to be seen, but he'll have to outright win that competition and probably can't do it until November at the absolute earliest.

For better or worse they seem ready to hand the keys to him sometime in the next 2 years.  Have not seen the spark that Bales must see.  Hoping he's right, but not overly hopeful.

[Drag0nDan]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Barring a goalie coming back in an Eichel package or Luukkonnen completely falling on his face pretty sure it's a lock that UPL is in Buffalo in October.  Whether Dell can supplant him remains to be seen, but he'll have to outright win that competition and probably can't do it until November at the absolute earliest.

For better or worse they seem ready to hand the keys to him sometime in the next 2 years.  Have not seen the spark that Bales must see.  Hoping he's right, but not overly hopeful.

If he's the best goaltender, he should be the starter.  Dell tokarski Houser playing in the AHL and taxi squad if there is one.  The goal is to get him starts at this point.  

[Taro T]

33 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

If he's the best goaltender, he should be the starter.  Dell tokarski Houser playing in the AHL and taxi squad if there is one.  The goal is to get him starts at this point.  

The bolded is a mighty big 2 letter word.  We have no reason to believe at this time that the condition you've identified there is in fact "true."  It might turn out to be, but there's at least as great a likelihood it is "false." 

But even if it is "true," it doesn't necessarily mean he's actually "good."

[Drag0nDan]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

The bolded is a mighty big 2 letter word.  We have no reason to believe at this time that the condition you've identified there is in fact "true."  It might turn out to be, but there's at least as great a likelihood it is "false." 

But even if it is "true," it doesn't necessarily mean he's actually "good."

Yep.  That's why i was happy that they included Levi in the panthers trade.  I don't know that he's going to be good either, but they need more bullets in the goalie gun for rebuild 2.0. 

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Yep.  That's why i was happy that they included Levi in the panthers trade.  I don't know that he's going to be good either, but they need more bullets in the goalie gun for rebuild 2.0. 

Even with getting Levi, still wanted either Wallstadt or Cossa at 13 (14?).  Between 4 lottery tickets they should've been able to find at least 1 & likely 2 quality starters.  If they miraculously ended up with 4 then worry about trades when they know what they have down the road.

 

[Drag0nDan]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Even with getting Levi, still wanted either Wallstadt or Cossa at 13 (14?).  Between 4 lottery tickets they should've been able to find at least 1 & likely 2 quality starters.  If they miraculously ended up with 4 then worry about trades when they know what they have down the road.

 

I tend to agree.  I want a stud goalie after years of having no goalie.  Levi and portillo gives them a couple of lottery tickets if UPL doesn't have it. 

At the same time, they went D-man first overall and they do eventually need some goal scorers.

[Andrew Amerk]

9 hours ago, Taro T said:

Barring a goalie coming back in an Eichel package or Luukkonnen completely falling on his face pretty sure it's a lock that UPL is in Buffalo in October.  Whether Dell can supplant him remains to be seen, but he'll have to outright win that competition and probably can't do it until November at the absolute earliest.

For better or worse they seem ready to hand the keys to him sometime in the next 2 years.  Have not seen the spark that Bales must see.  Hoping he's right, but not overly hopeful.

To the bolded, it’s starting to feel that way. Feels like UPL is tentatively penciled in to be in Buffalo learning from Craig. 

It will be a learning and growing season for much of the roster, and I can see UPL being part of that plan. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The Sabres won’t be able to bring Espo out of retirement.

RIP Tony

You we’re one of the best ever.

[pi2000]

Rumor has it that TP wants UPL to take the reigns this season.   He wants to give him every chance to be the starter 😳

[apuszczalowski]

On 8/10/2021 at 11:46 AM, bob_sauve28 said:

All true but, the emergence of the ATM line helps replace some of that, as does the addition of R2 and Borque, Girgs is coming back and they seemed to have covered for Risto leaving, but we will see on that front. Plus there is Jack. He might play for us still or landus something valuable to line up. 

 

If we we can get this goalie situation fixed the team has a chance to be good, IMO. 

probably the same chance as me winning the Lotto tonight, but there is a chance.......

 

This team dropped alot of talent this offseason and replaced most of it with scrapings from the bottom of a septic tank....

This team has a better chance of coming in dead last then being considered a playoff contender in December.

Management has shown that this season is about letting the young guys get NHL experience under their belt then actually winning games.

Considering their top 4 Goalies for next year had a combined win total in the single digits, and only Tokarski played in double digit amount of games in the NHL, even the Coyotes are going to struggle to keep up with Buffalo for the 32nd spot.....

[GoPuckYourself]

Craig Anderson is going to be an amazing mentor to UPL which is why I think those 2 will be our goal tenders this season. Anderson has been an seen it all so I don't think this is going to be as disasterous as people think but we'll find out soon enough.

[bunomatic]

23 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Rumor has it that TP wants UPL to take the reigns this season.   He wants to give him every chance to be the starter 😳

Please tell your source to tell  TP f*€£ off.😉

[spndnchz]

On 8/11/2021 at 1:34 AM, pi2000 said:

Rumor has it that TP wants UPL to take the reigns this season.   He wants to give him every chance to be the starter 😳

Haven’t heard this at all

[JohnC]

On 8/11/2021 at 1:34 AM, pi2000 said:

Rumor has it that TP wants UPL to take the reigns this season.   He wants to give him every chance to be the starter 😳

Who is your source? Is it your imagination? 

[Andrew Amerk]

12 hours ago, JohnC said:

Who is your source? Is it your imagination? 

The super yacht leaks once in awhile.