Goaltending this season and Beyond

[Flashsabre]

Pavel Francouz of the Avs is a UFA after this season. He has always been good as a backup there 31 years old, hasn’t had a chance to start.

He would be a guy to look at on a couple year deal to solidify the starter role while the kids develop and compete.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Flashsabre

[GASabresIUFAN]

I just watched the 3rd period last night.  I've had enough.  KA should be ashamed for the goaltending he gave the Sabres this season. The Sabres should have easily won this game and the goaltending let another good effort go down the drain.  Enough.  

I know we are stuck in the current situation for this season, but if by camp next season KA doesn't have to under 35 proven goaltenders on this roster, he should be fired.  There is no excuse for this mess.

UPL still has a chance to prove he is an NHL goaltender, but now that he is back in Rochester, he needs to post a 2.8 gaa (or better) with a .915 save % or better the remainder of the season to prove is in close to being at least an NHL backup.  

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I just watched the 3rd period last night.  I've had enough.  KA should be ashamed for the goaltending he gave the Sabres this season. The Sabres should have easily won this game and the goaltending let another good effort go down the drain.  Enough.  

I know we are stuck in the current situation for this season, but if by camp next season KA doesn't have to under 35 proven goaltenders on this roster, he should be fired.  There is no excuse for this mess.

UPL still has a chance to prove he is an NHL goaltender, but now that he is back in Rochester, he needs to post a 2.8 gaa (or better) with a .915 save % or better the remainder of the season to prove is in close to being at least an NHL backup.  

Well I'm sorry to inform you but there aren't exactly a bunch of adequate goalies on the market this offseason.

Husso (Great this year but could very easily be a shot in the pan due to his sudden emergence)

Francois (Injury Prone but a solid goalie)

Campbell (Having an incredible year for the most part in Toronto but has shown signs of cracking)

 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

34 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Well I'm sorry to inform you but there aren't exactly a bunch of adequate goalies on the market this offseason.

Husso (Great this year but could very easily be a shot in the pan due to his sudden emergence)

Francois (Injury Prone but a solid goalie)

Campbell (Having an incredible year for the most part in Toronto but has shown signs of cracking)

 

 

Why do you and others always default to the UFA market?  Last I looked, we have a serious excess cap availability and 16 teams that need to free up cap space this off-season.  There will be good goalies available in trade.  

[dudacek]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I just watched the 3rd period last night.  I've had enough.  KA should be ashamed for the goaltending he gave the Sabres this season. The Sabres should have easily won this game and the goaltending let another good effort go down the drain.  Enough.  

I know we are stuck in the current situation for this season, but if by camp next season KA doesn't have to under 35 proven goaltenders on this roster, he should be fired.  There is no excuse for this mess.

UPL still has a chance to prove he is an NHL goaltender, but now that he is back in Rochester, he needs to post a 2.8 gaa (or better) with a .915 save % or better the remainder of the season to prove is in close to being at least an NHL backup.  

That game was a textbook example of why they need a better goalie.

People are going to to think I'm blaming Tokarski. I'm not.

I'm saying that on a bad young team, the skaters don't always play well enough to win. Last night, they played well enough to win. Psychologically their play needed to be rewarded with a win.

In games where one shot is going to make a difference, you need your goalie to be making the huge save more often than he lets in the clunker.

It's that simple.

Edited February 11, 2022 by dudacek

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

That game was a textbook example of why they need a better goalie.

People are going to to think I'm blaming Tokarski. I'm not.

I'm saying that one bad young team, the skaters don't always play well enough to win. Last night, they played well enough to win. Psychologically their play needed to be rewarded with a win.

In games where one shot is going to make a difference, you need your goalie to be making the huge save more often than he lets in the clunker.

It's that simple.

Surely Holtby-UPL will deliver the goods next year 

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Why do you and others always default to the UFA market?  Last I looked, we have a serious excess cap availability and 16 teams that need to free up cap space this off-season.  There will be good goalies available in trade.  

Mostly because I’m completely unwilling to trade a 1st or significant pieces for another team’s second goalie.

[Taro T]

39 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Mostly because I’m completely unwilling to trade a 1st or significant pieces for another team’s second goalie.

You do realize that at the time he was traded to the Sabres, Dominic Hasek was Chicago's 2nd goalie, right?

[woods-racer]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

You do realize that at the time he was traded to the Sabres, Dominic Hasek was Chicago's 2nd goalie, right?

But unlike every other year we are still in the covid years, where even a second will cost a lot. If the GMs believe that there will be no more covid related long term goalie issues the market will return to normal. Till then the price will remain stupid high.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

That game was a textbook example of why they need a better goalie.

People are going to to think I'm blaming Tokarski. I'm not.

