Rochester Americans 2021-2022

[DarthEbriate]

Doing some after-the-fact follow-up...   Not a good look for Laaksonen to get scratched when the team is dressing 7 D because Weissbach is hurt and Samuelsson is also injured. Do we know if Laaksonen has an injury as well?

[dudacek]

17 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Doing some after-the-fact follow-up...   Not a good look for Laaksonen to get scratched when the team is dressing 7 D because Weissbach is hurt and Samuelsson is also injured. Do we know if Laaksonen has an injury as well?

Doesn’t seem to be hurt.

Add in Davidson who might be back for Utica and Laaksonen is apparently 10th on the Amerks depth chart right now, although Tischke playing ahead of him might have more to with the thuggish nature of Belleville than anything else. That doesn’t explain Teves and Elliot though.

Tischke, Elliott and Teves are all undrafted, in their mid-20s and have never been AHL regulars before.

Not the look of a guy on the cusp of the NHL, that’s for sure.

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by dudacek

[Carmel Corn]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Doesn’t seem to be hurt.

Add in Davidson who might be back for Utica and Laaksonen is apparently 10th on the Amerks depth chart right now, although Tischke playing ahead of him might have more to with the thuggish nature of Belleville than anything else. That doesn’t explain Teves and Elliot though.

Tischke, Elliott and Teves are all undrafted, in their mid-20s and have never been AHL regulars before.

Not the look like a guy on the cusp of the NHL, that’s for sure.

 

Jason Botterill's failures as a GM are still painful, even though he's been gone a while now.  Whether it be bad coaches or bad drafting, I find very little good to offset the bad.  BTW - picking Dahlin does not count, as that was a no-brainer.

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Doesn’t seem to be hurt.

Add in Davidson who might be back for Utica and Laaksonen is apparently 10th on the Amerks depth chart right now, although Tischke playing ahead of him might have more to with the thuggish nature of Belleville than anything else. That doesn’t explain Teves and Elliot though.

Tischke, Elliott and Teves are all undrafted, in their mid-20s and have never been AHL regulars before.

Not the look like a guy on the cusp of the NHL, that’s for sure.

 

Farrance should have been that pick.

Will never understand why Botterill didn't take the local kid.

 

[DarthEbriate]

13 hours ago, Taro T said:

Farrance should have been that pick.

Will never understand why Botterill didn't take the local kid.

True. Maybe take Laaksonen instead of Bryson in the 4th after a Farrance pick. 

Laaksonen is still only 22 and was a definite long-term project pick so the jury is still out. He's also only listed at 172 pounds and 6-2... he needs to drink more beer. He had the 2nd most points as a D in ROC this season. It's just disheartening he can't get into the lineup for the playoff experience on a team with a famously thin D-corp this season (once Muel and Fitz were gone). Not even as a 5/6+PP specialist.

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

Jason Botterill's failures as a GM are still painful, even though he's been gone a while now.  Whether it be bad coaches or bad drafting, I find very little good to offset the bad.  BTW - picking Dahlin does not count, as that was a no-brainer.

This simply isn’t true.

Mitts, Bryson, Samuelsson, Dahlin and Cozens are all Jbot picks.  UPL will be in the NHL next season. His entire 2019 all had excellent seasons either in college or Europe and are headed toward the NHL including key prospects Portillo and Johnson, except Rousek.  Rousek, who was injured, is now making a name for himself in Rochester.  Wiessbach also had a solid rookie campaign in Rochester.  

Jbot also acquired Thompson, Skinner, Jokiharju and Routsalainen.  

Jbot mades tons of mistakes, but this notion he didn’t draft well or acquire any good players is BS. 
 

[Flashsabre]

14 hours ago, Taro T said:

Farrance should have been that pick.

Will never understand why Botterill didn't take the local kid.

 

Why? Laaksonen has had the better career in the AHL so far.

[GASabresIUFAN]

12 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Why? Laaksonen has had the better career in the AHL so far.

Jbot took Bryson 7 picks after Farrance and he has been better than both combined.  Bryson is an actual NHL player.

Edited May 9, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[PromoTheRobot]

30 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This simply isn’t true.

Mitts, Bryson, Samuelsson, Dahlin and Cozens are all Jbot picks.  UPL will be in the NHL next season. His entire 2019 all had excellent seasons either in college or Europe and are headed toward the NHL including key prospects Portillo and Johnson, except Rousek.  Rousek, who was injured, is now making a name for himself in Rochester.  Wiessbach also had a solid rookie campaign in Rochester.  

Jbot also acquired Thompson, Skinner, Jokiharju and Routsalainen.  

Jbot mades tons of mistakes, but this notion he didn’t draft well or acquire any good players is BS. 
 

He certainly let some quality players walk out the door, though.

[Curt]

16 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Why? Laaksonen has had the better career in the AHL so far.

I guess we’ll see, but Laaksonen does not get good reviews.  Offensive skill sure, but his defense is terrible.  He is currently getting healthy scratched for AHL playoff games.

