Rochester Americans 2021-2022

[inkman]

8 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Can we call it the Hiney-Stroka line?

FIFY

[inkman]

 

[Norcal]

 

[kas23]

Anyone still dismissing Cozens isn’t a Mitts 2.0 situation in the making?

[Curt]

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

Anyone still dismissing Cozens isn’t a Mitts 2.0 situation in the making?

I don’t think they are all that similar.  What do you mean exactly?

[Thorner]

39 minutes ago, Curt said:

I don’t think they are all that similar.  What do you mean exactly?

Not as players, but situationally both are guys who were asked, in their second season seeing NHL action, to be one of the top 2 scoring Cs on their team heading into camp, with a C spine that had been notably depleted the offseason prior 

[kas23]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I don’t think they are all that similar.  What do you mean exactly?

Cozens and Mitts were both placed on a team when they weren’t ready for NHL play, but we’re done so based mostly on need. While Mitts was asked to officially be a 2C, Cozens is not. But, still, he’s a warm body that can play the C position and we really don’t have a 1C/2C this year, so his position on the team really isn’t that dissimilar.
 

He’s should’ve been in Rochester all last year, but couldn’t. So, instead of fixing this issue (just like Mitts), he’s being placed on an NHL roster and is struggling. Yes, every rookie has their ups and downs, but so did Mitts in 18-19 and it obviously didn’t help. Cozens development is being mishandled in much of the same way Mitts was. 

[Buffalonill]

Send Cozens down 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

Cozens and Mitts were both placed on a team when they weren’t ready for NHL play, but we’re done so based mostly on need. While Mitts was asked to officially be a 2C, Cozens is not. But, still, he’s a warm body that can play the C position and we really don’t have a 1C/2C this year, so his position on the team really isn’t that dissimilar.
 

He’s should’ve been in Rochester all last year, but couldn’t. So, instead of fixing this issue (just like Mitts), he’s being placed on an NHL roster and is struggling. Yes, every rookie has their ups and downs, but so did Mitts in 18-19 and it obviously didn’t help. Cozens development is being mishandled in much of the same way Mitts was. 

Has Cozens really been that bad though?  I’m not of the opinion that he is strictly not ready for the NHL.

I thought he did ok last season, but did hit a wall towards the end.

Also, Cozens could have been placed in the AHL last season.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Curt

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Has Cozens really been that bad though?  I’m not of the opinion that he is strictly not ready for the NHL.

I thought he did ok last season, but did hit a wall towards the end.

Also, Cozens could have been placed in the AHL last season.

It's more a question of expectations. People want to see him dominate, not screw up.

Maybe he makes more mistakes than most of the forwards, but he also makes more plays too.

He hasn't been as effective as Thompson, Olofsson, Asplund and Girgensons, and arguably Caggiula, Skinner and Okposo.

But he's certainly been no worse than R2, Hayden, Bjork or Hinostroza.

[kas23]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Has Cozens really been that bad though?  I’m not of the opinion that he is strictly not ready for the NHL.

I thought he did ok last season, but did hit a wall towards the end.

Also, Cozens could have been placed in the AHL last season.

He has not been horrible, but I see his development suffering and think he’s on the Sabres roster for the wrong reasons. Like Mitts in the past, he’s showing glimpses of great plays, but also bad mistakes. That’s OK, but is he really in a position to grow?
 

I had forgot that the OHL was cancelled last season, so he was eligible. It just makes it more similar to Mitts: both leapfrogged the AHL in their first years. 
 

I’m not saying he’s stinking up the joint, but his development is likely suffering. And the driving reason here is our lack of Centers. I want him up here based on skill, not need. My guess is once Mitts comes back, Cozens moves to wing or goes down. 
 

Also, is there a hockey reason, besides position, why Quinn is in Rochester and Cozens is in Buffalo? 

[dudacek]

23 minutes ago, kas23 said:

He has not been horrible, but I see his development suffering and think he’s on the Sabres roster for the wrong reasons. Like Mitts in the past, he’s showing glimpses of great plays, but also bad mistakes. That’s OK, but is he really in a position to grow?
 

I had forgot that the OHL was cancelled last season, so he was eligible. It just makes it more similar to Mitts: both leapfrogged the AHL in their first years. 
 

I’m not saying he’s stinking up the joint, but his development is likely suffering. And the driving reason here is our lack of Centers. I want him up here based on skill, not need. My guess is once Mitts comes back, Cozens moves to wing or goes down. 
 

Also, is there a hockey reason, besides position, why Quinn is in Rochester and Cozens is in Buffalo? 

Because the Sabres didn't think Quinn was ready for the NHL and they thought Cozens was? I mean it hasn't even been 10 games.

Cozens is older, physically more developed and was more dominant against his peers.

I agree that we will likely see Cozens moved to wing when Mitts comes back, assuming we aren't dealing with another centre shuffle from an Eichel trade.

[kas23]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Because the Sabres didn't think Quinn was ready for the NHL and they thought Cozens was? I mean it hasn't even been 10 games.

Cozens is older, physically more developed and was more dominant against his peers.

I agree that we will likely see Cozens moved to wing when Mitts comes back, assuming we aren't dealing with another centre shuffle from an Eichel trade.

Cozens and Quinn are both 20 years-old, with Cozens being 7 months-older, which shouldn’t matter much at this level. And when was the last time Cozens dominated against his peers? That was 18-19 and he hasn’t since. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m not advocating for Quinn’s immediate call-up. He is what we should be doing with Cozens. Allowing him to dominate over his peers. I think that’s important to him at this point in his development. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

He has not been horrible, but I see his development suffering and think he’s on the Sabres roster for the wrong reasons. Like Mitts in the past, he’s showing glimpses of great plays, but also bad mistakes. That’s OK, but is he really in a position to grow?
 