I'm saying that on a bad young team, the skaters don't always play well enough to win. Last night, they played well enough to win. Psychologically their play needed to be rewarded with a win.

In games where one shot is going to make a difference, you need your goalie to be making the huge save more often than he lets in the clunker.

It's that simple.

If the Sabres would have had an Ullmark caliber of netminding this season in my opinion the Sabres have at least 10-12 more points in the standings.  The second goal that Tokarski let in was a shot that a below average NHL goalie would stop 99% of the time. It was a crusher! 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Mostly because I’m completely unwilling to trade a 1st or significant pieces for another team’s second goalie.

Over the last 4 seasons not a single 1st rd pick was traded for a goaltender. Many involved cap dumps and a bunch of 2nd and 3rd rd picks.  Considering that we have zero goalies under contract for next season, spending a 2nd rd pick on competent goaltending is a small price to pay.  

The Sabres need to take a big step forward next season and praying injury prone UPL will be a good starting goaltender as early as next season is not a solution.  

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Mostly because I’m completely unwilling to trade a 1st or significant pieces for another team’s second goalie.

You are creating a false scenario. There is no need to give up a first round pick for another team's second goalie. That doesn't mean that you can't make a deal in a trade where you come away with a quality goalie in a package that includes maybe a second or third round pick for a goalie that dramatically improves our goalie situation. When you consider the fact that over the next two years the Sabres possess multiple second and third round picks on top of our multiple first round picks then the organization undoubtably has the assets to get a deal done for the most important and impactful position on the ice. 

Yesterday's game illustrated how a deficiency in net sabotages a good effort. 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

After doing a glance through the NHL trade tracker, it looks like the last 1st rd pick traded directly for a goaltender was TM's acquisition of Lehner.   

Edited February 12, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are creating a false scenario. There is no need to give up a first round pick for another team's second goalie. That doesn't mean that you can't make a deal in a trade where you come away with a quality goalie in a package that includes maybe a second or third round pick for a goalie that dramatically improves our goalie situation. When you consider the fact that over the next two years the Sabres possess multiple second and third round picks on top of our multiple first round picks then the organization undoubtably has the assets to get a deal done for the most important and impactful position on the ice. 

Yesterday's game illustrated how a deficiency in net sabotages a good effort. 

 

I have more faith in our 3 goalie prospects than I do in some teams #2. 

To the bold, Adams used an asset to get a goalie. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I have more faith in our 3 goalie prospects than I do in some teams #2. 

To the bold, Adams used an asset to get a goalie. 

Our 3 goalie prospects may not be ready for starting duty in the NHL for 2-3 more years.  UPL has yet to show he stay healthy for an entire season much less play 50 games as an NHL starter.  He has also yet to show he can sustain a high level of play in the pros.  Levi and Portillo have yet to play pro hockey.  

We need to bridge the gap and what KA has done isn't cutting it.  

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I have more faith in our 3 goalie prospects than I do in some teams #2. 

To the bold, Adams used an asset to get a goalie. 

Even if UPL is ready now there is a need to add a competent goalie in the interim before the other goalie prospects are ready. 

If you are referring to the Florida trade for Levi I'm sure you are aware that it will be another couple or more years before he is ready as a full-time goalie. I'm talking about the now. Yesterday's game was winnable. We didn't win because of the current goalie deficiency. 

[Digger]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

After doing a glance through the NHL trade tracker, it looks like the last 1st rd pick traded directly for a goaltender was TM's acquisition of Lehner.   

I believe the Leafs traded a 1st and 2nd to get Freddy Anderson in June 2016.  Sabres trade was the year earlier. The Leafs sent the Ducks a 2016 first-round pick and a second-round pick in the 2017 NHL Entry Draft.

I do understand your point though especially for the last few years with goalie trades.

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Even if UPL is ready now there is a need to add a competent goalie in the interim before the other goalie prospects are ready. 

If you are referring to the Florida trade for Levi I'm sure you are aware that it will be another couple or more years before he is ready as a full-time goalie. I'm talking about the now. Yesterday's game was winnable. We didn't win because of the current goalie deficiency. 

If Anderson had started, we would have won. 

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If Anderson had started, we would have won. 

Anderson didn't start and we lost. He's been out of action for most of the season due to injury. When you get a 40 yr old goalie who was expected to be the secondary goalie and put him in position to be your primary goalie you are putting the team in a precarious position. And that is exactly how it played out this season. 

[woods-racer]

12 hours ago, JohnC said:

Anderson didn't start and we lost. He's been out of action for most of the season due to injury. When you get a 40 yr old goalie who was expected to be the secondary goalie and put him in position to be your primary goalie you are putting the team in a precarious position. And that is exactly how it played out this season. 