Farrance seems to have developed very nicely in college.  I don’t know that much about him.

[Carmel Corn]

45 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This simply isn’t true.

Mitts, Bryson, Samuelsson, Dahlin and Cozens are all Jbot picks.  UPL will be in the NHL next season. His entire 2019 all had excellent seasons either in college or Europe and are headed toward the NHL including key prospects Portillo and Johnson, except Rousek.  Rousek, who was injured, is now making a name for himself in Rochester.  Wiessbach also had a solid rookie campaign in Rochester.  

Jbot also acquired Thompson, Skinner, Jokiharju and Routsalainen.  

Jbot mades tons of mistakes, but this notion he didn’t draft well or acquire any good players is BS. 
 

I think you own post with specific names answers the question loud and clear.  Again, Dahlin does not count.  Don't forget how we got Tage as well (the trade).  With maybe the exception of Cozens (potentially), there are maybe some bottom 6 forward potential from his own draft picks.  I do like Samuelsson as his other D pick while Bryson impact remains to be seen.  Drafting Johnson and Laaksonen were simply bad picks IMHO.  UPL?  Who knows yet.

My point again was bad drafting and coaching decisions, not everything else he did as a GM.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

He certainly let some quality players walk out the door, though.

Which player did he let walk that was helping this team move forward?  He was forced to trade ROR but got Thompson and Johnson.  Lehrer? How much good is he doing LV and didn’t we have a better replacement in Ullmark? Kane? 

Jbot as I said made many mistakes, such as Colin Miller, Housley and Rasputin, but I’d suggest you look at the team he inherited and tell me if you think that was a good team ready to contend.

Edited May 9, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Brawndo]

 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Which player did he let walk that was helping this team move forward?  He was forced to ROR but got Thompson and Johnson.  Lehrer? How much good is he doing LV and didn’t he have a better replacement in Ullmark? Kane? 

Jbot as I said made many mistakes, such as Colin Miller, Housley and Rasputin, but I’d suggest you look at the team he inherited and tell me if you think that was a good team ready to contend.

I was referring to Brandon Hagel.

[GASabresIUFAN]

28 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I was referring to Brandon Hagel.

Really?  So he let one “quality” player walk.  He let a late round TM draft pick return to the draft after he had taken a serious step back in performance the year Jbot had to sign him.  Hagel was not re-drafted, but after a huge overage season in the WHL he was given an ELC by the Hawks.  He is the one in a million shot.  

On the other hand, Jbot took a similar chance on Murray and is getting decent results so far. 

Also Carmel saying that Jbot doesn’t get credit for taking Dahlin is ludicrous.  There are no givens in the draft.  GMs even get the 1st wrong frequently (See Nail Yakupov or Patrik Stefan). Does TM therefore not get credit for Reinhart and Eichel? Does KA not get credit for Power?  
 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Andrew Amerk]

RE: earlier posts...

Did Laaksonen fall off of a cliff?

The times I saw him earlier in the season, he was making really good passes, getting shots through from the point, and his vision and creativity looked great. 

Was he exceptional defensively? No. But it looked to me like he was improving in that area. 

I think the last time I saw him, he had 4 or 5 assists in a game against the Comets back in January, and he looked sound defensively. Then I didn’t see any games at all until the recent playoff game. 

Did something happen where he completely fell off of a cliff in the last couple months???

[Amerks8796]

1 hour ago, Andrew Amerk said:

RE: earlier posts...

Did Laaksonen fall off of a cliff?

The times I saw him earlier in the season, he was making really good passes, getting shots through from the point, and his vision and creativity looked great. 

Was he exceptional defensively? No. But it looked to me like he was improving in that area. 

I think the last time I saw him, he had 4 or 5 assists in a game against the Comets back in January, and he looked sound defensively. Then I didn’t see any games at all until the recent playoff game. 

Did something happen where he completely fell off of a cliff in the last couple months???

He’s been beyond bad defensively all year. There’s a reason 3 AHL/ECHL tweeners played over him. With Davidson close to a return, I can’t imagine it’ll be any easier for him to crack the lineup. 

[Andrew Amerk]

19 minutes ago, Amerks8796 said:

He’s been beyond bad defensively all year. There’s a reason 3 AHL/ECHL tweeners played over him. With Davidson close to a return, I can’t imagine it’ll be any easier for him to crack the lineup. 

The bolded is the part that I don’t understand. Like I said, Laaksonen wasn’t exactly a defensive juggernaut, but the AHL is a development league, and Oskari is only 22, and it looked like he had been getting better the first few months of the season. 

What is the point of replacing his spot with a handful of ECHL dudes in their mid-20’s, instead of continuing to let Laaksonen learn and develop?

[inkman]

1 minute ago, Andrew Amerk said:

The bolded is the part that I don’t understand. Like I said, Laaksonen wasn’t exactly a defensive juggernaut, but the AHL is a development league, and Oskari is only 22, and it looked like he had been getting better the first few months of the season. 