I had forgot that the OHL was cancelled last season, so he was eligible. It just makes it more similar to Mitts: both leapfrogged the AHL in their first years. 
 

I’m not saying he’s stinking up the joint, but his development is likely suffering. And the driving reason here is our lack of Centers. I want him up here based on skill, not need. My guess is once Mitts comes back, Cozens moves to wing or goes down. 
 

Also, is there a hockey reason, besides position, why Quinn is in Rochester and Cozens is in Buffalo? 

My personal take on it is that just because a player is doing so-so, struggling a little, a bit up and down, that doesn’t mean that their development is being hurt.  When do most people learn the most?  When they are doing something hard that pushes them to the edge of their current ability, or when they are easily dominating?

The Mitts situation was him struggling badly (worse than Cozens, IMO) for a long period of time, over a year.  You could tell he was just overmatched, losing confidence, and was just not keeping up.

I don’t think that is what is going on with Cozens right now.

Cozens is a year older than Quinn.  That’s one possible reason.  But I would ask you, why would you want to bring Quinn up?  He might struggle and that would hurt his development.  Isn’t it better for him to be in the AHL where he can play very well?  Do you see that as best for his development?

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Cozens and Quinn are both 20 years-old, with Cozens being 7 months-older, which shouldn’t matter much at this level. And when was the last time Cozens dominated against his peers? That was 18-19 and he hasn’t since. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m not advocating for Quinn’s immediate call-up. He is what we should be doing with Cozens. Allowing him to dominate over his peers. I think that’s important to him at this point in his development. 

Cozens dominated against his peers for the whole 2019-20 season and also at the 2020 and 2021 world junior championships.

[dudacek]

12 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Cozens and Quinn are both 20 years-old, with Cozens being 7 months-older, which shouldn’t matter much at this level. And when was the last time Cozens dominated against his peers? That was 18-19 and he hasn’t since. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m not advocating for Quinn’s immediate call-up. He is what we should be doing with Cozens. Allowing him to dominate over his peers. I think that’s important to him at this point in his development. 

Last time Cozens dominated against his peers was the last time he played against them.

Cozens had 8 goals and 8 assists in 7 games 10 months ago, when he was arguably the best of the best junior-aged players in the world at the WJC. He's also opened this season with 40-plus NHL games and more than 200 games of major junior hockey or above under his belt, at least 2/3s of those in a top-line role.

Quinn opened the year with about 130 major junior games about half of them as a top-line player. It's less about the 7 months and more that he's proven much less than Dylan has in terms of his development.

Not saying that Dylan can't or won't benefit from playing in the minors, but i don't agree that they are at the same points in their development.

Edited November 3, 2021 by dudacek

[kas23]

14 minutes ago, Curt said:

My personal take on it is that just because a player is doing so-so, struggling a little, a bit up and down, that doesn’t mean that their development is being hurt.  When do most people learn the most?  When they are doing something hard that pushes them to the edge of their current ability, or when they are easily dominating?

The Mitts situation was him struggling badly (worse than Cozens, IMO) for a long period of time, over a year.  You could tell he was just overmatched, losing confidence, and was just not keeping up.

I don’t think that is what is going on with Cozens right now.

Cozens is a year older than Quinn.  That’s one possible reason.  But I would ask you, why would you want to bring Quinn up?  He might struggle and that would hurt his development.  Isn’t it better for him to be in the AHL where he can play very well?  Do you see that as best for his development?

My response to Dudacek above says I am not in favor of Quinn coming up. That would go against what I’m trying to say here. I want them both dominating until we become a more competitive NHL or they can make us a more competitive team. At this point, they can’t/aren’t.

 

And Cozens is just 7 months older than Quinn. Such a small gap usually only matters on developmental leagues. I was wrong on the 18-19 season though. He dominated the WHL in 19-20. I don’t put much stock in tournaments though. 

[Curt]

14 minutes ago, kas23 said:

My response to Dudacek above says I am not in favor of Quinn coming up. That would go against what I’m trying to say here. I want them both dominating until we become a more competitive NHL or they can make us a more competitive team. At this point, they can’t/aren’t.

 

And Cozens is just 7 months older than Quinn. Such a small gap usually only matters on developmental leagues. I was wrong on the 18-19 season though. He dominated the WHL in 19-20. I don’t put much stock in tournaments though. 

Citing their age probably didn’t really convey what I wanted.  Cozens does have a much more extensive record of dominating against his peers, in addition to being a bit older.  Basically anything you look at; CHL play, Tournament play, take your pick really.  He is a more proven player.

[Norcal]

 

[inkman]

 

[Norcal]

From the coaches mouth 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Is Pekar turning it around?

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is Pekar turning it around?

Hard to say - small sample size.

The bigger Q is is UPL turning it around?  His game before his last he wasn't a tire fire & last night he looked good.  Had a lot of work, but he didn't really face many really tough shots.  Before that he was literally playing himself back towards the ECHL.

[Norcal]

46 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is Pekar turning it around?

He's got a few points and is playing big mins on the PK. Coach has liked his game so far. 

43 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Hard to say - small sample size.

The bigger Q is is UPL turning it around?  His game before his last he wasn't a tire fire & last night he looked good.  Had a lot of work, but he didn't really face many really tough shots.  Before that he was literally playing himself back towards the ECHL.

He's been night and day better imo but it's too early to tell.

He could get smoked next game and they'd be back to square one.

If he plays a couple more like the last two then I'd say he's on his way to figuring it out. 

[Broken Ankles]

6 hours ago, Norcal said:

From the coaches mouth 

Danny Ainge is coaching the Amerks?