Sabres Identity: Hardworking, Relentless with Speed.

[dudacek]

The point is that players will sign where they feel it is in their best interest to sign.

Their first and foremost consideration is almost always fit and opportunity: where am I being offered a role that will put me in a position where I can succeed?

After that, money, team success, family, lifestyle, travel and familiarity will all play a part in their decision and different people look for different things in each category.

The Sabres certainly rank at the bottom of the team success scale, but it’s only one element. They can compete with the others.

[JohnC]

30 minutes ago, Weave said:

How is Hall’s situation really any different than Hinostras?  Why would Hall be inclined towards polite and disingenuous and Hinostra not have the same motivation to do the same?  They both took the best money they could at the time.  Yes, Hinostra maybe gets opportunity here that he wouldn’t elsewhere, but at the end of the day both were supposedly wooed by coach-speak.

Lets see if he’s still motivated when there is nothing to play for in November.

We'll see. 

[Thorner]

15 hours ago, pi2000 said:

It's an illusion.   They were 9-16-3 under Granato... thats uhh, not good.

This. You know what's an exciting brand of hockey? Winning hockey. That's it for me. 

15 hours ago, klos1963 said:

I know this a little bit of cherry picking, but I think it's legit. I think we lost his first 5 or 6 games. Once they got some time under their belts with the new system, they were a .500 team and very entertaining to watch. I think that's why Granato got the full time gig. There's reason to feel good about the new coach, but we are still lacking in talent to compete over a full 82 games.

For a stretch of games. It didn't continue to season's end IIRC

[Thorner]

13 hours ago, dudacek said:

After losing its first 6 under Granato, the team went 9/11/2 to finish the season.

However that 9/11/2 became 5/10/1 without Ullmark, who they haven’t replaced.

And it has also dumped its first-line centre and its #2D without adding anything of significance to replace them.

Barring further significant additions, if he guides this team to more than 65 points next year, Granato should win the Jack Adams.

 

Also, people are willingly pointing out the accurate, positive variables on Granato's side (that he didn't get much practice time, etc) but ignoring those on the other side of the equation - the tried and true concept that it's easier to win games in "garbage time" at the end of a meaningless season

I like Granato and have said as much. I like him best of anyone in a management role. But it's becoming a bit of tunnel vision 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Thorny

[klos1963]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Also, people are willingly pointing out the positive variables on Granato's side (that he didn't get much practice time, etc) but ignoring those on the other side of the equation - the tried and true concept that it's easier to win games in "garbage time" at the end of a meaningless season

I'm not sure people are ignoring the garbage time concept. Nobody is really expecting the team to be very competitive this season, but I do think Granato did an admirable job and the team showed some talent and energy severely lacking under RK. I still expect them for finish at the bottom of the league this season.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

I'm not sure people are ignoring the garbage time concept. Nobody is really expecting the team to be very competitive this season, but I do think Granato did an admirable job and the team showed some talent and energy severely lacking under RK. I still expect them for finish at the bottom of the league this season.

No I think it is being ignored relative to the qualities you are expecting them to excel in this season: namely the expected improved "entertainment value" of the on-ice product. I think the style they were asked to, and allowed by other teams to play to close out the year has a decent chance of being wildly affected earlier in a season. I'd also argue it's easier to hang one's hats on those types of takeaways when you don't care about winning. People seemed to have gotten to that point by the end of last season.

I'd argue that's why stressing this coming season isn't really about winning (in not so many words) is so crucial to the mood Adams and the Org are trying to perpetuate. 

[jad1]

1 minute ago, klos1963 said:

I'm not sure people are ignoring the garbage time concept. Nobody is really expecting the team to be very competitive this season, but I do think Granato did an admirable job and the team showed some talent and energy severely lacking under RK. I still expect them for finish at the bottom of the league this season.

And that's the trap that this organization is stuck in.  Three different GMs the last 7 seasons, each one has a last place finish to their record. Before this era of incompetence, the Sabres had one last place finish in 40+ years.

Whether it's an intentional tank or not, there is no organizational urgency on winning now.

And while many will claim that attempting to win now and build for the future are competing interests, they're not. The Sabres could have developed their young players and find a 2c.  Or a legitimate starting goalie.  Or figured out their defense.

Hiring experienced front office people who could set the foundation for a rebuild would have been a much better approach than hiring inexperienced guys who sell a slogan, but have no functional plan to deliver on that slogan.

Granato seems like a guy who's floor is a competent coach.  And that's a huge improvement over the last guy.  No idea what his ceiling is, but he probably won't have a chance to reach that ceiling with the lack of talent the Sabres roster will have this season.

[dudacek]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

No I think it is being ignored relative to the qualities you are expecting them to excel in this season: namely the expected improved "entertainment value" of the on-ice product. I think the style they were asked to, and allowed by other teams to play to close out the year has a decent chance of being wildly affected earlier in a season. I'd also argue it's easier to hang one's hats on those types of takeaways when you don't care about winning. People seemed to have gotten to that point by the end of last season.

I'd argue that's why stressing this coming season isn't really about winning (in not so many words) is so crucial to the mood Adams and the Org are trying to perpetuate. 

Even though I agree with most of your point, I do think the garbage time element is being overstated.

The Sabres played 13 of their final 15 games against playoff teams in a very tough race on top of the east, with the other 2 against the 5th place Rangers. Almost all those games were part of back-to-backs against the same teams,

They were not playing against good teams going through the motions, or bad teams playing out the string.

Edited August 8, 2021 by dudacek

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Even though I agree with most of your point, I do think the garbage time element is being overstated.

The Sabres played 13 of their final 15 games against playoff teams in a very tough race on top of the east, with the other 2 against the 5th place Rangers. Almost all those games were part of back-to-backs against the same teams,

They were not playing against good teams going through the motions, or bad teams playing out the string.

It's overstated, but I think it's a factor. I don't need it to be a massive factor at all when the starting point is the record we had, quoted above, ya know? Especially in combination with the factors you just outlined? One more small thing on top of all the other stuff is arguably still significant because we aren't in a position where we have *any* ground we can afford to cede, here. 

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

Hall said himself it was a huge factor.  And I am sure it was right up until he realized this team was not winning anything.  And it will be the same for Hinostra as well.  And that is my only point.

I think when he saw the country club RK was running, Hall decided to mail it in. No expectations.

[Pimlach]

19 hours ago, klos1963 said:

I know this a little bit of cherry picking, but I think it's legit. I think we lost his first 5 or 6 games. Once they got some time under their belts with the new system, they were a .500 team and very entertaining to watch. I think that's why Granato got the full time gig. There's reason to feel good about the new coach, but we are still lacking in talent to compete over a full 82 games.

We don’t have the same team.  Reinhart, Risto and Ullmark are gone.  None have been replaced with anyone even close to equal.  This team will be dominated a lot.  

Last place is very likely and it will take a monumental coaching effort just to get these guys to compete for 82 games.  

Edited August 8, 2021 by Pimlach

[klos1963]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

We don’t have the same team.  Reinhart, Risto and Ullmark are gone.  None have been replace with anything even close to equal.  This team will be dominated a lot.  

Last place is very likely and it will take a monumental coaching effort just to get these guys to compete for 82 games.  

Agreed.  I made a point of mentioning that we lack the talent to compete.

[Gabrielor]

All for it, but one key thing needs to be added: Skill

 

Hardworking, Relentless, those will always play well in Buffalo, but if there's no skill to go with it, then it's just the Hasek Sabres without Hasek.

Fortunately, we did seem to draft a lot of skill too.

[DarthEbriate]

On 8/5/2021 at 7:46 AM, WildCard said:

Really does feel like the Sabres are setting out to build a team like the Bills did. Identify guys with high motors and work ethics that love the sport and want to play here. I don't hate it.

Like the late '90s Sabres. I like it. That's good hockey. But with Anderson/Dell and a rushed UPL instead of Hasek. Oh. Hmmmm.

[Pimlach]

On 8/7/2021 at 7:00 PM, Doohickie said:

So it took Granato a mere 20 games to change the Sabres' reputation.  Does anyone else see that as a good thing going forward?

The Sabres reputation has not changed as a result of the last 20 games.  Maybe it had changed a little bit in Buffalo among the most loyal die hard fans.  Across the league they are a still a laughing stock.  Most fans across the NHL probably do not follow them or know who their coach is.  
 

The public spectacle that Eichel has created only makes the franchise look bad.  Most fans outside of Buffalo don’t take the time to learn the details either.  When they see Sam, Risto, Ullmark leave, and nothing  significant coming back, they see Buffalo is the worst franchise in the league.    
 

I look at the current Sabres roster and see a very poor team.  Young unproven players in critical positions supported by minimum wage marginal NHL talent.  Maybe they hang together and play hard?   I hope so. 

The negative feelings I have about this team have crept back in.   I understand the reset that KA is doing but it sure is frustrating.   

[Pimlach]

22 hours ago, jad1 said:

And that's the trap that this organization is stuck in.  Three different GMs the last 7 seasons, each one has a last place finish to their record. Before this era of incompetence, the Sabres had one last place finish in 40+ years.

Whether it's an intentional tank or not, there is no organizational urgency on winning now.

And while many will claim that attempting to win now and build for the future are competing interests, they're not. The Sabres could have developed their young players and find a 2c.  Or a legitimate starting goalie.  Or figured out their defense.

Hiring experienced front office people who could set the foundation for a rebuild would have been a much better approach than hiring inexperienced guys who sell a slogan, but have no functional plan to deliver on that slogan.

Granato seems like a guy who's floor is a competent coach.  And that's a huge improvement over the last guy.  No idea what his ceiling is, but he probably won't have a chance to reach that ceiling with the lack of talent the Sabres roster will have this season.

 ^  This.   Thank you.  Everyone needs read the bold over and over again. 
 

In summary, to improve you have to actually try to win.    

[LGR4GM]

This is rock bottom. Fans have completely lost the plot and the constant bitching over everything is pretty much the ***** worst.