Find a starting goalie for a 3rd round or lower pick that is on a maximum deal of 2 years that you will guarantee is better than UPL/Anderson. If you can't, neither can KA.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I think the most likely thing to happen is that Adams signs Anderson for another year at a million $ and UPL plays next season in Buffalo.  Levi is signed and plays next year in Rochester.  I think Toker sticks around for another year as insurance in Rochester.

[JohnC]

24 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

Find a starting goalie for a 3rd round or lower pick that is on a maximum deal of 2 years that you will guarantee is better than UPL/Anderson. If you can't, neither can KA.

Go back and look what Yzerman did to get a goaltender in a trade with Carolina last offseason. He acquired a good goaltender at a minimum price. The Sabres have a lot more in assets to parlay to come up with a competent netminder this offseason. 

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2021/07/22/detroit-red-wings-alex-nedeljkovic-trade-carolina-hurricanes/8058139002/

I have cited this example not to highlight any particular player but to make the point that there are/were opportunities to improve the most important position on a hockey team if there would have been a willingness to do so. 

Our team is rebuilding and obviously the roster is far from incomplete. With quality goaltending this team would be in a much better situation. If the GM would have paid a little more than he wanted to retain Ullmark this team's record would be a lot more respectable. The moral of the story is when you don't have an adequate fallback position you fall back. And that's exactly what happened. It didn't have to be that way. 

[woods-racer]

32 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Go back and look what Yzerman did to get a goaltender in a trade with Carolina last offseason. He acquired a good goaltender at a minimum price. The Sabres have a lot more in assets to parlay to come up with a competent netminder this offseason. 

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2021/07/22/detroit-red-wings-alex-nedeljkovic-trade-carolina-hurricanes/8058139002/

I have cited this example not to highlight any particular player but to make the point that there are/were opportunities to improve the most important position on a hockey team if there would have been a willingness to do so. 

Our team is rebuilding and obviously the roster is far from incomplete. With quality goaltending this team would be in a much better situation. If the GM would have paid a little more than he wanted to retain Ullmark this team's record would be a lot more respectable. The moral of the story is when you don't have an adequate fallback position you fall back. And that's exactly what happened. It didn't have to be that way. 

Name KA's goalie and the price. 

Just because 2 teams make a trade doesn't mean the Sabres where ever players for a similar trade. We had a 3rd sure, we didn't have a Benrier. Can't make a trade if you don't have the return.

You can keep wasting time throwing Ulmarks name out there, term and money and was not happening.

 

[JohnC]

Just now, woods-racer said:

Name KA's goalie and the price. 

Just because 2 teams make a trade doesn't mean the Sabres where ever players for a similar trade. We had a 3rd sure, we didn't have a Benrier. Can't make a trade if you don't have the return.

You can keep wasting time throwing Ulmarks name out there, term and money and was not happening.

 

The problem wasn't not signing Ullmark. It was not having a fallback position if he couldn't get him signed within the GM's contract parameters. There was no surprise about the player's UFA status was. The GM had more than enough time to have a better option A or B. 

With respect to Ullmark's contract higher contract demand for Buffalo compared to Boston although the terms were higher they weren't unrealistic, especially for a team that had plenty of cap space. The vulnerable situation that the Sabres were left in at goal was unnecessary. 

[LGR4GM]

46 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Go back and look what Yzerman did to get a goaltender in a trade with Carolina last offseason. He acquired a good goaltender at a minimum price. The Sabres have a lot more in assets to parlay to come up with a competent netminder this offseason. 

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2021/07/22/detroit-red-wings-alex-nedeljkovic-trade-carolina-hurricanes/8058139002/

I have cited this example not to highlight any particular player but to make the point that there are/were opportunities to improve the most important position on a hockey team if there would have been a willingness to do so. 

Our team is rebuilding and obviously the roster is far from incomplete. With quality goaltending this team would be in a much better situation. If the GM would have paid a little more than he wanted to retain Ullmark this team's record would be a lot more respectable. The moral of the story is when you don't have an adequate fallback position you fall back. And that's exactly what happened. It didn't have to be that way. 

So there's an expansion draft this year forcing a team to leave a goalie like nadeljkovic exposed unless they trade him?

You know who has a better sv% than Ullmark and isn't signed for another 3 years at 5mil in cap? Craig Anderson. 

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The problem wasn't not signing Ullmark. It was not having a fallback position if he couldn't get him signed within the GM's contract parameters. There was no surprise about the player's UFA status was. The GM had more than enough time to have a better option A or B. 

With respect to Ullmark's contract higher contract demand for Buffalo compared to Boston although the terms were higher they weren't unrealistic, especially for a team that had plenty of cap space. The vulnerable situation that the Sabres were left in at goal was unnecessary. 

He did have a call back, Craig Anderson. The guy who has played better than Ullmark this year.