What is the point of replacing his spot with a handful of ECHL dudes in their mid-20’s, instead of continuing to let Laaksonen learn and develop?

Seems very un-meatball like. 

[Amerks8796]

9 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

The bolded is the part that I don’t understand. Like I said, Laaksonen wasn’t exactly a defensive juggernaut, but the AHL is a development league, and Oskari is only 22, and it looked like he had been getting better the first few months of the season. 

What is the point of replacing his spot with a handful of ECHL dudes in their mid-20’s, instead of continuing to let Laaksonen learn and develop?

Your mistake, which is common, is to think development get prioritized 100% of the time. It doesn’t. Appert had said as much himself. Development is far less a priority, in the moment, in the playoffs compared to, say, a regular season game in December. 
 

Laaksonen is very weak, defensively and physically. I don’t think his defensive game improved much at all. There’s no doubt he’s good offensively, but they were playing a big and physical team in Belleville. 
 

I actually think you might see him tonight if Davidson is still out. They could use him as the 7th D and shelter his defensive minutes and mostly use him on the PP. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Is it possible Oskari is injured? Maybe not enough to keep him from playing in an emergency, but enough to take away his best skills.  Similar to VO’s injury that limited his shot.

Edited May 10, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[inkman]

They have the Goat head at the Amerks team store.  I’m here now. 

[nfreeman]

On 5/9/2022 at 11:24 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Which player did he let walk that was helping this team move forward?  He was forced to trade ROR but got Thompson and Johnson.  Lehrer? How much good is he doing LV and didn’t we have a better replacement in Ullmark? Kane? 

Jbot as I said made many mistakes, such as Colin Miller, Housley and Rasputin, but I’d suggest you look at the team he inherited and tell me if you think that was a good team ready to contend.

On SabreSpace, we do not blithely make false factual assertions just because they support our arguments.

As to the bolded, we'll never know for sure, but what we do know indicates that JB decided to trade ROR in order to improve the room, and TP told him to get it done before the deadline for paying the $7.5MM bonus.  That is NOT him being "forced to trade ROR."

 

On 5/9/2022 at 2:38 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Also Carmel saying that Jbot doesn’t get credit for taking Dahlin is ludicrous.  There are no givens in the draft.  GMs even get the 1st wrong frequently (See Nail Yakupov or Patrik Stefan). Does TM therefore not get credit for Reinhart and Eichel? Does KA not get credit for Power?  

 

 

JB absolutely does not get credit for drafting Dahlin, who was a runaway "generational" defenseman and the unanimous top prospect in the draft -- especially because JB was trying to ice a competitive team that year but nevertheless finished DFL.

For that matter, GMTM does not get credit for Reino or Eichel, and KA does not get credit for Power.  No one gets credit for icing a terrible team and then having the resultant #1 or #2 OA pick be a good player.

[inkman]

Only a few tickets left.  Just grabbed a single seat for my boy.  If you want to go.  Get tickets right now. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

45 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

On SabreSpace, we do not blithely make false factual assertions just because they support our arguments.

As to the bolded, we'll never know for sure, but what we do know indicates that JB decided to trade ROR in order to improve the room, and TP told him to get it done before the deadline for paying the $7.5MM bonus.  That is NOT him being "forced to trade ROR."

 

JB absolutely does not get credit for drafting Dahlin, who was a runaway "generational" defenseman and the unanimous top prospect in the draft -- especially because JB was trying to ice a competitive team that year but nevertheless finished DFL.

For that matter, GMTM does not get credit for Reino or Eichel, and KA does not get credit for Power.  No one gets credit for icing a terrible team and then having the resultant #1 or #2 OA pick be a good player.

Let me know when to stop laughing.  Seriously?  When an owner tells you to unload a player to save $8 bonus money, that is the definition of being forced to trade him.  Also there are million of false representations on this board daily.  LOL.    

Help me out, I'm trying to understand.  So in your world every GM ever who drafted in the top 3 doesn't get credit for making that pick.  Wow.

What if that no brainer pick turns out not to be the best player?  Dahlin is arguably not the best player for his draft so far.  I think some would argue Quinn Hughes and Svechnikov are better players, especially before this past season.  Reinhart, while drafted second, is certainly not the 2nd best player in his draft. Pastrnak, Ekblad, Draisaitl, Point and maybe Larkin are all better players. Is Eichel the 2nd best in his year? What about Marner, Aho, Rantanen and maybe Kyle Connor at this point?  You don't give them credit for adding an excellent player to the franchise, but then are you barred from criticizing them if the player turns out not to be the best available?

GMs get credit for making good picks and criticism when they make bad picks regardless of when they were made. That's the way it works.  We don't carve out special exemptions to bolster arguments that so and so was bad as his job or good at his job.  There are very rarely a "no-brainer" draft pick. Drafting 18 year olds is a risky business.  

Edited May 12, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN